View Full Version : DODGE
camerono
01-25-05, 03:01 AM
Any notice and have an idea why dodge goes down as you lvl a rogue? I know for a fact that it has gone down since I have been leveling. I have removed all of my armor and weapons and my dodge stays the same, and though I have not compared it RIGHT after a new lvl, I HAVE compared my rogue now, and some newb rogue I just made for this testing purpose. I was looking forward to exploiting dodge and nightelves, and having a good ol' time, but it looks like dodge is either broken or just nerfed beyond usability. If anyone has any information on this it would be greatly appreciated.
Dodge - and Crit, for that matter - don't actually go down as you level; they're just harder to use against higher level mobs. The numbers displayed in your character sheet are versus an equal level mob.
Look at it this way (numbers all made up, but you get the idea):
If you're level 10...
vs. level 10 mob :: 10% crit, 20% dodge
vs. level 15 mob :: 5% crit, 10% dodge
vs. level 20 mob :: 2% crit, 4% dodge
If you're level 20...
vs. level 10 mob :: 20% crit, 40% dodge
vs. level 15 mob :: 10% crit, 20% dodge
vs. level 20 mob :: 5% crit, 8% dodge
When you just hover over attack and dodge, it'll look like you went from 10% crit / 20% dodge at level 10, down to 5% crit / 8% dodge at level 20...but if you actually look at the big picture, you've really gone up. Make a little more sense?
Well, it's right in line with the arguement about minimum wage that has prattled on for quite a while now.
Yes, your actual skill goes up. But if it doesn't go up in line with everything else, then it is actually going down in terms of functionality. Using your example above, I don't really care how my overall skill has gone up - what I care about is how my skill compares to a certain level range in creates I fight. My focus will solely be on a range of about +/- 4 levels.
Thus, all that really matters to me is:
at level 10 vs. level 10 mob :: 10% crit, 20% dodge
at level 20 vs. level 20 mob :: 5% crit, 8% dodge
That's all that is really important, as that's the range of creatures I'm generally fighting.
I am not disputing your arguement. I am simply saying it needs to be put into perspective as to why there is a problem. As a rogue, dodge is (supposed to be) one of our areas of interest. That is pretty easy to see the elements of dodge included in the various talent trees.
I know some folks don't like the concept of a "defensive" rogue, but I always saw a roguish character as nimble and who survived partially on their ability to not get hit. I don't know the numbers, either, but if the bell curve is so steep that by the time we get to the high levels our dodge is relatively useless, then something is wrong.
Anyway, I'm just rambling. I posted before about the possibility of going with a dodge-centric build and the feedback did not induce much hope. I've got three rogues going now, so I might do it anyway. I do think at least that the rogue is a good enough class that you can do things such as that without completely gimping yourself, but it would be nice if it were at least viable.
:kroe
Actually, I suspect that a 9/13/29 sword/mace build, with Ghostly Strike, Setup, Hemorrhage, Lightning Reflexes, Deflection, Riposte, Improved Evasion, Malice, and Improved Eviscerate would be pretty darn snazzy - certainly different. Gear would obviously focus on Sta primary, Agi secondary. Goal would be unleashing 5pt Eviscerates left, right, and sideways, or Improved Rupture 3's for bosses. It'd probably work. I wouldn't make any claims on efficiency, but it could potentially be a lot of fun.
Xantium
01-25-05, 07:01 AM
Just think about it like this, as you go up in level it takes more agl per percent dodge and crit. But, as you go up in level you are able to find better and better gear to compensate.
This is also why +% to crit and dodge items and attack power items become more valuable at high levels. At level 60 it's about 30 agl for 1% to crit. I'm much more likely to find a ring with 1% to crit than I am one with 30 agl.
Actually, I suspect that a 9/13/29 sword/mace build, with Ghostly Strike, Setup, Hemorrhage, Lightning Reflexes, Deflection, Riposte, Improved Evasion, Malice, and Improved Eviscerate would be pretty darn snazzy - certainly different. Gear would obviously focus on Sta primary, Agi secondary. Goal would be unleashing 5pt Eviscerates left, right, and sideways, or Improved Rupture 3's for bosses. It'd probably work. I wouldn't make any claims on efficiency, but it could potentially be a lot of fun.
In what would you put the extra point of Assassination?
I wouldn't mind moving things around a bit and getting the extra point in Subtlety just for the "fun factor" of getting Premeditation, but I don't know what to shorten by one to do so. Maybe just Evasion 1, or Malce 4? Or just not mess with it and go with something like a point in Slice/Dice or Ruthlessness.
Anyway, here's what I came up with. Thoughts?
Assassination Talents (9 points)
Improved Eviscerate - 3/3 points
Malice - 5/5 points
Ruthlessness - 1/3 point
Combat Talents (13 points)
Lightning Reflexes - 5/5 points
Deflection - 5/5 points
Riposte - 1/1 point
Improved Evasion - 2/2 points
Subtlety Talents (29 points)
Camouflage - 5/5 points
Opportunity - 5/5 points
Elusiveness - 5/5 points
Ghostly Strike - 1/1 point
Improved Ambush - 3/3 points
Initiative - 5/5 points
Preparation - 1/1 point
Setup - 3/3 points
Hemorrhage - 1/1 point
I put the one stray Assassination point into Murder, because missing Cheapshot sucks. I had also planned it out with MoD instead of Opportunity, and Improved Rupture instead of Improved Ambush, because I was thinking sword/mace, and would (in theory) open with Cheapshot exclusively.
If you are seriously going to attempt that build, I suspect that sword/mace will be much stronger because A) they have better Hemorrhage damage, and B) a dagger build, even with Opportunity and Improved Ambush, would leave you out in the cold without Improved Gouge and Improved Backstab. For being unconservative, I think sword/mace would make it easier to play.
Like I said, I'm not sure how well it would work out in practice - and you'd be at an active disadvantage against Warriors in pvp - but man, the amount of 5cp Eviscerates you could fire off while Evasion is up would probably be ridiculous. ;>
Akilleze
01-26-05, 01:03 AM
Anyone know how the math on Parry works? With Deflection (5%) I get a 9% chance. That's less than my Crit %. :O