How can I get started

[Kambic]

What would be required for me and a handful of friends to play some PnP games? I'm brand spankin' new, and know absolutely NOTHING, but I'm interested.

Wang Pk
Gnome Wizard
Honorbound
Sullon Zek

[Dargesh]

Depends on the system you want to play.
With D&D, all you really need are Players Handbook, DM's guide, some paper, some dice and some imagination. Some people say that you would probably need the Monster Manual as well, but you could probably get away without them if you run some city campaigns and get the feel for the game before investing more

[EZ_Zoogie]

I'd say the most important thing would just be the PHB and some dice . . . newbies don't really need the DM guide or the Monster Manual.

An even more important thing, though, is finding some people you can actually play the game with. If there aren't any players in your area (or aren't any that meet your prefered RPing/Hack and Slash ratio) you can try www.webrpg.com (for Chat Room style games . . . It costs like three dollars a month, I think), www.pbem.com (for Play By EMail games . . . they're kinda slow, but they allow a lot more time to write some good RPing posts.) , or www.openrpg.com (not sure about this link, but openRPG is supposed to be what replaced WebRPG when it started charging cash. A bit more buggy but essentially the same.)

[Kambic]

What kind of dice am I lookin for (like what number of faces/how many/etc.) or will that come with the book/be explained in the book?

I dunno I have about 3 friends who I think would be interested in this kind of thing... though I fear our "adventures" would turn out a LOT more like Monty Python and the Holy Grail then what I think most people come up with...

[EZ_Soulstealler]

the basics are 4,6,8,10,12,and 20 sided with multiples of each for D&D. If your gona do Shadowrun its all about lots of 6 sided dice. I would advise getting lots of dice, why? well first off its kinda slow rolling the same die over and over to get the result, that and the fact its soooooo much fun to drop like 15 d6's all at once when you cast flamestrike.


[i]Soulstealler- Veeshan

[EZ_Zoogie]

AD&D-wise, You'll need, at the minimum, one of each kind of dice, ranging from d4 (four sided) to d20 (twenty sided.) You can also get a d100 (hundred sided), but it's a lot cheaper to use 2d10 (two ten sided dice), taking one of the dice to be the "tens" column and one other to be the "ones" column.
However, dice are cheap, so just buy a couple of each. Make sure they're different colors, so it's clear who has rolled what. It'll make the game go faster.
The most important rule about dice is: Always know where they are. There're few things more aggravating than getting a bunch of people together to play a game and then find out that no one has any dice.

And about Monty Python . . . Well, I've never played a game in RL of AD&D which didn't turn into a Monty Python skit.

[EZ_Grinkle]

Kambic -

Decide if you want to go pre-prepared adventure or Dungeon Master created adventure first. If you want to get your feet wet quickly, definitely go pre-prepared. The only drawback to this is that you may find it hard to truly clear you own mind of these store bought images when you want to create your own world within the same rule set. You'll probably be more original if you make your own world first, then buy some adventures based on the same rule set and mold them into your world. It just takes a long time to really create a campaign.

If you're into role playing over combat rules, miniatures aren't really needed - you can all play the fights out in your head, if the DM has a good mental image of what he feels is going on. If you like tactics, you HAVE to play with miniatures. I only played sans miniatures when I was a kid and couldn't afford them. I much prefer playing with the painted pewter things. You will find you use extra dice for monsters, so LOTS of dice!

Man - this is bringing back memories ...

[Elerion]

Well, this example is for playing D&D: Forgotten Realms, the most popular system and campaign setting out there. Forgotten Realms is a Tolkien'ish world, and has an immense amount of material available. It's written from a DM's point of view.

1. Get Player's Handbook, 1 d4, 3 d6, 2 d8, 2 d10, 1 d12, 3 d20. This will give you the absolute essentials for playing D&D. Of course you can make do with 1 of each type of dice, but the numbers above are, in my mind, the minimum for running a smooth game.

2. Dungeon Master's Guide, more dice, and I would recommend getting the Dungeon Master Screen package. DMG will allow you to get more of an understanding of the game, and is a great tool for inspiration and guidelines for the Dungeon Master. The Dungeon Master Screen will allow you to keep your notes, maps, dice throws, etc hidden from the players, and it also has most of the useful tables printed right on it, so you don't have to look up everything in the books all the time. Don't let the players read the Dungeon Master's Guide for now. It's no disaster if they do, but some things in there are better off kept as a secret. Besides, the more advanced rules in there might confuse them, and they may even start questioning your way of DM'ing.

3. Monster's Manual. This will make it a lot easier for you to create adventures, and some pre-made adventures also require you to have this to look up the stats of the monsters. Most good pre-made adventures will include stats though. This should also be kept hidden from the players, for the most part. You can let them flip through it and look at a few pictures and things if they insist on doing so, but don't let them study the stats and behaviours of the monsters. That knowledge will make your campaigns a lot less interesting. There are few things as exciting for players and DMs than when the players have to scramble to find ways to hurt your seemingly invulnerable monster. It's no fun if they just go "Oh, another Lycanthrope, pull out the silver swords and whack him"

4. Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. This is very nice if you are going to make your own adventures. It gives you maps, world history, deity information, hex grids and a number of useful things. I believe it also contains a small book with minor adventures. This is by no means necessary, but will make it easier to fit your adventures into the world of Forgotten Realms, and will bring more depth and consistency to them.

5. Adventures, if you wish. However there are many great adventures to be found on the internet, including on WotC own website. When the players get more experienced though, I would recommend getting a few of the really classic adventures like Dragon Mountain.

You can buy all these things used if you live in an area where RPG's are moderately popular, or at conventions. I HIGHLY recommend getting 3rd edition (Mostly labeled just Dungeons & Dragons), and not Advanced Dungeons & Dragons Second Edition. I use the latter in my campaigns, but that is because I own a lot of material with that ruleset. 3rd edition is a lot easier to learn, a lot more intuitive (bless the d20 system), and all the new material WotC releases is for the new system.

I have only played with miniatures a few times, and they are not really needed. If you and the players have a vivid imagination, and you are decent at drawing a rough sketch of the battlefield, that usually makes for more interesting battles. However, when 25 goblins storm your players, miniatures are a necessity. You may be able to keep track of the goblins with a lot of sketching and noting, but the players will not. Once the battles get larger than 12-14 persons/monsters (including PCs), miniatures are recommended.

Good luck getting started Elerion Swiftpoke - Retired Rogue Warden of The Tribunal
Entharion Sweettalker - Retired Enchanter of Tholuxe Paells

"Thief? Assassin? I prefer the term ... Treasure Hunter"

[EZ_CogginsEQ]

Zoogie:

OH MY GOD

Thank you so much bro! I am in the same boat as Kambic, always wanting to learn but never doing it. And around here, I have the damndest time trying to find people eager to play.

I used to have AOL and the chat rooms there had PnP style gaming on occasion which I played and enjoyed. Thank you so much for posting that webrpg link! Finally a chat place that supports PnP like AOL used to(somewhat )

Thanks again!

[Fricka]

I was wondering about starting too as I've never played.

In fact I got a request to make a shirt that simply says "d20" but I didn't know what it stood for!

It was explained to me and I made the shirt but now I think I'd like to try a pen and paper for real.

Couple of things holding me back though...

1. No one to play with
2. How much time would be involved? Is it possible at all to play a "short" game?
~FrickaFricka curtsies elegantly...while picking yer pocket.ShanksOff-Line

[Koru]

Hm, online playing sounds interesting. lol, but I'm not too at ease around complete strangers.

Fricka, it all depends on the GM. It can be short sessions or long. I don't think when I was doing PnP that we ever played any chars that went above 9th level. With a decent GM you can easily manage just an hour or two at per session and still make good progress. Err, so long as you don't spend 2 hours buying a frigging horse like my usual group did.

[EZ_Zoogie]

Coggins, no problem.

I just found this, too. www.phonon.net/pub/adnd/
A whole lot of AD&D 2nd Edition books typed up. Don't tell TSR or they'll bite your head off.

Fricka, AD&D (and most PnP games, I presume) are extremely flexible. It all depends on what the players and the DM want to do . . . However, since long games usually are more interesting, they almost always get split up into "sessions," which don't really have a set time . . . My RL group usually played one three hour session per week. Numerous sessions make up a "campaign."

It's not like EQ, though, where you sit around a camp and just kill monsters for hours. Games which don't have stories are almost always . . . really boring.

Learning the basic mechanics of the game (i.e., what you need to know to be a player) doesn't take very long . . . I made my very first character (Gnome Rogue ) about one hour after I got my (2nd Edition) PHB.

For people to play with, try the links in my previous post.

[EZ_Grinkle]

Fricka -

Four to six hour sessions were the norm for my group when I was playing (junior high / high school). It can indeed take a while to buy a horse, or to find a lantern, or any number of things. It depends a lot on the people you are playing with. There is only one DM, so its not like EQ where if someone wants to craft, you can hunt for a while. If one person decides that tonight, he is by G. going to role-play a dickering horse buyer, then the whole group will wait for him to finish dickering, or for the DM to warn him of the "dark stormclouds above, threatening a sudden, non-resable lightining stroke".

If you have a group of folks who are in synch about what they want the game to be and are organized, two hours can work, IMO. In general, expect it to be kind of like a guild raid - usually roughest in the beginning - works much better if you play with the same folks over and over.

If I were going to play with strangers (many game shops have sign up sheets for pick up games) I'd expect to have to play a few sessions and/or with a few different groups before finding a bunch and a game that I was really enjoying.

[injijo]

I just made another thread about it, but I would reccomend playing G.U.R.P.S.(generic universal roleplaying system) over playing AD&D. All you would need is the basic Gurps book and three 6 sided dice. And actually you wouldnt even need the g.u.r.p.s. basic book. You could just use the free online beginner guide, g.u.r.p.s. lite.
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ mojo injiJo-Jojojo ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
The Lord of [B]Scary!

[Kambic]

Ok I am trying to put together some semblance of a "shopping list" so if I am missing something let me know, and if I could get some prices on these things it would be nice:

1 Players Handbook
1 d4
3 d6
2 d8
2 d10
1 d12
3 d20
1 Dungeon Master Screen Package
1 Monster's Manual

and some adventures or whatever but I will worry about that once I can actually have an adventure.

And is it plausible for only 4 people to play, one of them being the DM? And is it going to matter that the DM (me most likely) has never played before? Does it matter if we play different adventures and swap up who is the DM or is it better for there to be an all-time DM?

Someone needs to make me a FAQ :(

[EZ_Icebreaker]

For the original Poster:
IF your completely and utterly new to Pen And Paper style and are thinking of playing DnD 3E I would highly recommend before purchacing the 3 Core rule books just simply purchace the Dungeon and Dragons Adventure Game.
You can check it out here
www.playdnd.com/welcome.asp

Basically its the new D&D 3E basic set has real basic rules premade characters about 14 mini scenerio's all the dice a whole bunch of cardboard Tokens(minitures) a dungeon map and on the back of it a 1inch grid map you can use for custom adventures.

Basically I'd suggest you use this to feel out your friends intrests in playing first explain this is an overly simplified version of the game but will give ya's all a taste for what its like.

As far as online play another option is Kloogle works.

kloogeinc.com/werks/index.html
Only disadvantage to this proggy is it doesn't have big community following yet and doesn't have the gamebrowser feature of webrpg..but feature and style of it for me is the most appealing of the online table tops i've seen.

I personally haven't played DnD since highschool and been itching to play again but I'm just a wee bit to nervous to jump into complete strangers champaigns..somepeople are a wee bit to outthere and kinda to serious with their play styles for my tastes(from reading all the champaign talks on DnD boards) I'm kinda right in the middle halfway between a roleplayer and a rollplayer.

But i can say i sorely miss PnP style dnd with a fun group thats lighthearted but takes the game serious is just the catsAss.
Well at the very least all these 3E books I've bought will prepair me for NWN's heh<G>

Icebreaker Darkmoore
Reapers Incarnate

[EZ_Grinkle]

Quote: somepeople are a wee bit to outthere



oh, man, is THAT ever true!

DnD does tend to draw the odd 'eccentric' now and again ...

[EZ_Icebreaker]

Oh i almost forgot about the best site online about DnD 3E has gotta be http://www.d20reviews.com/

more info on rules how to's addon's reviews ect ect then you can shake a stick at.
The black pages have some great info on how combat works classes ect ect.

Oh and the Creature Catalog is awesome for all those Creatures that didn't make it into the 3E's Monster Manual and the best thing? ORCUS nuff said

[Glip the Gnome]

Bah, Orcus looks cooler in the 1st Edition Monster Manual.

[ShadowCross]

Kambic:

1 Players Handbook
1 d4 - 3 d6 - 2 d8 - 2 d10 - 1 d12 - 3 d20 -
1 Dungeon Master Screen Package
1 Monster's Manual

Sounds good so far.. but you should get the Dungeon Master's Guide, too. Actually, it's even more important than the Screen in my eyes.

About your question, 4 people (incl. GM) is a good size to start with. P&P RPGs are best played with 3+1 to 5+1 (+1 being GM) people, although it is possible to play 1+1 or 6+1 or even more, too...

The Dungeon Master's Guide has a LOT of information on how to "be" a GM, so getting it would certainly help. And it isn't that much of a problem if the GM never has played yet either, but he should try to get at least a basic grasp of the rules (or at least character creation) before he invites the rest of the group for the first game. Skimming over combat rules certainly doesn't hurt either. Of course, the best thing would be if he had a rough idea about the complete rules set, but it isn't necessary.

A few good rules to keep in mind:

1. The game is about fun. Fun >> rules
2. The GM shouldn't play against the players, but with them
3. It's more important to know where a rule can be found, not to know the rule
4. See 1.


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[Kambic]

Oh oh ok, I was under the impression the package included that too =p

[Koru]

5. Don't be afraid to just make something up if you don't know.

In the end playing is about having fun. Fun usually (well, for most people) does not equate to searching through 12 different source books to figure out the 'right' skill and damage check. A general rule of thumb is if searching for the exact rule is going to ruin the pace just make something up. Only rules lawyers like having the exciting "chased by hungry worgs" part disrupted for 20 minutes of finding the exact Dragon magazine article that printed the 'right' movement rates and damage for moving through the Cursed Fields of Death.

It doesn't matter who plays the GM or if the GM has never played before. It's like an EQ skill, you get better at it with practice - only thankfully you don't need to spend 3000pp to get good at it! I'd say swapping the GM around until you figure who's good at it and who enjoys doing it is a pretty good idea. You'll also learn the rules a bit faster seeing things from both sides of the GM screen.

Four people, one of them as GM sounds fine. You don't want to have too many people when you're starting or anyone who's new to it will get even more lost and confused. Four or five is just perfect for starting and really a good number even for more advanced groups. It's a LOT easier to manage a small group of 4-5 than say an 8 man group.

Koru's bare basics list of things you do need:
*Player's Handbook
*One of each of the following dice type, 4 sided, 6 sided, 8 sided, 12 sided and 20 sided. Two 10 sided dice, preferably different color for % rolls.
*Character sheets

You can make do with just that for a little while, especially with all the websites out there to get monsters and adventures from. If you're the player you really just need the Player's Handbook or something that tells you how to roll up a char, fight, and make a skill check/saving throw. A lot of people I knew started out with just these. It has to be noted though that that works better if there's someone who knows the game well playing with you. It's basically a good idea if at least one person also has the GM handbook and Monster Manual.

After that I recommend adding in the following order of importance:
*Monster Manual - Because fighting the same orcs all the time gets boring.
*Dungeon Master's Guide - For all the rules Player's Handbook doesn't have.
*Dungeon Master's Screen - Because looking up tables all the time sucks!

*Modules or other sources for adventures - premade adventures, sometimes published in series. Even if you don't use them as they are they can be a great inspiration. Sometimes just reading then makes you realize that you hadn't even considered adding 'cool thing X' to your campaign. They can also save your butt when you forget to make an adventure for the group. The great thing is these don't have to cost a whole lot, an issue of Dungeon or a print out from the internet can do. Though it has to be said the official beginner adventures are a lot easier for both GM and players to learn.

*Campaign setting books like the Forgotten Realms source book - The wonderful thing about them is that a lot of the work has already been done for you so there is a great 'living' world to jump straight into with lots of detail. Even if you want to make your own world adapting and altering elements from these books can save you a lot of time.

*Class enhancement books - Now we're gettting into fluff basically. Lots of cool new toys in these books and everyone loves toys. They're not at all needed but having ideas for new traps and temples can lend some spice to playing. Once you get to the point of buying one of these you'll probably know enough to know what you want or need next.

[EZ_thal0012]

All good advice. The best rule was already said, your job is to get a feel for what the players want to do and present it in a fun and challenging manner. Many game master play as if its them vs the player in some contest to 'win'. Especially if rogue centric, you can play months doing nothing but adventures in the city, ranging from good ole npc bashing, to politics, blacmail, assassination, working for the govenor etc.

The other most important rule and don't follow the rules word for word. Fudge dice rolls for the sake of gameplay, make quick decisions to keep the flow of the adventure going. Nothing hurts a game more than flipping through manual every encounter. Lastly I hate to coin a Verant term but let the players know they are in your world now Nothing is worse than that one whiny player who tells the GM he can't do something because of players handbook page 17, paragraph 3(and he has it memorized!).

Lastly I believe there is a computer cd with a compilation of dragon magazine back issues. That magazine is so full of campaign idea and stuff, you'll be getting dizzy at all the options to flesh out this new world in your head

[Fricka]

Wow thanks for the responses all.

As for GURPS, well sadly one of the reasons I'm interested in playing a DnD game is because it was THE pen and paper game for so long and I missed out on the whole bit, hehe.

I'll check out the links a little but I may not be brave enough to join an online game with people I don't know.

[Elerion]

I believe SX nailed it pretty well. The number one, numero uno, nummer en rule for any aspiring GM is to remember you do not play to win. You play to make it fun for the other players. But do remember, you are not there to carry them in a Comfy Chair (TM) to gold and glory. Make sure you challenge them, but never create situations that have no way out. And punish them for their stupidities (Example: In my current campaign, one of the players gave an unknown, poor boy in a town 1gp to hold his leather armor for him while he "borrowed" some money from careless people in the street crowd. Of course, when he returned, the boy was gone, along with the leather armor). Mild punishments the first few times, especially with newer players, and harsher punishments for repeated stupidity. Don't be afraid to kill them either, if they did something REALLY stupid (Another example: In my first campaign, a young mage player was standing under Elminsters tower screaming and yelling for Elminster to teach him some "Majikks". After three warnings of increased seriousness, the ol' wizard simply burned the young, annoying thing into a crisp).

Fricka, if you or anyone else want to know some basics about the system, you can e-mail me at elerion@superhelt.no and I'll send you an acrobat reader version of the 3rd ed Player's Handbook that you can look at. This will give you a general idea of what it's like. When you have looked at that, I highly encourage you to buy the real thing. First of all because it's an amazing system and they do deserve the money you are paying, for the sourcebooks at least. And second because it's practically impossible to play a game without the real book unless you have a laptop and good deal of patience

One last thing, about the D&D Adventure Game (or whatever the starter set is called). Unless this has been changed a whole lot in 3rd ed, I do NOT think you should buy it. The 2nd ed starter set was so far from the real version of the game that it only served to confuse us when we got the "real" books. The starter set had board-like maps that you moved miniatures around on, involved practically no roleplaying, and had no interaction with the environment other than rolling dice to kill orcs and gnolls. You are much better off getting one of the official beginner adventures and using that as an intro to the game.

[EZ_Stytch Yapgud]

dice, a players hand book and imagination

thats all u need.

Make the rest up.

imagine a setting....put the players in it... then play.

[EZ_Drakinn]

How harsh a GM should you be?


If the players think of a really good but odd way of trivializing an encounter, that seems like it shoudl work, should you let them do it, or because it would trivilize the challege give some reason it doesnt work.


Is finding loopholes in the DM's game the DM's fault and he should let the players use them, or can you plug up holes as you go along?