Need help choosing Proc Augments

[EZ_Myriala]

Hi,
At the moment I dual a Dagger of Distraction (type 8 slot) as well as a Sparkling Shorsword (type 4 slot), I'd like to put a proc augment on both of them but not really sure what I should put, here are the choices :
-75 Lifetap proc from MM (checks on neg 25 RDisease, exists both in type 4 and .
-150 DD proc from Ruj (checks on neg 25 RPoison, exists both in type 4 and .

Dont know yet what to put, so I'd like your opinions on this, please

[EZ_gwindor n]

I can't speak to the 150dd with the neg25 resist but I got what must be the smaller version, Rujarkian Bile, which is a 125 dd (also poison check) with a neg10 resist adjust and I am in love with this proc. It almost never gets resisted and it seems to go off constantly.

[EZ_Heka01]

I have the 50 tap proc on offhand Ifir, procs a fair bit, crits 100 with ingenuity 3 and doesn't create any aggro to speak of. At some point I will probably add the 75 tap to my Jagged Timeforged Blade.

[EZ_Zetrius Wolf]

I've been debating this for some time, myself. I consider this to boil down to a fairly easy question: Are you in a raiding guild?

If you are, lifetaps are more valuable to you. If you're not, then pure damage is more of an asset. As far as which type of pure damage DD, I recommend Rujarkin's, since so few things out there have a decent resist check against it. Permafrost/cold, while in a similar league for damage and resist modifier, suffers from so many mobs having high resist checks against it.

Just my opinions, anyway.

[EZ_FelineaEQ]

I might be mistaken, but are you sure the 150 poison DD proc from Rujarkian exists in type 4? I believe it's only type 8. There's definitely a 125 poison DD version though.

That being said, I've bought the 150 cold DD from Miragul and I'm very happy with it. I've yet to see it consistently resisted in any zone. Overall, I would say that cold and poison are about equal when it comes to resists, while magic and fire are more likely to be resisted.

As for the lifetap, I believe it's overhyped. You can expect two procs every minute, which amounts to 15 hp/tick regen, which is equivalent to a fungi tunic. Regen used to be nice, but in PoP it pretty much amounts to nothing. So personally, I'd rather go for more damage.

[EZ_Assling Hero]

Quote:I've been debating this for some time, myself. I consider this to boil down to a fairly easy question: Are you in a raiding guild?

If you are, lifetaps are more valuable to you. If you're not, then pure damage is more of an asset.
Let's do some math here. Since average proc time is 30sec/proc...
75hp/30sec = 2.5hp/sec
Let's just assume you have the same augment in your off-hander and it procs at the same rate. Now you have 5hp/sec, in a 2 minute fight, you gain 600hp... that's not even half a hit on most PoP raid bosses -- and this is not to mention you will get a lot less healing efficiency for the time when you are not getting hit/ae'd, or when healers heal to back to full hp.

Lifetap is more valuable for groupers, not raiders. Edited by: Assling Hero at: 10/18/03 7:56 am

[EZ_Zetrius Wolf]

In a group, I don't take damage. AE damage is about the only thing I can really count on hurting me, and that's almost exclusively raid-content for me.

If I die in a raid encounter, it's because healers are focused on the main tank and rampage tank types. If I die, it's only by a small amount of health. 600hp is easily enough to make or break me in some POP encounters that get close. Your mileage may vary, which is why there's the caveat that this is my opinion, my experiences.

Either way, procs are only about 1 DPS. 150 versus a 75 lifetap is all about flavour and nothing else.

[EZ_FelineaEQ]

Actually, two 150 damage procs per minute equals 5 DPS. I've seen people drool over weapon upgrades that would provide the same type of DPS increase, so it isn't exactly negligible.

[EZ_Northerner]

For perspective, it is about the same as adding that +20 backstab mod from the PoT BP (or the raid I suppose). 5 dps is nothing to scowl about.

[EZ_Vendrengha Noble]

Even in PoTime I'll take the lifetappers. Survivability leads to more DPS in the long run.

[EZ_Qutsemnie]

if two 150 pt procs provide 5 dps as the poster above implies then two 75 pt lifetaps would provide 2.5 dps.

also from those numbers you can calculate the regen since lifetap dps times 6 equals regen per a tick. giving you 15 pts of regen from those numbers.

So all in all the dps camp would trade 15 pts of regen a tick for 2.5 dps. i think that camp is high~ In fact i'll make that trade all day long if you want. I got 170dps. How much of it do you want to trade at the rate of -2.5dps for +15 regen a tick. Ill go all of it if you want. I mean whats that +800hp a tick? Lets go~ this is awesome ratio.
specially since 2.5 dps is LESS then or approximately equal to 1% increase in dps to that rogue at the top. saying 15 pts of regen is worthless is crazy. its a mythical game of eq that i dont play.

[EZ_Assling Hero]

I play a rogue, I am here to do damage, you? (Trade all your DPS for 800hp/tick, go for it! I'd rather trade all my regen for DPS tho.)

Quote:If I die in a raid encounter, it's because healers are focused on the main tank and rampage tank types. If I die, it's only by a small amount of health. 600hp is easily enough to make or break me in some POP encounters that get close.
Unlike having 600 more max HP, the 600hp of lifetap you would have gotten doesn't all go off when you are low in health:
If you are getting AE'd and dying slowly and your healers still ain't healing you, there's a problem with your healers, not you.If you are getting beat on, you are probably dying so fast that you will only have a proc or two go off, are those 75-150hp lifetap going to prevent you from dying?
You guys seems to be missing the fact that you don't always stay below 100% hp. Even on Quarm fights, I'm often at full health, at those times, healthing efficiency on liftetap = 0.

[EZ_Qutsemnie]

if you need help beating those amazing AE encounters then you dont have type 8 slots.
What you do with procs wont swing a guild fight in time. Nobody goes to quarm going "ya baby we got 150dd procs instead of 75hp lifetaps now your going down!" I recommend you think about some other things when your thinking about procs.



Edited by: Qutsemnie at: 10/19/03 11:06 pm

[EZ_Assling Hero]

Quote:if you need help beating those amazing AE encounters then you dont have type 8 slots.
Huh?
Quote:What you do with procs wont swing a guild fight in time. Nobody goes to quarm going...
I recommend you to go back and read what I wrote again when you wake up, I never said my 150dd procs are the break/make of any fight, in fact, I said the heals from lifetaps won't make/break even break yourself in PoP raid encounters, so it's pretty pointless.
Oh yeah, about Quarm. I wrote, and I quote:
Quote:Even on Quarm fights, I'm often at full health, at those times, healthing efficiency on liftetap = 0.
If you need me to translate that in other languages for you feel free to ask. Edited by: Assling Hero at: 10/20/03 4:23 am

[EZ_Assling Hero]

Seeing that you are not even close to being EP flagged, and the hardest raid you seem to have done is probably Behemoth... I don't know why I am even wasting time to argue with you about PoTime... and Quarm . Edited by: Assling Hero at: 10/20/03 8:49 am

[EZ_Canare]

OUCH!

[EZ_patofnaud]

Quote:You guys seems to be missing the fact that you don't always stay below 100% hp. Even on Quarm fights, I'm often at full health, at those times, healthing efficiency on liftetap = 0.And folks seem to forget that a 75 point lifetap == 75 point low resist DD even if your not healed.

[EZ_TaeldienWrk]

Quote:I recommend you to go back and read what I wrote again when you wake up, I never said my 150dd procs are the break/make of any fight, in fact, I said the heals from lifetaps won't make/break even break yourself in PoP raid encounters, so it's pretty pointless.

Sorry bud, I totally disagree with you. There are many times when in raid or otherwise that the 600hps+ (high dex makes a def diff), would have meant life or death and if nothing else, if I stay alive long enough to realize the 600hps, that means I could have backstabbed 10 times? and done constant dmg for x dps.

Now even if not raiding, I solo allot (yeah a rogue who solos) in LoY zones. It is rough and many fights are very close to either me or him, so I fight near a zone and zone if it is him this time.. and stand if I am winning another. I remember so often soloing with dual bloodpoints in days gone by. Back then as in now, I loved the lifetap proc. I won more times just because I was the one last standing. It made me a true believer of lifetaps.

I look at it like this.. If you proc, you are really doing 2x the proc dmg because not only are you hurting him, but you are healing you. Even if you are full health you still do the lifetap dmg. You might not be healing yourself, but you are still doing dmg to him. Because of the low agro of a lifetap and low resists, I would choose a lifetap proc over a dd any day of the week for my personal fighting style.

[EZ_Assling Hero]

Quote:And folks seem to forget that a 75 point lifetap == 75 point low resist DD even if your not healed.
And folks seems to forget 150 > 75.
Quote:There are many times when in raid or otherwise that the 600hps+ (high dex makes a def diff), would have meant life or death and if nothing else, if I stay alive long enough to realize the 600hps, that means I could have backstabbed 10 times? and done constant dmg for x dps.
I don't want to be mean but, can you read everything before you post? I've addressed what you said already.
Quote:Unlike having 600 more max HP, the 600hp of lifetap you would have gotten doesn't all go off when you are low in health:

If you are getting AE'd and dying slowly and your healers still ain't healing you, there's a problem with your healers, not you.
If you are getting beat on, you are probably dying so fast that you will only have a proc or two go off, are those 75-150hp lifetap going to prevent you from dying?
Again, I would definately agree that if you are solo'ing, grouping, or doing some low end raiding... basically anywhere that mobs have low DPS the 75 lifetap would mean something. But even at mid-end PoP, mobs are quad'ing and AE'ing for hundreds to thousands -- that 75 lifetap proc is nearly pointless.
Quote:I look at it like this.. If you proc, you are really doing 2x the proc dmg because not only are you hurting him, but you are healing you.
Actually, if you really want to do 2x the proc get a 150dd, you can do math right?

I, for one, am the offensive type rogue. I'm here to do damage. I value DPS more than regen, because I play a rogue to do damage. Out of all the mid-end to high-end guilds I know, rogues are always one of the last class to die, WTF do I need more regen for?

I am not going to go in deepth and research everyone, but please realize that I am specificly talking about mid to high end PoP encounters, so if your hardest fight is just ie. Behemoth... you win, go for the lifetap. HOWEVER, since the POSTER wields DoD, I think my reply address to him more directly (on PoTime, like I have previously stated), than how uber a 75 lifetap proc would save your ass from Behemoth AE or when you are solo'ing in LoY.

That is all. Edited by: Assling Hero at: 10/20/03 1:42 pm

[EZ_TaeldienWrk]

I don't know bud, but many times the cleric in the group is healing the MA and not paying that much attention to the group. If you dont have a backup healer in the group then that 600 hps could actually save your ass even in a behemoth fight if the cleric just missed one heal.

I understand your point and it is quite valid. The proc gets trivialized according to the dmg you are taking. It isnt always about the dmg you are taking though, and for those fights it is more about staying alive. Many times the mob may turn around just to hit you for a few 1000k and then then turns back around to the MA or to someone else while you evade.

A point just as valid however is agro. DD proc is an attention getter while a lifetap proc doesnt have near the agro attached to it. You have to remember too, that his weapons are not used JUST in raids, but also just in groups and it is never in the best interest of the rogue to attract attention to himself through a dd proc. I used stanos wicked greeves and it is a right click poison that I can apply to my blade. Only thing is, that is pisses the mob off when it procs. In most encounters I can take the dmg when he turns around to smack me, but in raid fights I remove it all together because I dont need thunderclap, or some other named turning around to beat on me cause he didnt like the proc.

I still repeat, for my personal fighting style I prefer to have a lifetap over a DD even if in raid encounter and it means a marginal decrease in my overall dps during the raid.

[EZ_Windaria]

I'd go for the 125DD poison proc.

First it's pretty cheap at 510pts. So if you have to buy it again after you get a weapon upgrade its not that many points.

Second. If the extra damage causes the mob to die before it strikes 1 additional blow, then you've saved that much life by not taking that damage.

Third. It's the coolest looking proc in the game, and looking cool is really the most important thing.

[EZ_kazzze]

You guys are forgeting one of our big problems, DS's i dont know how many times i have had to backoff because i would hit 20% from a DS. a 75tap would help keep us longer in a fight, when healers are bussy. jsut something to think about

[EZ_Sdaasiil Gladeborn]

If you are looking to survive AE damage during raids, then lifetaps are not the right chioce. Get the spell damage prevention procs, they will block more damage than you would heal with the lifetap. Its better to prevent the damage than to heal it afterwards.

If you are looking to DO more damage then get the pure DD proc.

Don't half-ass it with lifetaps trying to do both. Lifetaps ALWAYS deal less damage than the pure DD, and sometimes the heals do nothing. Therefore they are less efficient at those times.

Or perhaps, get one pure 150DD and one Spell Guard 4 on the offhand. That way you do more damage immediately (main hand procs more) and block more damage. Spell Guard blocks damage over time, not all at once, therefore even with the reduced off hand proc rate you should have it up at all times.

[EZ_Agra]

While this is possibly an overanalysis... this may help you decide.

AP/DD is Adventure Points / Direct Damage (fewer APs to aquire to get more dmg is better)
DD/AP is Direct Damage / Adventure points (more damage per AP is better)

I suppose it's mostly opinion, but it could be argued that Slimestone Fragment of Shock is a far 'worse deal' than Silver Flecked Crystal of Agony, given they're both 510 AP.

---
Tak: Warm Emerald Shard (40pts) AP/DD=0.8 | DD/AP=1.25
Effect: Heated Blade (Combat) [50pt Fire Check DD]
Recommended level of 30.
---
Guk: Cold Slimestone Fragment (20pts) AP/DD=1.0 | DD/AP=1.0
Effect: Blast of Frost (Combat) [20pt Cold Check DD]
Recommended level of 20.
---
Miraguls: Glowing Permafrost (100pts) AP/DD=1.33 | DD/AP=0.75
Effect: Icicle Strike (Combat) [75pt Cold Check DD]
Recommended level of 40
---
Ruj: Cobalt Crystal of Affliction (220pts) AP/DD=2.93 | DD/AP=0.341
Effect: Rujarkian Mist (Combat) [75pt Poison Check DD]
Recommended level of 50
---
Miraguls: Jagged Permafrost Chunk (340 pts) AP/DD=3.4 | DD/AP=0.294
Effect: Icicle Claw (Combat) [100pt Cold Check DD]
Recommended level of 55.
---
Ruj: Silver Flecked Crystal of Agony (510 pts) AP/DD=4.08 | DD/AP=0.245
Effect: Rujarkian Bile (Combat) [125pt Poison Check DD]
Recommended level of 60+?
---
Miraguls: Radiant Permafrost (760 pts) AP/DD=5.07 | DD/AP=0.197
Effect: Permafrost (Combat) [150pt Cold Check DD]
Recommended level of 65.
---
Guk: Slimestone Fragment of Shock (510 pts) AP/DD=5.1 | DD/AP=0.196
Effect: Strike of Ykesha (Combat) [100pt Magic Check DD + 0s Stun]
Recommended level of 60.
---
Guk: Slimestone Fragment of Dread (760 pts) AP/DD=6.08 | DD/AP=0.164
Effect: Force of Ykesha (Combat) [125pt Magic Check DD + 0s Stun]
Recommended level of 65.
---
MM: Rejuvenating Bone Fragment (340 pts) AP/DD=6.8 | DD/AP=0.147
Effect: Vampire Talon (Combat) [50pt Disease Check Lifetap]
Recommended level of 55
---
MM: Black Diamond of Regeneration (1150pts) AP/DD=15.33 | DD/AP=0.065
Effect: Vampire Kiss (Combat) [75pt Disease Check Lifetap]
Recommended level of 65.
---

[EZ_KelceKindredsouls]

I'm of the damage school, I'd go with the DDs. Using two DD proc weapons, with Ingenuity 3 and then adding another two procs from augs would significantly increase my dps upwards of 5-8.

Lifetaps do generate, many a warrior in Kunark dual wielded Blood Points for agro. Stay away from stun procs if possible as they've been estimated at 125 hate a stun.