5 year old question

[EZ_Orcmauler]

ok here is a question that has bothered me for 5 years (yes im that "hardcore" ;O)

anyway i was playing with a monty haul type guy who wanted to make his own bow of slaying.

The regular gm and I (i wrote a lot of the mods, he narrated them as he was much better at that than I) decided that it was possible, but he had to hunt all the components down himself.

Anyway one of the last components was the sinew of a red dragon for the bowstring (the quest had taken 7 levels so far)

so for some reason im dm'n this adventure and i had written a red dragon lair that was to be abandoned post breeding season. Within the lair there was one hatchling/fledlging and a small chance (i think 20percent at most) that the mother would be there and a 5 percent chance that daddy would too.

Long story short guess what? Evil dice strike and we have a whole happy dragon family there to suprise our heroes.

So mommy is not too happy that baby got its head hacked off, and dives on the party-
HERE IS THE ISSUE
I gave mommy 2 claw strikes and a breath off that dive, reasoning that as she dove she breathed then swooped for the clawstrike (not to mention the hell hath no fury issue of mommy).

Unfortunatley this had the effect of parbroiling then slicing 4 out of 6 of the party, ending the session quick like.

so was i wrong in the multi-attack or was i just overkilling my party (mom dragon was around a 18hd dragon)

[EZ_Legna ValSharess]

Well, in my opinion if people get overly brave, they should have to deal with some nasty things.

The fact the whole group went along with someone else's quest for greed (if they were informed of his intentions) then they likely deserved it also.

I think you were right. Course, I probably would not so eagerly walk into a dragon lair without first scouting as much as possible to make certain I was not going to die nearly the moment I went to act.

As for the double attack, I don't think they would have faired too well even without the double, being you still had Daddy in the background waiting to play as well. Looks like the evil dice just wanted them dead, so it happened.

-L Legna55 ShadowsRallos Zek

[Caowyth]

Heh, in the campaign I'm currently in we've learned to fear dragons.

The gamemaster was so absolutely sick of people that could "solo" a dragon so to speak that he made them a bit more realistic. Normal crits don't do much to them, they are massive and have the tendency to knock people around, they're resistent to magic, etc.

So no, overall I don't think that you overdid things. I think your pc's needed a good wake up call that shows them they aren't the top of the food chain.

Cao

[EZ_Swipey]

If the dragon killed 4 people in the first swoop, 1 breath, 2 claws, that would imply that at least 2 of the people woulda been dead just from the breath anyway. Probably the lower HP finger wigglers.

Mommy had 2 more breaths coming, and Daddy too. The party was already dead, they were just still walking around is all.

I agree with Legna and Caowyth, if they didnt sufficiently scout to know what they were up against, they got what could be expected.

The only place I could place you at fault would be allowing random die rolls to create an encounter way way too powerful for your group. I sometimes make too powerful encounters for my groups, but generally theyre smart enough to scout.

[EZ_Orcmauler]

thats what i thought-this had been a monty haul campaign b/c of that damn bow so the breath toasted the ranger that was after the bow in the first place (yaay me) and my cleric who was being played by a friend (booo me).

The following dive bomb took the other tank out then it was pretty much over as all that was left was a rogue and a wizard.

granted i admitted it was heavyhanded, but they knew the risks.

[EZ_Kintire]

Other than my loathing of random encounters it seems fine to me. They had a rogue and didnt scout the dragon? How do you miss a Dragon for petes sake?

[Nenjin]

Yeah, Dragons are the top of the semi-mortal food chain.
While having it use it's breath weapon in a closed area is severe, it's warranted. Never go into a dragon's lair expecting the momma to not be there.

Our GM did this to us a long time ago. We were charging across an open field twoards a small fort, when lo and behold a black dragon just sorta comes swooping down from no where into the middle of our charge. First things first, he uses a breath weapon. We got modified saves due to the open wind, moving, cloud ect...Dropped 2 out of the 7 people, where the dragon then proceeded to try and claw our Warrior and Paladin.

We won, with a couple unconcious bodies, but I liked how even though he was using about 60% of the dragon's potential killing power(he didnt really cast on us), he mitigated some of the damage by changing our saves due to enviroment. Had we been in a cave, we all would have been fooked. Nenjin Darkeyes
56th lvl Blackguard of Val'Kori
Xegony
"Dont open your eyes, you wont like what you see. The devil's of Truth steal the souls of the free."-Trent Reznor

"Stealth isnt a way of moving. It's a state of mind"

[EZ_Orcmauler]

As to the action of the battle, it worked like this.
Heroes go into dragon lair after ranger scouts area (rogue was inside ganking treasure damn thief)

Juvie dragon is there, made short work of (most chars were in the 17's at the time).

At dragon's death dice roll is made determining that mommy and daddy are still around, and are returning, like birds do, to the nest to feed junior.

Mommy sees/hears/smells dead baby and blows a gasket (as if)
Mommy proceeds to rip party a new one before dad even gets there.

[Caowyth]

Sounds appropriate to me.

Black Dragons suck. Collateral damage (ie-equipment) is usually worse than the HP damage. =)

We fought a young Black once and in one of it's first attacks it picked up the warrior in it's mouth, lifted him up, and breathed at another person in the party.

Warrior chunks and acid everywhere.

Cao

[DarthEnder]

Party of level 17s got wiped out in one swoop?

Were they low on hps or something? Or was mommy some kinda Great Wyrm?

[DarthEnder]

Bah, nm, I checked again, and I guess a mature adult could do it if it rolled well.

[EZ_Orcmauler]

mommy was considered young/standard adult.
daddy was mature adult (not that it mattered)
junior was a juvie.

but yeah a haggard party w/ casters that were low on spells, not to mention if you play breath weapons right (older the dragon higher the negative to the roll)=PC barbecue

[EZ_Swipey]

These guys are souding like greater and greater geniuses (sarcasm) They were going into a largely unscouted dragon lair and they werent even at full HP with appropriate spells fully memmed?

Oy!

[ShadowCross]

Well, in 3rd Edition they would have to be pretty stupid level 17s if they don't have at least 1-2 levels rogue so that they can reduce the effects of a breath weapon. And even against an old dragon it shouldn't be that hard to fail your save if you are level 17.

But in 2nd Edition the facts are somewhat different, although it still is unlikely that they all fail their saves, unless of course it was more or less impossible to hide anywhere, which of course might deny them their save...


But all in all, they probably got what they deserved, so no need to feel bad about it.

Moral of the story: Don't kill a baby dragon, and if you do, don't get caught by mommy afterwards. Baron ShadowCross Bladesong
-Teir'dal Assassin, Antonious Bayle


- Vaes Bladesong, Briton Tracker, Albion, Guinevere


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[EZ_Swipey]

"Moral of the story: Don't kill a baby dragon, and if you do, don't get caught by mommy afterwards. "

Or, be resigned to getting killed and eaten for the greater good.

In my campaign world, off on the mysterious side of the continent, there has been a very long running war between kobolds and dragons. The kobolds, who's main gifts are fast breeding, a fanatical devotion to the tribe, and being good at hiding and sneaking, have adopted a strategy of attrition. When their scouts locate a dragon's lair and signs indicate it is a breeding lair, the kobolds send a battallion on a suicide mission. Their only goal is to destroy eggs and kill young. Living through the mission is incidental.