AD&D 3rd Edition (I think)

[EZ_Aalex Nightshade]

Reading these threads started me thinking about AD&D again and I recently picked up a players handbook. I haven't played in over 10 years (maybe closer to 15, I'm not sure because it hurts my head to think that far back), but it seems like the rules have gotten way more complicated (I think i was playing 2nd edition, but I'm not certain.)

Anyway, are you current players using the multitude of skills and feats in your campaigns?

-Aalex-

[EZ_Icebreaker]

Aye skills and feats are 3rd editions realm I wouldn't say that its more complex then 2nd really but it is abit more so then 1st was.

Overall I really love it makes for some fantastic abilities to really tweak and customize your character not everyone will be a carboncopy of each other..
and tho initially it seems complex there is a real nice symetry to 3rd edition and skill checks to me make so much sense.

You can (for the most part) make untrained skill checks as well as trained.so for example.

1. I want to try and sneak past these guards guarding a prisoner..i roll a move silent skill check..they roll a listen check who ever is higher after modifiers succeeds(ie are they alert they'd get a bonus to rolles ect)

2.Our group comes across a closed door with no appearent way to open it and detect magic comesup negative. Our big half-orc Barbarian rolls a str check to see if he can bash it down.

3.I want to try and convince this Captain of the guard that I was no where near the bank when that Merchant got robbed.
I roll a bluff check.

the beauty of the system is all ability and skill checks are all D20 rolls +or- bonus's for situation and your skill abilities.
And most situations where you need to roll for a skill/ability check there will be a DC(difficulty Check) rating you need to beat

For example
I know this chest is trapped and i want to disarm the trap.
I have trained 4 points in disarm device..its a dex based skill and i have a 17 Dex therefore i have +4 bonus for a total of +8..the DC rating on the trap is 22 so i have to make a roll of 14 or better on a D20 die.14+8=22 ..min roll needed.

Feats lets you customize your combat abilities alot as well
ifyou want to duel wield..you'll probably go the amidextrious/2 weapon fighting route..
If you are a rogue with great Dex but lousy Str you'll probably want weapon finess so your attack rolls use your dex bonus.

If your character is quick on the draw you'd probably want inproved Init to reflect that.

I can honestly say I have no desire to play a 1st or 2nd edition version of D&D again now..but many do prefer the older systems still.

[ShadowCross]

First of all, it's D&D 3rd, not AD&D 3rd. There isn't an AD&D 3rd edition.

Anyhow, I don't think the rules for D&D 3rd are more complicated, on the contrary, they are much more streamline and simplified compared to the AD&D 2nd edition rules.

But they added feats and a skill system that actually has influence on the game. This might have made the system more complex, but certainly not more complicated. Baron ShadowCross Bladesong
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[Dragynphyre]

It's definitely a different system, one I am learning to work within...it does make for more customization, but there are SO many choices it makes the mind boggle a bit.

The rogue that I'm working on is sorta like a spy, being able to steal information, talk my way into and out of situations, etc.

...Dex, Cha, and Int are going to be my main stats, multiclass mage in there at some point to get some scrying/detection type spells...have skills like Intimidate, Bluff, Diplomacy...

Gets me away from the old hacknslash mentality of AD&D 2nd Ed. where you just tried to max out those stats that would make you a deadly assassin type.

Of course, it sucks when you suspect that your DM's dice are loaded ;) Delissandra Splitshadow, Wielder of the Rapier Wit
Aileena Brellious, Kegmistress of Brell
Yinka Din`Kadoo
Arzza Mojomama

[EZ_Nyssa Rainwhisper]

I play a rogue in D&D 3rd Ed atm and we're using the new feats and skills.

We pretty much do what Icebreaker has mentioned.

[DarthEnder]

I love 3rd. Playing a human rogue with great int actually made me a GREAT rogue.

I have like 6 times the number of skill points than anyone elses starting characters. Is mucho fun when the group counts on me to do anything that doesn't involve combat.

[EZ_Kehvrynne]

'Bout time high INT was good for something besides Level 9 Mage spells, don'cha think? Kehvrynne Quickblade, Professional Damsel of Distress
No matter how subtle the wizard, a dirk between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style.

[EZ_trekrider2001]

Hey Aalex,

Is this the hand book you're talking about?

cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1718590417

Anyway to answer your question- Yes I've been using the skills and feats in my games, pretty much for all the same reasons Icebreaker already discussed.

I'm also looking for a player or two for a small play by post game. Let me know if you're interested.

-J

[EZ_Aalex Nightshade]

Yep that's the one! Man I wish I could find my copy.

Trek, I'm definately interested. Leave a post for me here when you get things set up.

Thanks

-Aalex-

[EZ_Maloscat]

Trek, I'd also be very interested in playing - lost our good GM a while ago, right after our first few sessions of 3rd Ed. and I've been wanting to play again ever since - I've got the PHB.

I for one love the new system... Although there was a definite acclimation period, it's got much more depth than 2nd Ed. did.

And finally, a reason to actually use INT and Charisma as a human!

Especially with that planned Sorceror multiclass... *grin*

What'd everyone choose as a starting rogue race, and for feats?

I was Human, with Weapon Finesse: Rapier, heavy on Charisma and Intelligence based skills - sort of the smooth talking swashbuckler type.

- Maloscat
Level 53 Barbarian Bartender
Leader, Raven, Fennin Ro

[EZ_Grimjaw Badflagon]

I think third edition is great. The classes are balanced, the skills are feats are well thought out. It is tough to exploit the system. Grimjaw Badflagon Retired "cosmopolitan" Thug.
Infinity Watch
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Grimshade of Honorbound
The evil that men do lives after them, the good is oft interred with their bones.
I am a Base-defender.

What's mine is mine, and I make sure everyone knows it. Nobody invades my space without permission - I'd destroy everything I own before letting someone take it from me. I tend to be forward-facing, which is both a strength and a weakness. What Video Game Character Are You?[i]

[EZ_AlyssiaLaterose]

Ah... someone said a 17 was +4... it's not. It's +3. *chuckles* Not to be picky or anything... hehe...

Anyway... I absolutely LOVE 3E. It has made running my campaign so much easier. I have less things I need to remember stat and ability wise... I can focus more on the creation of the storyline.

I can also make a wicked little halfling fighter/rogue/assassin that rivals the dmg output of an EQ rogue (so to speak, it EQ went by six second rounds).

But ah well... if yas have any questions let me know.

~Aly

[EZ_Audrie]

The most interesting feat for rogue is the 2 weapon style I think... Moakes for hell-of-a-lot of sneak attacks!

Also get weapon finesse and expertise.

Once you reach level 11, skill mastery rocks, especially if you have a very high int.

GM SAYS: "Ok, rol a move silently to see if the guard hears you..."

YOU SAY: "(No dice rolled) 24."

GM SAYS: " *GRUMBLE SOMETHING ABOUT ANNOYING ROGUES...*"

[EZ_Topofil]

DD and ADD were games designed only around combat. There was a skill system but extremely poor and with very limited progression possibilities.

DD 3rd edition is a skill based game like most of the RPGs made today. That's why the 3rd Edition gives a lot more possibilities than the previous ones.

It's obviously something the designers did not notice when making the rogue classe though. Rogues get so much skill points it's not even funny. To give you an idea, when I'll turn lvl8 I'll get 18 skill points since I'll put my ability point in Int and go from +2 to +3 in mod (and yes it's retro-active).

I'll prolly abandon the rogue class after 8 though, because it's not funny to be like 3 times stronger than any other member of the group.

[EZ_Heartsong Steelsoul]

They deliberately gave rogues extra skill points because rogues need so many skills - open lock, disable device, search (used for searching for traps), climb, jump, tumble, use magic device...

Rogues also crumple in combat like wet tissue paper if they get hit.

If you are more powerful than everyone else in your group, something is wrong.

Heartsong Steelsoul
Warrioress of the North
Tholuxe

aka Indrani Rivak, Cleric 8/Divine Disciple 1 of the Red Knight.

[EZ_Topofil]

Note that it is also related with our play style. We are not fans of the dungeon hack, so we play mainly (but not only) in cities with limited fighting. I sure get owned by a warrior in a one vs one straight fight. But that does not happen because I have enough tools for it not to happen. I can usualy run away and hide somewhere and then use a sneak attack or set a trap... the city is big, the halfling is tiny If I can't, I just surender and hope I get lucky with my escape artist roll :P


Edit: Sigs just once per topic please. - ShadowCross Edited by: Shadowcross at: 7/14/02 1:10:25 am

[EZ_Cordo Crowfoot]

Quote: To give you an idea, when I'll turn lvl8 I'll get 18 skill points since I'll put my ability point in Int and go from +2 to +3 in mod (and yes it's retro-active).
Bzzzzt... Thanks for playing!

[EZ_TibisHatter]

As far as I can tell from the 3E PHB, skill points for extra INT aren't retroactive, unlike HPs for extra CON.

I'm still making my mind up on 3E D&D. The rules system is on the whole, very good; I needn't go into details, other people have done that. There are some things that bug me though.

The system, while being more open and giving more realms for character customisation, ends up with high level characters generally being far more powerful than they were in 1E or 2E. Also, if you take the default schemas, level advancement is significantly faster in 3E and magical items are far more readily available.

In the end, it's also about the "feel" of the game, and while 3E D&D is a good fantasy RPG in its own right - and I'm really enjoying a 3E pen and paper campaign at the moment, it doesn't have quite the same "feel" that original D&D and 1E AD&D had for me. Of course, this could just be a case of "old-fogey RPGer" syndrome, but 3E is so radically different in so many ways to earlier editions that I think some of the "soul" has been lost.

In the end, though, the rules you use are the least important thing of any good gaming group. The company, the tales you weave and retell again after, the atmosphere - all of these things are more important than a few tables and dice rolls.
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