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View Full Version : How stealth works in pvp. Success story.


Grithok
03-01-07, 08:07 PM
It works. It has worked before the last patch. It still works.

I was around the bunkers east of Khal and found a cleric soloing. I was stealthed, stayed far away, and watched. When the cleric started to rest, I started to move in from behind. By the time I got to him, he was up and turned to the left to grab something else. This is before smoke trick, so I turned to follow him. He paused just long enough for me to get ravage in. Before he could react, I got in back stab. His first reaction was to heal so I used blinding flash. Got in a wicked strike, and he was dead.

In order to use stealth you may need to understand how it works though in PvP.

The same as it works in PvE. Sneaking up infront of someone gets you a HIGH chance of being detected. Sneak up behind someone gets you a LOW to NO chance of being detected.

There is one more thing to it. If you are not hidden and try to sneak while close to an enemy, the only person who thinks you are stealthy is you.

Just pretend for a second this game has some elements of real life in it. And one more thing to pretend, stealth is not invisibility. Invisibility is where someone stares at where you are and doesn't see you but sees through you. Stealth is where someone stares at you and they see a bush, a tree, or grass.

If you are just as good at hiding as they are detecting, they are probably gonna notice a bush moving before you reach them. Now lets take a giant leap of faith here. Detection works much better infront of you than behind you. That is almost like you have eyes in the front of your head but not the back. With that leap of faith done, if you try to mimic some bush and sneak behind an enemy, they are not gonna notice that a bush is moving, since they don't see you. If they only glance in your direction, let say they do a 180 turn and happen to glance in your direction, they have a higher chance to see you but it is still slim.

What does this mean? Stealth works, just not like some people want. Some people want to be able to sneak up to someones face, or sneak until they are really really close to someone before they can spot them, because after all, rogues are stealthy, they are trained to get close and not be detected. Well in vanguard, other people are trained to detect stealthy people just as much as you are trained to be stealthy.

Does this make it harder than some other games? Yes. But is it broken in any way? No. Stealth just isn't invisibility. Use it to get to someone, but never away.

Vis
03-01-07, 09:32 PM
You realise that you dont need to be stealthed to sneak up on someone from behind them because they are facing in the opposite direction. Hence, they are not looking in your direction.

But anyway as I've posted before. The main problems currently are:

1. We dont know when stealth is working or not
2. Its too slow. Upgrading to the higher stealth levels is not possible in pvp.

If 1. is fixed and we find that stealth is shithouse (which it probably is) then we can complain about it.

Either way, the way I see it 15% of the population play PVP. So pvp fixes, unless super immba, (like sorcerers were, and healnig is now :/) are on the backburner until the majority of bug fixes are made and higher level content is finished.

Grithok
03-02-07, 05:07 AM
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You realise that you dont need to be stealthed to sneak up on someone from behind them because they are facing in the opposite direction. Hence, they are not looking in your direction.
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You don't need to be stealthed, you are right. But if their character is facing one way, and they pan the camera around behind them, stealth still works in that situation. Plus, you need stealth for ravage, a nice chunk of damage. If they smack you once while walking up behind them not in stealth, you get in combat, it will be much harder to get up to him to stealth + ravage then if they got speed. Plus you will take a few hits before you get ravage off.


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But anyway as I've posted before. The main problems currently are:

1. We dont know when stealth is working or not
2. Its too slow. Upgrading to the higher stealth levels is not possible in pvp.
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We don't know, but we have a good idea from experince.

If someone detects me, they are probably gonna detect me. Bam, I can see my name in the top right under their name. Or they may just start walking a little strangely, say as if they could see me, possibly walking around me, or facing me and walking backwords. I'm pretty sure we know it didn't work at that time. A big problem is when they ignore us, basicly do nothing. They fake not seeing us. That is the only time I know when stealth did not work. Stealth doesn't work if the fight had started or they were close to me and I hit stealth. I know you will be detected then.

As for it being slow, yah. That is just something we have to deal with. I don't see them making it too much faster or fast enough to matter. If someone has speed, I either try a non-stealth rogue or move on to another target. But once I reach the target, I plan on getting out of stealth after a ravage or knee break.it.

Yro
03-02-07, 06:29 AM
You realise that you dont need to be stealthed to sneak up on someone from behind them because they are facing in the opposite direction. Hence, they are not looking in your direction.

there is seriously no way you can do that to a experienced pvper.. im always ready to fight, even if its a guildie walking up to me(im bad at looking at the guild tags >_>)

If your used to wow and played rogue there you should have no problem at all with stealthing here(its pretty much the same, just without the stealth bonus talents and the speed talents)

Vis
03-02-07, 09:47 AM
there is seriously no way you can do that to a experienced pvper.. im always ready to fight, even if its a guildie walking up to me(im bad at looking at the guild tags >_>)

If your used to wow and played rogue there you should have no problem at all with stealthing here(its pretty much the same, just without the stealth bonus talents and the speed talents)

i want a :whatever smiliee

Grithok
03-02-07, 01:53 PM
Gonna get the cloak with +37 or so stealth on it and then try it out. That should prove fun.

Mythdarr
03-02-07, 02:32 PM
Glad some people enjoy stealth as it is.

But for me... it's broken right now and it just plain sucks.

Reason is simple, you cannot achieve higher ranks of stalking in pvp.

Maybe for some people walking at 50% speed is okay.

For me it isnt, the vast majority of people I meet in pvp have a speed buff of some sort.

So for me to open with ravage, the guy has to be either :

A: AFK
B: Resting
C: Fighting a mob


I dont know about you folks but I don't attack these people because it is the same as killing crafters.

Grithok
03-02-07, 04:07 PM
You are right, as rogues we need to set standards on who we kill in pvp.

Crafters, well just too easy so they are out.
People at mailboxes or broker, once again, too easy.
Resting. Yah, they probably won't be paying attention, so they are out.
Killing a monster. Yep, that is kinda cheap, and worse for them if the monster kills them.
AFK. Don't have a chance to defend their selves, horrible thought killing them.

So lets see who is left...

Someone who is running
Someone who is..

I'm only supposed to chase down running people?

RFAlias
03-02-07, 08:58 PM
Honestly, it needs to work like WoW, or CoV, or *insert game with PvP and hide/stealth/invis* Or hell, work like invis. Otherwise we are just slow moving semi-transparent targets. Not acceptable IMO.

versusvs
03-04-07, 08:33 PM
blind works very well with ravage.