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EZ_Miron Quickblade
11-23-01, 05:26 PM
The Dark Age of Camelot Rogue FAQ v1.31
Last updated: 08/17/2002

The Dark Age of Camelot Rogue FAQ is designed as a place to look first when you want to know something about one of the rogue classes or their skills. As more is discovered about all three classes more is added and updated. The FAQ is always evolving. If you have something that you think the FAQ could use please reply below. This FAQ is not meant to give spoilers to the class epic quests or other rogue related quests or equipment in general, only the knowledge on how to use them.

1.0 General questions about the Rogue classes
1.1 What is a Rogue in DAoC?
Mythic describes the three Rogue classes like this:

INFILTRATOR: A Roguish class that specializes in stealthy movement, hiding, and critical strike combat styles. The Infiltrator is very good at spying on enemy Realms. Rogues become Infiltrators by joining the Guild of Shadows.

NIGHTSHADE: The Nightshade is a spellcaster/rogue who specializes in hiding/sneaking abilities, as well as recieves some damaging magic spells. He can also fight when cornered, although not as well as other Hibernian combat classes. Lurikeen and Elves are the only races devious enough for this path and come from the Way of Stealth.

SHADOWBLADE: Patron god: Loki, the trickster. The Shadowblade is an assassin class, specializing in the abilities to sneak and hide, as well as getting deadly combat abilities. Here, the lithe Kobold comes into his own and excels. Norsemen may worship Loki, but the doors are closed to the enormous trolls and straightforward dwarves.

1.2 Why should I play a Rogue?
There are many reasons to play one of the Rogue classes. The idea of a Rogue is rich with roleplaying options. Rogues in DAoC also get a very unique skill set. Not only can they stealth through shadows but they have a deadly critical strike which they can suprise their opponents with. That, along with poisons, which can coat their blades, can make them fearsome to the unaware.

1.3 Stats
See the stats section in the Poison FAQ. For now I will leave these as direct links to Remmi's Poison FAQ. If he wishes I can edit them in here.

1.3.1 Where should I put my initial stat points at character creation?
See here.

1.3.2 Which stats raise naturally
See here.

1.3.3 When do stats increase and by how much?
See here.

1.4 Where can I find a log analyzer for my DAoC Rogue?
Check out Neill's DAoC Stats Parser or statz0r - the uncompromising daoc log parser, which is reported to not take blocked or parried styles into account.

1.5 Where can I find a character builder to see how I can specialize for the future?
Check out DAoC Catacombs. More specificly their character builder can be found here.

2.0 Skills
2.1 Specializations:
Rogues in all realms get a large assortment of specializations. Nightshades and Shadowblades get 2.2x their level in skill points per level while Infiltrators get 2.5x their level. Starting at 40th when a Rogue gets halfway through their level they get half their ordinary number of skill points, or 1.1x level in the case of Nightshades and Shadowblades. They will also recieve the normal 2.2x or 2.5x at each level past 40.

All specializations have a maximum value of your current level, however it is possible to specialize past your level with items and realm point rewards. Developers have stated that specializing past your level gives no benefit.

Rogues who let their Stealth drop below 1/4th of their level will get the specialization automaticly trained (8th, 12th, 16th, etc...), costing them no points, next time they visit their trainer. Only Stealth is automaticly trained for Rogues.

Level / Specialization
1 Blades
1 Piercing (Albion, Hibernia)
1 Axe (Midgard)
1 Stealth
5 Celtic Dual (Hibernia)
5 Left Axe (Midgard)
5 Dual Wield (Albion)
5 Critical Strike
5 Envenom

2.1.1 Blades

2.1.2 Piercing

2.1.3 Axe

2.1.4 Stealth
Stealth is one of the core skills of the Rogue class and is recieved at level one by the base class. Upon using stealth you become hidden and you will notice you become transparent. You must not engange in combat for 10 seconds and must be far enough away from enemies before going into stealth mode. ( oponents level / your stealth ) gives the ratio of the distance of how far away someone can detect you. Once in stealth mode you will walk slower than normal. As you bring your specialization up you will begin walking faster. Besides allowing you to sneak about stealth also grants four sub skills as of the 1.38 patch.

Stealth specialization level / Skill name
1 Safe Fall I
8 Distraction
10 Safe Fall II
12 Danger Sense
16 Detect Hidden
20 Safe Fall III
25 Climb Walls
30 Safe Fall IV
40 Safe Fall V
50 Safe Fall VI

2.1.4.1 Distraction
The distraction skill has PvE uses only at this time. By using it you can cause monsters to stop walking and turn to look at a sound you made by throwing a small stone. To use distraction first hold down the target ground key, default F5. Use the arrow keys or mouse look to position the yellow arrow and let go of the target ground key. You may now hit the distraction ability and you will see yourself making a throwing motion. Any monsters in the vicinity will turn to look towards the sound. This is a very usefull skill as monsters can only detect you when you are in their forward line of sight.

2.1.4.2 Danger Sense
Danger sense alerts you if you, or anyone in your group, is spotted by a scout mob. Scout mobs, once spotting someone, often run back to their friends for help. You will see "You sense you are being watched" in the upper section of your chat window when this happens.

2.1.4.3 Detect Hidden
Detect Hidden is purely a RvR skill allowing you to spot others in stealth mode much farther away than normal. Rogues, Archers, and Minstrels (Albion) all get the stealth specialization but only Rogues get the detect hidden skill. This skill provides twice the detection range against as compared to anyone else. It also doubles the minumum detection range against all non-Rogues to 250 units.

2.1.4.4 Safe Fall
Taken from the 1.38 Pendragon patch message. Each level of safe fall lessens the damage from a fall and increases the minimum "no damage" height [Rogues] can fall from. The highest levels of Safe Fall allow the thief to jump from a keep wall and take very little damage. Currently recieving higher versions of Safe Fall as you level seems to be broken.

2.1.4.5 Climb Walls
Climb walls allows a Rogue with to climb certain sections of Keeps and Relic forts. These sections act just as a ladder to Rogues and allow them to infiltrate keeps before the doors have been broken.

2.1.5 Celtic Dual
Celtic Dual allows you to wield a weapon in each hand. Only the smallest weapons of each type may be held in the off hand (i.e. mace, hammer, short sword, hand axe, dirk, and stilletto). When using Celtic Dual there is a 50 / 50 chance of which weapon will attack first. From there the chance for the other weapon to attack is (25 + (0.5*spec level) + (0.25*char level))%. Your weapon delay is governed by the delay of the weapon that attacked first. Note, when a style is used your primary, right handed, weapon will always be used to execute the style and then Celtic Dual will check to see if the secondary, left hand, weapon attacks.

2.1.6 Left Axe
Left Axe allows you to wield two weapons. One in your primary and an axe in your secondary. Left axe is signifigantly different than Celtic Dual and Dual Wield. When you use Left axe you always attack with two weapons. Your damage will be halved for each weapon but (25 + (.5*spec level) + (.25*char level))% will be added on. Your attack delay is governed by the average of the two weapons. Your left hand weapon will always be an axe. The base damage of that weapon will be governed by the Left Axe skill, not your skill in Axe.

2.1.7 Dual Wield
Dual Wield allows you to wield a weapon in each hand. Only the smallest weapons of each type may be held in the off hand (i.e. mace, hammer, short sword, hand axe, dirk, and stilletto). When using Dual Wield there is a 50 / 50 chance of which weapon will attack first. From there the chance for the other weapon to attack is (25 + (0.5*spec level) + (0.25*char level))%. Your weapon delay is governed by the delay of the weapon that attacked first. Note, when a style is used your primary, right handed, weapon will always be used to execute the style and then Dual Wield will check to see if the secondary, left hand, weapon attacks.

2.1.8 Critical Strike

2.1.9 Envenom
See the Poison FAQ. Also note with the new Realm Rewards specializatio bonuses on envenom allow you to use poisons up to the modifyed level.

2.2 Abilities
Level / Skill
1 Evade I
1 Armor: Leather
1 Shields: Small
1 Weapons: Piercing (Albion, Hibernia)
1 Weapons: Blades
1 Weapons: Axe (Midgard)
5 Evade II
10 Evade III
20 Evade IV
30 Evade V
40 Evade VI
50 Evade VII

2.3 Spells
Only Nightshades have spells -- two of them.

Single target direct damage spell with a three second casting time.
Level / Spell Name
1 Lesser Dusk Single
3 Dusk Strike
5 Lesser Twilight Strike
8Twilight Strike Single
12 Lesser Gloaming Strike
16 Gloaming Strike
22 Lesser Nocturnal Strike
28 Nocturnal Strike
35 Lesser Midnight Strike
45 Midnight Strike

Single target direct damage with an instant casting time and a twenty second recast time.
Level / Spell Name
6 Dart of Night
9 Dagger of Night
13 Knife of Night
18 Stiletto of Night
24 Arrow of Night
31 Rapier of Night
39 Spear of Night
48 Lance of Night

3.0 Player vs Environment (PvE)

3.1 Grouping in PvE
3.1.1 Why do I always get attacked by adds when I'm hidden when fighting with a group?
In Dark Age of Camelot aggro is group based, not simply single target based, therefore, when a puller pulls a group of mobs, aggro transfers to all members of the group in a sense, the puller naturally being the brunt of it via proximity and whatever arrow/debuff/DD he pulled with. A hidden rogue thereby gains aggro despite being hidden, if you've ever ran from a mob long enough to get far enough away to hide, you'll rapidly learn that being hidden doesn't wipe aggro. On top of that there seems to be a flag within the system that rogues are flagged as a higher target because of being hidden assassin types. It's likely this is an artifact from "scout" type mobs (Mobs who can naturally see rogues from a distance, and reveal hidden rogues like all mobs.) and it's applying to normal mobs for some reason. This bug has no ETA for resolution, and is something you are going to have to cope with. If you are in a group pulling several high reds to purples it may cost you your life if you are unaware of it.

3.1.2 Why do mobs keep frenzying on me and the tank can't taunt them off after a backstab, should I not backstab?
No, you should backstab or perform your later criticals, if this is a regular problem (Which it can be your life if you're fighting high reds and beyond) then you should take steps to rectify the situation. The first is taking a bit of time to allow the tank to get a taunt or two in. In constant multiple pull situations, the time it takes you to run off and hide, and get back, a tank will generally have taunt, it's mostly in single pulls where this is an issue. You may lose a few hits, and reduce your effectiveness a bit, but nothing harms downtime and general group morale than a party member dying, or dying regularly. Your experience bar will be none too pleased either.

3.1.3 I'm setting up a good distance from my puller and following the target in, and it's hitting me despite it not being aggroed on me and I'm hidden! What's going on?
This also relates to the above issue of group aggro and all sorts of other unidentifiable issues. This is also a bug, the finest solution is just to keep your distance as a mob is being brought in. It might cost you a hit or two on your opponent, but it'll save you several hits, and your healer some mana as well.

3.1.4 Why does a mob still hit me when running?
Even though a mob may be chasing after another person when you attempt to follow it and attack, it will hit you back. This was put it in to discourage kiting.

3.1.5 What is "stick" and how do I use it?
Stick or /stick (How it is applied) is an auto follow command, but keeps you within melee range at all times of your target presuming your movement allows it (IE, if you're hidden, your target is gonna outrun you if it's moving quickly.) This is stick as the title applies, you can strafe and maneuver for your critical to your heart's desire. It has been recently patched to have a small range associated with it. Use stick to your advantage.

3.1.6 Are poisons useless in groups?
Yes and no. In small groups, up to four mayhap, the dot poison is particularly useful if you're fighting high cons, the extra punch can make or break a battle, and due to a battle's long length due to your small group, your dot gets to run its full length, sometimes you may be able to get off as many as two. The crippling poison can also be mildly useful, again, in a small group the benefits become more obvious.

But even in large groups some poisons can still be useful. The snare poison, for example, is heavily overlooked. A wise rogue always has a blade with snare poison on it, always. If you are the last alive and your healer is being chased down, whip out a slow delay weapon (Yes slow) and smack that mob. This could be a grey broadsword and you're specializing in piercing/thrust, it doesn't matter. The goal is not to damage the mob, it's to hit it with the poison, the low delay gives you more control over breaking the snare, as hitting it again will wear off the poison's effects. Once the poison kicks in, it's now snared and your healer will be able to get away. This can be the difference of your group spending 20 minutes on horse rides or getting a bunch of free rezzes. Particularly adept groups can adapt the snare poison as a form of crowd control as well. Since a hidden rogue will almost always get aggro to begin with, bring the add to you, and smack it with a snare poison. Then proceed to kite it around for a wee bit (It is only a wee bit, but better than nothing) while the rest of your group smacks the primary target.

In large groups tearing through purples every 20 seconds, your poisons aren't going to be as useful. But in small groups doing single targets multiple spell lines and styles (Those which are Area Effect based) have no purpose as well. As in all abilities, envenom has it's profoundly useful spots and it's minimally useful spots.
3.2 Soloing in PvE

3.3 Endurance and Combat Styles
3.3.1 Regenerating Endurance
Get in the habit of always sitting after a mob dies. A rogue in particular needs all the stamina they can get. There is nothing worse than chatting and forgetting to sit and having your puller bring back three mobs and you're half fatigue. In the frontier this isn't such a bright idea, and you'll need to fight more conservatively to preserve your stamina.

3.3.2 Take advantage of all your combat styles
Do not be lazy and use a single style bank. By the time you are 20 you will have more styles than you know what to do with. Set up multiple hotkey banks for multiple situations. In an ideal group you will never need your taunt. But things are rarely ideal, sometimes you will need that taunt to get it off of a healer. Having it in a nearby bank will make things easier. The same goes for styles you previously thought outdated, Pincer seems much more desirable when you don't have enough stamina to perform a garrote but really need a little extra punch. Shift and the number of the hotkey bank will allow you to toggle between your hotkey banks as easily as you dance through your styles.

4.0 Realm vs Realm (RvR)
4.1 Grouping in RvR

4.2 Soloing in RvR

4.3 Endurance and Combat Styles

4.4 RvR Tactics

Contributors:
Miron Quickblade
Remmi
Virvallen/Hubris Blackbane
Gron Ghewarth
Kezzek
Devils
RagingIdiot
Dither
Winderpane
Eyes CBH
Squink
Tinkerman11 Edited by: Miron Quickblade at: 8/17/02 9:41:14 pm

EZ_Virvallen
11-28-01, 01:13 PM
For 3.1 some grouping info:

Q: Why do I always get attacked by adds when I'm hidden when fighting with a group?

A: In Dark Age of Camelot aggro is group based, not simply single target based, therefore, when a puller pulls a group of mobs, aggro transfers to all members of the group in a sense, the puller naturally being the brunt of it via proximity and whatever arrow/debuff/DD he pulled with. A hidden rogue thereby gains aggro despite being hidden, if you've ever ran from a mob long enough to get far enough away to hide, you'll rapidly learn that being hidden doesn't wipe aggro. On top of that there seems to be a flag within the system that rogues are flagged as a higher target because of being hidden assassin types. It's likely this is an artifact from "scout" type mobs (Mobs who can naturally see rogues from a distance, and reveal hidden rogues like all mobs.) and it's applying to normal mobs for some reason. Irregardless, this bug has no ETA for resolution, and is something you are going to have to cope with. If you are in a group pulling several high reds to purples it may cost you your life if you are unaware of it.

Q: Why do mobs keep frenzying on me and the tank can't taunt them off after a backstab, should I not backstab?

A: No, you should backstab or perform your later criticals, if this is a regular problem (Which it can be your life if you're fighting high reds and beyond) then you should take steps to rectify the situation. The first is taking a bit of time to allow the tank to get a taunt or two in. In constant multiple pull situations, the time it takes you to run off and hide, and get back, a tank will generally have taunt, it's mostly in single pulls where this is an issue. You may lose a few hits, and reduce your effectiveness a bit, but nothing harms downtime and general group morale than a party member dying, or dying regularly. Your experience bar will be none too pleased either.

Q: I'm setting up a good distance from my puller and following the target in, and it's hitting me despite it not being aggroed on me and I'm hidden! What's going on?

A: This also relates to the above issue of group aggro and all sorts of other unidentifiable issues. This is also a bug, the finest solution is just to keep your distance as a mob is being brought in. It might cost you a hit or two on your opponent, but it'll save you several hits, and your healer some mana as well.

Q: What is "stick" and how do I use it?
A: Stick or /stick (How it is applied) is an auto follow command, but keeps you within melee range at all times of your target presuming your movement allows it (IE, if you're hidden, your target is gonna outrun you if it's moving quickly.) This is stick as the title applies, you can strafe and maneuver for your critical to your heart's desire. It has been recently patched to have a small range associated with it. Use stick to your advantage.

Q: Are poisons useless in groups?
A: Yes and no. In small groups, up to four mayhap, the dot poison is particularly useful if you're fighting high cons, the extra punch can make or break a battle, and due to a battle's long length due to your small group, your dot gets to run its full length, sometimes you may be able to get off as many as two. The crippling poison can also be mildly useful, again, in a small group the benefits become more obvious.

But even in large groups some poisons can still be useful. The snare poison, for example, is heavily overlooked. A wise rogue always has a blade with snare poison on it, always. If you are the last alive and your healer is being chased down, whip out a slow delay weapon (Yes slow) and smack that mob. This could be a grey broadsword and you're specializing in piercing/thrust, it doesn't matter. The goal is not to damage the mob, it's to hit it with the poison, the low delay gives you more control over breaking the snare, as hitting it again will wear off the poison's effects. Once the poison kicks in, it's now snared and your healer will be able to get away. This can be the difference of your group spending 20 minutes on horse rides or getting a bunch of free rezzes. Particularly adept groups can adapt the snare poison as a form of crowd control as well. Since a hidden rogue will almost always get aggro to begin with, bring the add to you, and smack it with a snare poison. Then proceed to kite it around for a wee bit (It is only a wee bit, but better than nothing) while the rest of your group smacks the primary target.

In large groups tearing through purples every 20 seconds, your poisons aren't going to be as useful. But in small groups doing single targets multiple spell lines and styles (Those which are Area Effect based) have no purpose as well. As in all abilities, envenom has it's profoundly useful spots and it's minimally useful spots.

General tips:

-Get in the habit of always sitting after a mob dies. A rogue in particular needs all the stamina they can get. There is nothing worse than chatting and forgetting to sit and having your puller bring back three mobs and you're half fatigue. In the frontier this isn't such a bright idea, and you'll need to fight more conservatively to preserve your stamina.

-Do not be lazy and use a single style bank. By the time you are 20 you will have more styles than you know what to do with. Set up multiple hotkey banks for multiple situations. In an ideal group you will never need your taunt. But things are rarely ideal, sometimes you will need that taunt to get it off of a healer. Having it in a nearby bank will make things easier. The same goes for styles you previously thought outdated, Pincer seems much more desirable when you don't have enough stamina to perform a garrote but really need a little extra punch. Shift and the number of the hotkey bank will allow you to toggle between your hotkey banks as easily as you dance through your styles.



~~
More to come later.

EZ_Gron Ghewarth
12-03-01, 03:06 PM
Excellent guide, keep up the good work!

One minor correction though. In section 3.1.1, second to last sentence, "Irregardless" is not a word, should use either "Regardless" or "Irrespective".

Grern 5th season Nightshade of House Artegal
Guinevere Server Edited by: Gron Ghewarth at: 12/3/01 4:07:41 pm

Kezzek
12-05-01, 03:32 PM
Kind of related, but important nonetheless:

Q: Where can I find a log analyzer for my DAoC rogue?

A: http://mathcs.holycross.edu/~dshettle/

EZ_Charrd
12-08-01, 04:00 AM
Nothing to do with theif class, but irregardless is a word. Looked it up myself after being annoyed one to many times with people using it. Its in dictionary.

-Charrd

EZ_Sagraves2
12-10-01, 06:27 AM
So is "ain't"


*shrug*

EZ_Noyl
12-10-01, 11:26 AM
Irregardless is indeed in the dictionary. The dictionary also declares it nonstandard and its usage as: "irregardless, a double negative, is never acceptable except when the intent is clearly humorous."

Noyl

EZ_RagingIdiot
12-10-01, 05:09 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
3.1.3 I'm setting up a good distance from my puller and following the target in, and it's hitting me despite it not being aggroed on me and I'm hidden! What's going on?
This also relates to the above issue of group aggro and all sorts of other unidentifiable issues. This is also a bug, the finest solution is just to keep your distance as a mob is being brought in. It might cost you a hit or two on your opponent, but it'll save you several hits, and your healer some mana as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

This was designed to stop fear kiting. It should not work while you are hidden but that is a separate bug in itself. The idea was that if a mob is feared you cannot just chase it and attack it for free hits as is common in EQ. My guess is that since you are part of the group you get agro and due to the see through hidden bug they can attack you as if you were kiting them.

EZ_Devils Dogs
12-11-01, 01:09 PM
Left Axe Description
The skill level in Left Axe determines how much damage you do with each weapon while you are wielding weapons in both hands.

When you use weapons in both hands via the left axe skill, the following happen:

• You hit with each weapon every time you hit an enemy
• You automatically do half damage with each weapon
• You do 15% more damage per round (7.5% per weapon)
• Half your skill level is added as a % bonus
• The attack delay is determined by an average of the two weapons

So, if you have a 30 skill in left axe, your two weapons will hit every round for half damage each, plus 15% more base damage, plus 15% (30 / 2) more for spec damage.

Your left hand weapon will always be an axe, so your base damage will be governed by the axe skill. In effect, Left Axe works similarily to Albion and Hibernia's two-handed weapon skills. ================================================== ==========================================
UPDATE Base damage is now 25%. Also Left Ax damage is based on the left ax skill only. Sword/ax combos will work just fine now.
Edited by: Devils Dogs at: 12/18/01 9:34:36 pm

EZ_Miron Quickblade
12-11-01, 03:30 PM
With the new patch today a bunch of stuff has been added. Can anyone confirm that the new base percent is 25%. I also want to check out safefall a bit then I'll edit all this new information in! -Miron Quickblade
Officer of Blade Sworn
"A man that is born falls into a dream like a man who falls into the sea. If he tries to climb out into the air as inexperienced endeavour to do, he drowns. The way is to the destructive element submit yourself, and with exertions of your hands and feet in the water make the deep, deep sea keep you up." - Conrad

EZ_Yver
12-14-01, 08:07 AM
On a level 6 Nightshade, on all the attacks from level 5.5 to 6.2, I Dual Wielded both weapons at the same time 22%.

No points into Celtic Dual
.

two matching player crafted daggers, orange con.

Ill keep testing Edited by: Yver at: 12/14/01 9:08:14 am

EZ_Zadok Baccarat
12-14-01, 03:06 PM
Apparently, as it currently stands, Safefall is being based on character level, not Stealth skill level.

EZ_velkonn
12-23-01, 07:47 AM
Hmm Nice Guide

EZ_qalnor
12-29-01, 10:10 PM
'Irregardless is indeed in the dictionary. The dictionary also declares it nonstandard and its usage as: "irregardless, a double negative, is never acceptable except when the intent is clearly humorous."'

I have no idea where you pulled that 'definition' from.. Whoever wrote that had a severe case of eggheaditis, I can't believe someone would be so brazen in their nerdiness as to declare a prefix/suffix double negative 'funny'.

The dictionaries I referred to consider it a legitimate word, but one which has not found acceptance, particularly in writing. Websters quips: 'The most frequently repeated remark about it is that "there is no such word." There is such a word, however.'

It does, however, make the recommendation to use regardless instead.. Which is probably a good suggestion, as the word seems to generate conversations such as these.

EZ_LargePortion
01-03-02, 10:44 AM
If your going to play a rouge, make sure you dont play a midguard shadowblade, this advice i give free of charge and will tell you why now:

Midguard is MEANT to be the melee realm of the 3 but we can't melee for toffee, our range attack is laughable, and the fact we have 5 skills to train in is also a nightmare.....

The best midguard class to play is a cleric/healer, my twink has now out leveled my Blade.

Dont get me wrong Blade are good in rvr ( i have 20k in the space of a month ) but can only solo blue non tank classes

Good luck

Portion-Shadowblade extrodinare. Come PL me u sucker's

EZ_Winderpane
01-14-02, 10:24 AM
"2.1.7 Dual Weild

Dual Weild allows you to weild a weapon in each hand."

"wield" please :)

EZ_Dither DAoC
01-23-02, 05:01 PM
Safe Fall - Here is the problem, I *think*...

I asked about 50 rogues on this, and the only hting that seems to make sense is, when safe fall was implemented, it was based on character level, but it raises based on stealth level. so, for anyone that starts a rogue now, the stealth tree is this

5 - Distraction
8 - Danger Sense
10 - Safe Fall I
16 - Detect Hidden
20 - Safe Fall II
25 - Climb
30 - Safe Fall III
40 - Safe Fall IV
50 - Safe Fall V Dither Disgustipated
Kobold Shadowblade
Ragnarok, Palomides

EZ_Moe Drippins
01-23-02, 07:56 PM
"Whoever wrote that had a severe case of eggheaditis, I can't believe someone would be so brazen in their nerdiness as to declare a prefix/suffix double negative 'funny'."

They didn't say it WAS funny, they said it was to be used when the intent was humorous.

From dictionary.com.

Usage Note: Irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be correct usage in formal style, when in fact it is used chiefly in nonstandard speech or casual writing. Coined in the United States in the early 20th century, it has met with a blizzard of condemnation for being an improper yoking of irrespective and regardless and for the logical absurdity of combining the negative ir- prefix and -less suffix in a single term. Although one might reasonably argue that it is no different from words with redundant affixes like debone and unravel, it has been considered a blunder for decades and will probably continue to be so.


The Oxford dictionary, a source which might be considered to be knowledgable of the English language, has no entry.

EZ_Miron Quickblade
01-24-02, 09:01 AM
Dither, I think you are right that it was originaly given based on level. I was 35 or 36 and got Safe Fall III. My stealth was mid 20s at the time. My stealth is now 32 and I'm 42... I still have Safe Fall III. It's hard to say when it gets upgraded when nothing is happening as you level and spec stealth!

Squink, is this in the Nightshade report? -Miron Quickblade, searching...
Officer of Blade Sworn
"A man that is born falls into a dream like a man who falls into the sea. If he tries to climb out into the air as inexperienced endeavor to do, he drowns. The way is to the destructive element submit yourself, and with exertions of your hands and feet in the water make the deep, deep sea keep you up." - Conrad

EZ_Eyes CBH
01-27-02, 06:03 PM
Now call me a newbie, but I have a problem with this which needs clarifying:

Quote: Your chance of being detected is ( Your stealth specialization / oponents level ).

Lets look at some figures:

Your stealth: 1
Enemy lvl: 50
Chance at being detected: 1/50, or 2% (ie very low)

Your stealth: 50
Enemy lvl: 1
Chance at being detected: 50, or 5,000% (ie more often than always)

Your stealth: 15
Enemy lvl: 40
Chance at being detected: 3/8 or around 38%)

I'm sorry, but this seems rather odd. Surely if you have the highest stealth possible and someone's lvl 1 they aren't gonna detect you in a million years? And if you're a complete newbie a lvl 50 person will see you from a million miles away?

The other way round dont really work too well either. Or am I just making myself confused?

Anyway, some of you may know the European version of DAoC goes live next week. After playing in the beta and reading stuff on the net this is my idea for a lurikeen shade, was wondering if anyone had some input before I start wasting my spec points

+10 STR
+10 CON
+5 QUI
+5 DEX

Stealth: 40
Piercing: 39
Crit Strike: 39
Envenom: 30
Celtic Dual: 16

Idea is to be more of an assasin who does lots of damage fast. The idea behind having a bit of celtic dual was so i can have 2 poisons going at once - is ther any use in that? might I as well just use 2 weaps and have dual at 1, will I still hit with my right hand as often as my left? certainly seems so... Edited by: Eyes CBH at: 1/27/02 7:54:06 pm

EZ_Dither DAoC
01-27-02, 11:40 PM
eyes, its pretty close to oppenents level/your stealth. If you have stealth 1 and they are lvl 50, their odds are 50/1 to see you, and at a really large distance. I think the person who made the quote wasn't being mathematical though, they were illustrating that it is the opponents level that is the biggest factor in being detected, n9ot the stealth skill or the assassins level. Dither Disgustipated
Kobold Shadowblade
Ragnarok, Palomides

EZ_Eyes CBH
01-28-02, 05:48 AM
Ahh, so it's more a ratio -

opponents level : your stealth

makes more sense

EZ_Miron Quickblade
01-30-02, 07:49 AM
Thanks for pointing this out. It should be ( oponents level / your stealth ) and it shouldn't be called a percentage. The description should be rephrased. This is a ratio and is proportional to the maxiumum distance that an oponent can see you. When your stealth approaches about 5% less than an oponents level, them finding you is just about impossible because of the detect hidden code, even if they are a Rogue as well. -Miron Quickblade, searching...
Officer of Blade Sworn
"A man that is born falls into a dream like a man who falls into the sea. If he tries to climb out into the air as inexperienced endeavor to do, he drowns. The way is to the destructive element submit yourself, and with exertions of your hands and feet in the water make the deep, deep sea keep you up." - Conrad

EZ_dghamilton
02-19-02, 12:41 AM
www.webster.com/cgi-bin/d...regardless

EZ_Quaysh
02-26-02, 12:53 PM
Could use some clarification here:

Quote: 2.1.5 Celtic Dual
Celtic Dual allows you to wield a weapon in each hand. When using Celtic Dual there is a 50 / 50 chance of which weapon will attack first. From there the chance for the other weapon to attack is ( 25 + ( Dual_Const * Celtic Dual Skill ) )%. Dual_Const is a constant value that begins around .5 and increases as your Celtic dual specialization increases.

and

Quote: 2.1.7 Dual Wield
Dual Wield allows you to wield a weapon in each hand. When using Dual Wield there is a 50 / 50 chance of which weapon will attack first. From there the chance for the other weapon to attack is ( 25 + ( Dual_Const * Dual Wield Skill / 2 ) )%. Dual_Const is a constant value that begins around .5 and increases as your Dual Wield specialization increases.

From this it would seem that Dual Wield has a smaller chance of happening because it has the /2 in the formula and CD does not. Is this true?

Also, if we plug in a CD skill of 25 to the formula we get ( 25 + ( (.5 to 1 presumably) * 25) ) = 37.5% to 50%. Is it really so seldom that we get the second hit in? I will have to go check my logs. It would seem that we could get that second hit at most 75% of the time (not counting items taking the skill over 50, if such a thing even exists), or 50% for dual wield. 75% aint bad, but I have never heard of anyone fully specing in CD or DW.

So now I am wondering if it is really worth it. I will have to look at the styles I guess.

EZ_Dither DAoC
02-26-02, 01:49 PM
Squink posted this as the newest CD/DW equation. these two skills work exactly the same way.

Quote:
There was some more extensive testing done using a larger # of people/logs and the formula that more accurately reflects the new CD % is 25 + (0.5*spec level) + (0.25*char level)


i added parenthesis just to make sure you guys remember you order of operations when doing hte formula 8P

EZ_rmullan
03-07-02, 05:54 PM
Eggheadedness? Correcting other peoples english, after they went through all the trouble of writing such a wonderful document, is rude and in bad taste.

Lets keep the english lesson in school, and try to be constructive here.

EZ_othercents
04-04-02, 04:17 PM
I have a question about this statment:

Rogues who let their Stealth drop below 1/4th of their level will get the specialization automaticly trained (8th, 12th, 16th, etc...), costing them no points, next time they visit their trainer. Only Stealth is automaticly trained for Rogues.

Does that mean that we should not up the Stealth skill and just save the points for more important skills since Stealth will automatically be trained and not cost any points or am I totally wrong?
Edited by: othercents at: 4/4/02 5:18:14 pm

EZ_Quaysh
04-05-02, 01:08 PM
No,
you would start putting points in stealth eventually. Basically when you autotrain, you are putting it off as long as you can stand and being rewarded by saving a few points which can be spent elsewhere. But you wouldnt want to set foot on a RvR zone with only 1/4 spec stealth, you would probably have your ass handed to you on a regular basis.
Most people who autotrain, myself included, have a plan in mind with their template, and decide to autotrain up until a certain level, and then start training it.

EZ_othercents
04-08-02, 07:46 AM
Yea that is what I was thinking since stealth is not needed especially in the first few levels. If you just kept the training points and not trained stealth then you can train it higher later on for less points. Thanks for the info.

EZ_Servo
04-27-02, 12:59 AM
FYI, it's been reported on other boards that it's the difference between the stealth level (person who's stealthed) and enemy that is important. The formula's a pain in the ass, but basically if the enemy's character level is 5 or more levels above your stealth, don't get too close :P

EZ_Renac
05-31-02, 01:18 PM
Fear kiting? What class has can "fear" a mob?
Renac, Hearthguard's Level 41 Troll Skald on Lancelot
Hubris 11 Troll Shaman
Renak 16 Dwarven Hunter
Renack 18 Norse Shadowblade
Hearthguard homepage
>
I took the What Mythological Creature Are you? I'm a Centaur test by !

EZ_AGLuhowy
06-18-02, 12:20 PM
Not too shabby.

EZ_Ishofthenight
06-20-02, 11:13 AM
Quick question:
If I had a 50 stealth and had items that added another 5 to it, does it make a difference? Can you get passed 50 stealth or is 50 the cap period?

Also, not sure if anyone has spells to "fear kite" since it's pretty much an EQ term, but I think that it's to deter any type of "kiting" such as pet casters nuking as much as they could to add aggro, then just running around while their pet beats on it. Ishy Squishy-22nd Lurikeen Nightshade
Parson Wolfensteiner-22nd Firbolg Hero
Knights of Reverence
Hibernia - Lancelot
Inigo: Fecik! Are those rocks ahead?!
Fecik: If there are, we'll all be dead!
Vacinni: No more rhymes now, I mean it!
Fecik: Anybody want a peanut?
Vacinni: ARRRGH!

EZ_Caith Caidh
06-20-02, 12:40 PM
I believe that stealth over 50 with modifications has been shown to be of no benefit. This is largely because when your stealth is equal to the enemy's level, they're seeing you at minimum detect radius in any case. I suppose there's the possibility that it may be beneficial near mobs of level 50+, but even if that is so, it's a rather small benefit for the cost of getting stealth up that high.

EZ_Benedan
07-22-02, 01:38 PM
"If your going to play a rouge" Learn to spell ROGUE. We are not make-up!!

EZ_Tinkerman11
08-09-02, 05:44 PM
Dont use statzors it is broke... Doesn't count blocked styles or parried styles.

acm.cse.msu.edu/~penney/

is a better parser

EZ_Miron Quickblade
12-12-02, 07:51 PM
Although I no longer play the game I check in every month or so to see if there are any posts to the FAQ with some suggested updates. To my dismay there haven't been any in almost four months now and browsing a few posts in these forums I understand the game has changed quite a bit! To those of you who are playing currently it would be great if you could post what current items in the FAQ are outdated and new things that can be added in!