how do you beat a hunter? (duel more than pvp)

[Slymm]

there's a hunter trick, where the hunter where lays an ice trap (effect is about a 20 sec mez/stun, broken with dmg), and then stands on it.

as soon as you get close enough to hit the hunter, you get hit by the trap. at which point the hunter runs away, marks, and starts peppering with aimed shots, concussion, stings, etc etc.

anyone know of a way to get past this trap?

[braincandy99]

as a hunter, when I solo in contested areas, this is how I solo. I put the trap down, send the pet on the mob, stand on the trap and kill the mob.

When the mob dies, I run up to the mob, put the trap down (looks like a loot animation), then loot/skin the mob and look for the next.

So, anything that can be suggested for this in dueling would be useful in defeating me.

Just to add to this, while the rogue/whatever is trapped in the trap, the hunter can Feign Death and place another trap (must be a different type of trap) down. In a duel, I might place the ice trap that snares and use it as a barrier/kiting help or I would use the immolation trap which is a free 500+pt dmg if the opponent hits it.

[Gage Kitheri]

Hunter's that use that trap are pretty damn hard to beat in a duel. Having Prep helps a lot so you can use Evasion and Sprint twice. Other than that there's not a whole lot you can do since they usually flare you if you try to disarm the trap. Could always send a worg pup in to trigger the trap I guess but never actually tried it...

[Biral]

Hunter i dueled in Kargath beat me twice that way and told me there is a secret to beating it, but he wouldn't tell me :(

[Jhani Vandolay]

Would engineered pets trigger it? Presumably not the sheep since it's an "explosive", but maybe dragonlings or chickens?

[braincandy99]

pets will trigger the trap. At least hunter/warlock pets will. I would assume that any combat pet would trigger the trap.

I'd also assume those ghost pets from whatever trinket that people have would trigger it too. Free Action potions might break the effect too.

[Slymm]

there's a hunter in my guild who does this in duels, and so far he's pretty much unbeatable to me. warriors have a chance, because as soon as the freeze breaks, they can charge, and get right back in melee range. most other classes also have some sort of ranged options.

ive thought about giving up the stealth/cheap shot advantage and attacking his pet first, so that the pet would aggro and would break the ice mez, but im not sure if the pet would auto-aggro if its not on aggressive. (maybe a hunter can answer this)

ive managed to avoid the flare trick, i just stay away for the beginning of the duel. he'll fire off a flare or 2, but after 5 secs of you being stealthed, he has no idea where to fire them. but disarming the trap is almost a non-issue, both because i seem to have no luck getting close enough to disarm without setting it off, and 2nd because if you're standing that close to someone your lvl or higher for that long, chances are they're going to see you.

the only other option i can think of is trying to jump in, or maybe sprint in, and sap him so that he's stunned as long as i am. doesnt get me an advantage, but at least it takes away his. ill have to give this a try next time, no idea if i can get in and sap before i get trapped.

[braincandy99]

if a hunter is using the ice trap for a duel, they won't have their pet set on defensive (the auto-aggro on attack) setting. The pet will be on passive. I wouldn't send my pet in until I'm at a good range and the trapee has been trapped.

[Slymm]

figured as much. so that rules that out.

guess that leave the sprint/sap trick. ill have to try that out next time we're messing around dueling.

[braincandy99]

thinking about it, a fear trinket (if one exists) would be a viable (if it doesn't get resisted) method to move the hunter off the trap. It could also give you enough time to re-stealth (not sure about that).

[Marbh]

Would engineered pets trigger it? Presumably not the sheep since it's an "explosive", but maybe dragonlings or chickens?

Actually any pet seems to work. Had one dropped right by me, didn't want to move, summoned my pet praire dog and he got froze instead of me.

[braincandy99]

that may be true, but since you can't send your non-combat pet (cats, snakes, c0ckroaches, etc), it wouldn't make it very useful. Tricky to try and get the pet close enough to the trap, without getting hit by it yourself. Plus the pet would give away your position while stealthed if you had it up at a distance allowing for flares to flush you out prematurely

[Gage Kitheri]

Unfortunately sap doesn't work. Ever since the PvP nerf it just doesn't last long enough for this situation.

[Aruspex]

It's an ice trap, right? What about frost protection potions? Failing that, how about throwing Blind Powder and disarming the trap?

[Slymm]

It's an ice trap, right? What about frost protection potions? Failing that, how about throwing Blind Powder and disarming the trap?

hm, you might be onto something.. maybe you wouldnt even have to disarm the trap, but im sure the hunter would just go right back and stand on it again.

[Xantium]

Blind

[braincandy99]

care to elaborate on your one-word answer Xantium? I am not familiar with how Blind powder works. If it doesn't act like a fear, why would a blinded Hunter, standing on his trap, suddenly feel the urge to be even more vulnerable by moving off the trap while blinded? /boggle I'm just not sure how it works.

[Aruspex]

Well, Blind Powder basically makes them wander randomly for 10 secs. To a rogue with quick fingers, 10 secs is a long time. Any damage done to them will negate the blind effect. Never fought a hunter that was smart before, so I don't know if there is enough time to disarm the trap or what. I also think throwing the powder pulls you out of stealth, which then would trigger the trap if you are close by. Maybe it is a combination of blind and then gouge to reduce the time that you are stuck helpless while they get distance...I dunno.

[braincandy99]

ok then that may be effective, but not foolproof depending on how the wanderings work. if it is centered around where it starts or if it can send the hunter off on a vector/tangent.

Stealthed or not, if you get too close to the trap you get trapped afaik, and it drops your stealth when you are trapped.

I've been jumped while soloing using the method I described above and in all cases, the opportunistic player that thought they could come from behind me got trapped. I am almost positive this includes rogues (the most opportunistic of the classes for pvp), since in almost all other cases I track humanoids and would see any dot closing in on my position before I'd get suprised (barring druids in a form).

what is the range on blind powder? I guess that would be the best way to move the hunter off the trap for a rogue. Once moved, a gouge would then give the rogue enough time to gain the advantage in a duel.

Is there a tactical problem with using Blind powder at the very beginning of a fight? Do you have to be in combat to use it? Does it limit some other ability that would be more effective if used deeper into the fight?

[Aruspex]

Blind Powder has a range of maybe 10 yards. Typically, I use it vs a mage who likes to do that nova ice root thing which can't be broken by a spider belt. Blind takes energy to use. Blind makes the victim wander in about a 5 yard radius, switching directions every so often. Blind will also keep you on your horse if you get hit by it :) Any damage done will negate the effect. Blind has a 3 min cooldown and can miss, I believe.

I do think that while stealthed (and dependent on the level of the trap), a rogue can sneak up on the trap and disarm it. Will have to try it out, but if they have Detect Traps up, they should be able to see it.

[Dove]

Best way to deal with frost traps in Duels is (of course) make sure you have Detect traps up so you can see it. Then use either Barov Peasant collar, a engineer pet, or the Worg Pet from Blackrock quest to trigger the frost trap so it gets frozen and not you.

At that point you should have the hunter in melee range (even if their flare detects you out of stealth) and its game over for them as soon as Crippling Poison procs.

[Slymm]

Best way to deal with frost traps in Duels is (of course) make sure you have Detect traps up so you can see it. Then use either Barov Peasant collar, a engineer pet, or the Worg Pet from Blackrock quest to trigger the frost trap so it gets frozen and not you.

At that point you should have the hunter in melee range (even if their flare detects you out of stealth) and its game over for them as soon as Crippling Poison procs.

best way, and in my experience, just about the only way.

you can get close enough to blind them, but they dont get far away from their trap. regardless, they're helpless while blind, so where they go is irrelevant. however, you need to be stealthed to disarm the trap, and blind breaks stealth.

so, you can run up stealthed, blind the hunter, and attempt to re-stealth in order to disarm the trap, but the cooldown on stealth and the channelling on disarm, depending on your talents, makes this extremely difficult, if not impossible.

so it looks like the only option, is like dove said, to send in a pet or something to trigger the trap.

i think its really dumb to have something be so impervious that you have to rely on some sort of trinket/item as your only option.

[tasdamon]

Blind Powder has a range of maybe 10 yards. Typically, I use it vs a mage who likes to do that nova ice root thing which can't be broken by a spider belt. Blind takes energy to use. Blind makes the victim wander in about a 5 yard radius, switching directions every so often. Blind will also keep you on your horse if you get hit by it :) Any damage done will negate the effect. Blind has a 3 min cooldown and can miss, I believe.

I do think that while stealthed (and dependent on the level of the trap), a rogue can sneak up on the trap and disarm it. Will have to try it out, but if they have Detect Traps up, they should be able to see it.

you can sense traps with detect traps up.
you can get pretty close to the trap while stealth without setting it off.
blind range is 10 yards.
blind is on a 5 min timer, same as vanish but can be lowered by talents and of course prep.
it drops stealth when you use it.
it takes 30 energy.


the blind trick can work if you aren't stealthed when you throw it. stealth refresh is 10 seconds by default so if you toss blind while stealthed it will take the full duration of blind just to get back into stealth. you will not be able to disarm the trap. however, if you do not stealth at the beginning of the fight and start with blind then stealth, it should work fine as long as you get in to disarm fast. remember that it takes 5 sec to disarm a trap so you are pressed for time if you still want to get that opener on the hunter.

to add to the initial post though, those hunters are a universal problem. i have yet to find anything that works 100% of the time. however, with imp sap you can most of the time sap the hunter and then if stealth isn't broke you can proceed in disarming the trap and then open on the hunter at your liesure. if stealth is broken on sap then you will set off the trap and hunter will be sapped. chances are that sap will break first. then you are in for a tough battle. i usually vanish at this point and proceed in opening on hunter, however i also have prep so wasting a vanish that early in the fight isn't much of an issue.

if you have MoD i'd throw on nightscape boots to add even more stealth and try to disarm it without sapping. if he's an even level hunter and with the boots your chance of him seeing you while disarming is slim. especially if you distract him first just to confuse him.

[Cabrasis]

From the times where i've dueled hunters, 80% of them use the trap trick. Basically what i do is i have my detect traps on. And wait for the trap to disapate, in the time it takes him to lay another I'll sneak in and hopefully hit cheep shot before the trap gets set. It's maybe a 50/50 chance of pulling this off. From that point, it's all about burst damage. I'll do as much damage as i possibly can before the cheep shot fades, when that does i'll follow up with a kidney shot, followed by mroe combo building and a cold blood eviscerate. If the hunter isnt dead by that time, use blind. Gives you a moment to bandage and build more combo points up.

Aint always work, but i'm still trying to refine the strat.

[LurchOG]

Free Action Potion + Crippling Poison, use sprint to close distance if the hunter has any (this usually only occurs in duels or if they get the jump on you). That's what I do vs all the kiting classes and it works great for me, ymmv. I play on a PvP server and generaly don't duel as I consider it a waste of resources. If you duel and your opponent wants no potions I suggest you specify no healing potions. Most likely they know that rogues rely on potions/items versus specific tactics and if you allow it youre hurting yourself. If you feel the need blind their pet on your way to them or use evasion.
With hunters I usually have more trouble with scatter shot ( I think thats the talent that confuses you for like 4 seconds) but they only have time to do that once and usualy burn it as soon as you get the drop on them so they can try and get back to range. With free action and sprint you *should* be able to keep them close long enough to kill them. Thats what I do, hope this was helpful. *edit* forgot to add for duels drink the pot and stealth during the 3,2,1. Some people may complain this is unfair(Ive heard many times people say stealthing before the timer counts down isnt fair after they sit there and buff or take other actions(such as laying traps), but like I said I dont bother dueling anymore when I can go have real PvP fights and use all the tools at my disposal w/o sore losers and excuses)

Lurch
60 UD Rogue <False Martyrs>
Gorefiend

[Dregos]

blind
vanish
disarm trap
opener

[Tabbran]

If you wanna drop money, use a free action potion just before the duel starts. This will nullify almost every way he'll use to get range on you. Once you take the fight up close to a hunter, he's meat.

No wing clip, no snare shot, no ice trap. The only thing he can do is scatter shot, but that'll get him one sting off before you're in his face once more. But, again, it costs money.

[mikebridge]

rogue gets in close past the flare and doesn't eat an ice trap? wingclip (reduces speed to 40% for 10 sec), scattershot (4 sec confusion), cheetah (+30% move speed, dazed if damaged), get to range, aimed shot (max crit so far is 2301) + serpent sting (98/tic) + pet in (tool tip'ed at 63dps), concussive shot (reduce speed 50% for 4 sec, if stun goes off, aimed shot time) when clip drops, then kite'em while pet nibbles, if they get close, change to monkey (11% dodge increase) and wingclip + scatter again. you can stun the pet, but its got dash 3 (+80% move speed for 15 sec), so it'll catch up.

[Bengel Tyger]

What about Shadow Meld? I know its NE only but for thos rogues that dont' wanna burn Vanish or anything else, can go in, blind, SM, disarm, stealth (if need be), open, dead Hunter...

Allows the rogue to vanish from sight, entering an improved stealth mode for 10 sec. Also breaks movement impairing effects. Couldn't you just vanish after the ice trap got you anyways?

Bengel
NE Rogue
<Prime>
Garona

[Tabbran]

Ice trap is a stun effect, not a root/movement one.

Again, all it takes to ruin a hunter's day is one free action potion :)

[Goldark]

With improved sap I believe you can sap and then disarm. As I don't have the talent I can't confirm - and of course there's the chance of failure.

[Vatrix]

With improved sap I believe you can sap and then disarm. As I don't have the talent I can't confirm - and of course there's the chance of failure.

I have imp sap and this has worked for me, but only of course if the hunter doesnt have the area flared. If a hunter flares the area (and I dont have blind up) I usually annoy him by standing right next to him and his trap without setting it off. They get annoyed cause they cant shoot you cause your too close and cant hit you cause your far enough away. so they either move away from the trap at which I manouver around the trap and instantly they're mine (cripple poison)... or they sick their pet on you at which I use as a method of just getting rid of the trap since it'll break imediatly. It takes a lot of practice, but my boyfriend is a hunter and we duel just about every day so I've gotten used to how far away from the trap I need to be.

[Fuuda]

I'm a 60 Hunter and beat rogues on a regular basis in 1v1.Your best bet is to wait out the trap.Save your blind for later in the fight you can bandage up and
at that point he'll be low on Mana.No mana means no specials means Rogue wins.

[Khype]

My 2cp:
-Detect traps when near a hunter obviously.
-What's the range on setting off a trap and what's the range on distract? If the same then bring up distract and instead of using it use the green "halo" to judge trap distance.
-if you can get to the sweet spot unnoticed you are out of trap range also. From here:
--if he sends pet, do as Vatrix said and trigger the trap knowing the pet hitting you will waste it
--if he moves, circle the trap and get him.
--if he doesn't see you stealthed in the sweet spot, make a non combat pet and circle the trap until it goes off on your pet or he reacts as above. (you have time while coming out of stealth to move a little, either the pet blows his trap or he reacts as above.)
--if your an engineer wouldn't an explosive sheep/etc work?

[Talanatos]

there's a hunter trick, where the hunter where lays an ice trap (effect is about a 20 sec mez/stun, broken with dmg), and then stands on it.

as soon as you get close enough to hit the hunter, you get hit by the trap. at which point the hunter runs away, marks, and starts peppering with aimed shots, concussion, stings, etc etc.

anyone know of a way to get past this trap?

Ok 60 hunter and playing 60 rogue now, and will tell you straight up, I am learning more about beating a rogue with a hunter in a duel by being n the recieving end lol. But things you need to remember is, if you see him play dead again, i would rethink your path to him. That is something a respectable hunter has, a script that makes pet stop attacking. either follow hunter/or stay put and feign death in one key stroke, as soon as they do that, they can lay another freeze trap. The key is thier pet has to be out of combat too.
If you see them play dead whip your mouse towards pet while hitting tab to cycle to pet and hope you can get gouge or even a normal hit on pet. Why is this important? Well you have about a split second from time they fd to hit thier pet to keep it in combat. Thus, making thier 30 sec FD cooldown prevent them from dropping another trap. Usefull info eh? That said, most likely thier pet is on passive if they are camping a trap. Hmm.... Hunters cant tell pet to attack while sapped, trust me i know. So be quick about it and sap the guy before it freezes you. If pet is on defensive or aggressive then it will attack you and break ice immediately. Something was mentioned earlier though.
Sap will not break before freeze trap, at least not if your the same levels. Freeze trap is up to 8 seconds max i believe. Sap is what 45 seconds? Sap does not work on pets, believe me I tried lol, heck it don't work on druids in beast for either. I suggest figuring out the hunters spec. If in a duel with him, you should know already, or take a loss from him to find out. If you get scatter shot, he is marksman, if you get a big mean looking red pet on you he is beast master. And if you get put to sleep, normally on a rogue it will be following a fd he will jump up and hit with sleep shot, then he is survivalist.
Knowing this lets you know, whether his pet is a push over or not. If beast master I suggest expose armor for sure on pet. But, the key is in duel you have to sap him. If your froze and pet is passive, wait out the trap. If he does not stay sapped inspect him, cause he has an item or something to break it. Second, don't attack hunter if pet is passive, bring him into combat. Use crippling poisons of course on hunter and pet. If hunter is beast master, and you got the sap, and not frozen, definately treat pet as a big warrior, beat them the way you would beat a warrior. EXPOSE ARMOR with 5 combo points (thistle tea is nice drink eh?) then build 5 more points and evis or kidneyshot depending on health at that point of the pet. Work fast and you even have time to bandage or better yet vanish. Now he must choose, summon another pet and waste half or more of his mana, or try to jumpshot kite you? But we all know, a hunter with out pet is dead. When he goes to summon pet cheapshot, stun lock, expose armor is always fun too. And enjoy.
Nothing i just said is easy, and takes lighting fast decision making and keyboard/mouse reflexes, but I don't see why a rogue can't beat a hunter, lol my hunter sucks at duels, PVP in PVE environments is when my hunter shines.

[Deser]

Ok...a couple of problems with your strat.

#1 - A lot of BM hunters have invested points into MM just to get scattershot. Especially if they PVP.

#2 - Most hunters that have the macro scripted for FD, passive pet, have the freeze trap in the macro also. You're not gonna prevent him from laying the trap no matter how fast you hit the pet or the hunter. You aren't faster than the macro.

#3 - If the hunter is good, you're not gonna be able to tell where his trap is unless you actually detect it. A good hunter will drop the trap, circle around a fixed imaginary point (not the trap itself) and then draw you into the trap.

#4 - If the hunter is survival specced, he is gonna have beefy traps that are going to be resisted less and last longer. Chances are if you get frozen, you're done cause he's gonna hit you with an aimed shot and multishot which will cripple your HP's completely.

#5 - A good hunter will always have his pet on passive in a duel or PVP situation.

#6 - "A hunter without a pet is dead" In PVP the pet is really only a major factor when fighting a caster for the spell delaying. If I'm fighting someone and they go after my pet I consider it a guaranteed win. Especially for BM specced hunters. Their pets have a large amount of HP's and a large amount of armor. If you manage to kill the pet and then go after the hunter you're probably down to about 25% health TOPS. and you better believe that as soon as the hunter sees the pet is about to die you're either gonna have an aimed shot to your face (which will most likely take the last of the health you have left) or you're gonna have a FD - Freeze trap situation on your hands.

#7 - If you kill the hunter's pet in a duel or PVP, he will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER summon the pet during that fight. It takes a decent amount of time to do that and it can also be interrupted.

#8 A rogue is not gonna be able to vanish midfight in a duel and prob won't get to vanish in World PVP unless its not a 1 on 1 fight. The rogue is gonna have Hunter's Mark on them the whole time to prevent them from vanishing.


I can't help the OP cause I only have a hunter and haven't played rogue at all. I love it when I get to kill some rogues...unless they get the jump on me. I was in STV the other day with a friend killing Bloodsails when two rogues jumped us. They then proceeded to camp our corpses. I was level 43 and my friend was a 34 Priest. The two rogues were 45 and 37. So we spawned in the water, healed a little bit and then proceeded to own the two rogues. And to teach them not to camp our corpses, we proceeded to kill them for about 45 minutes each time they spawned. Not sure why they didnt rez at the graveyard but whatever. We had to stop when they brought two levels 60 to clear us out.


EDIT: And I completely forgot...copious amounts of flares will also be used by a hunter fighting a rogue.

[Reindhardt]

Ok, comming from a hunters perspective, you might as well hang up duels. Straight PvP you stand about a 25% chance, with stunlock, vs an equally geared hunter. When i duel rogues, or anyone, I use the "trap trick". assuming you do manage to get it disarmed, once in mele range, we are far from "meat". Personally, i'm survival/marksman spec, which means i have increased stun resists thanks to surefooted, imp wing clip, which not only slows you down, but has a 20% chance of rooting you for 4 secs. So you disarm my trap, my next move is a wing clip, if your poison didn't proc, i'm allready in gun/bow range. next is concussive shot, also improved(stuns for 4 secs). if Conc shot does stun you, Aimed Shot (3 sec cast) and hope it crits (20% chance). if not, arcane shot for a little bit of extra dps. Note: i NEVER use stings in 1v1 pvp, they break Crowd Controll. here is a tip, if you have a sting on you, the hunter can't lay another trap until it goes away, even with feign death he stays in combat. once the rogue gets close again, i use scatter shot. if i'm able to lay another trap, i feign death and lay another ice trap, this one WILL get you, as you can't disarm it because of the scatter shot confusing you. i back up and aimed shot again, if your still alive at this point, i'll either finish you off mele or kite you for the last few secs. The best chance you have VS a hunter in duels is to pop a free action pot, trigger the trap and keep me stun locked. keep in mind that most hunters at lvl 60 have around 4k life and wear mail armor, so you'll need to burn your cooldowns. If not, i'll come out of stun with about 1/2 life, scatter shot+trap+bandage and i'm good to go. Some classes were designed to beat other classes, warlocks give me the hardest time personally, rogues are the eassiest. Just the way the game was designed

[SomePsycho]

Hunters are plenty killable as a rogue. Yes, you sneak up and disarm the trap and then you need to be fast on the buttons to hit him with whatever your opener is- cheap shot is likely preferable so he can't immediately start to run before you get your Crippling 2 on him.

The only issue with this is that hunters can simply put a flare right on the trap, so disarming the trap or approaching the hunter in stealth is completely impossible.

But look to the new rogue patch to give us some survivability against hunters. Vanish will clear the Hunter's Mark, so unless they continuously put a DoT on you, you can safely restealth.

[SatanReaper]

All this chit-chat around nothing. Just use Gyrofreeze Frost Reflector. Then those silly hunuters will trap themselves :P

[Shaolinz]

The answer is pretty simple:

Don't duel hunters.

Come on now people. A dueling rogue? We don't, "bow and then say go" before fights. We sneak up and take people by suprise. How are you suppose to do that when you ask them if they are ready first...

Don't expect to beat a hunter that is prepared for you because you just handed over the advantage your class is built around. It can be done even if your being aggressive and try to beat the trap (usually you can just blind him and disarm or sap him and hope for the best, its worthless to attack the pet because its on passive if he is intelligent). You want to know how to beat him? Wait him out. If you really HAVE to stand infront of a city all day and duel, just wait him out. Let him toss his little flares and lay his little traps. All you have to do is stand back and /laugh at him. Eventually he'll get annoyed or bored and try to walk off. Then you attack, when he is no longer prepared.

Of course either way if he is good your going to end up in a freezing trap. FD + Trap.

Remember, you're a Rogue. Your suppose to be tricky and intelligent and patient. Use cunning. only use brute force after you're cunning has done its job.