trainin both slash and thrust??

[EZ_Lohengrin the True]

Ok let me give you some background. I am an infiltrator (lvl 35) who really doesn't like what he sees from poisons. Plus I like to strike, possibly kill, then leave hopefully still alive.

My question is:

What do you wise ones think about training thrust above 75% and training slash above 50%. I was thinking it would be nice to use the slash for cloth and leather and use the thrust for chain.

Is this stupid? I have been known to be stupid and before. I get really stupid sometimes so I thought I would make sure that I was stupid and not really smart. Lohengrin
Occupation: You don't want to know.
Affiliation: The Order SwordBruden
[b]In order to treat people fairly, one has to screw everyone equally.

[EZ_CroverDaRogue]

Not a good idea. Ok, a really bad Idea, but I'm trying to figure a way to word it nicely.

Basically, the difference in bonuses/penalties are not enough to warrant the mass expenditure of points that would require, especially since you could just raise up one of the skills and CS and do more dmg more consitently.

Sinatra Fabulous

[EZ_Lohengrin the True]

what do you mean difference in armor penalties? I get roughly -30 or -40 against an archer right now at lvl 35. If I were using a sword i would get +30 or +40 I would assume. that would mean that I would get 60-80 extra damage being a good 15% of his health. plus, i would think that the sword would have a higher attack cause it is slower than a thruster so that would add more damage right?

Obviously, I am thinking of high 40 lvls or even 50 cause I don't have the points right now to dump 350 into slash. At lvl 50 with a slash bonus.....would it be possible to still oneshot a caster. I think I remember reading that ubergnome with 50 thrust 50 cs can't oneshot a caster at lvl 50.

I am just trying to think of ways around this. Lohengrin
Occupation: You don't want to know.
Affiliation: The Order SwordBruden
[b]In order to treat people fairly, one has to screw everyone equally.

[EZ_Brandyn Aquilius]

Armor bonuses/penalties:

Slash:
chain: -15%
cloth: no bonus/penalty
leather: +15%
plate: -5%
studded: no bonus/penalty

Thrust:
chain: +15%
cloth: no b/p
leather: -15%
plate: -5%
studded: -10%

The bonuses are a little smaller than you thought. I wouldn't switch midstream. Adding points to your thrust will decrease your variance and be worth more than dumping into slash IMO.

There is a problem with damage variance in our crits right now. Ubergnome posted a thread about how the variance was inordinately high. WHEN that gets fixed--along with poisons--we'll be just fine. Stick with thrust if you've started it already. Aurra Sing - 35 InfiltratorDracos DivinusAlbion, Igraine

[EZ_Lohengrin the True]

I am currently lvl 35

100% thrust, crit, stealth

I use no poisons other than lvl 2 to stop archers from running away and help tone down casters.

I took out an orange celt archer last night in 2 hits (perf {474 -68}and creaping death {121-56}). I had a dw hit in there too for 80ish. Even if I didn't take him out he was stunned for 7 seconds so garrot and AH could have easily finished him before he could move again.

BUT if i was using slash would it have been (518--my current cap-- and whatever CD's cap is. I am guessing it is at least 1/3 of perf which would be 170. That is 768 damage in 2.1 seconds compared to 675 in 2.1 seconds. With 2.1 seconds most people can't even blink. course I am using long lion tooth for the kills instead of my adamentium gladius. It gives me 546 perf cap....course it is slower by 1 second. I use the gladius to kill casters and the faster weapons to kill archers. I think I am going to purchase an adamantium slash weapon and see what my perf max is then go see what it does to an archer. Guess that is the only way to find out for sure.

I guess it all falls back onto the question of poisons. I am sooo unsure of its uses. If I can already kill casters and archers with ease why would I need poisons. OF course I am only lvl 35 so I have no idea about end game.

doing high thrust and slash was just an idea anyways just like high thrust/poison or high thrust/DW.

I am leaning toward poisons once I get to 40 but thought I would get thoughts on thrust/slash path first.

thanks for your thoughts. Lohengrin
Occupation: You don't want to know.
Affiliation: The Order SwordBruden
[b]In order to treat people fairly, one has to screw everyone equally.

[EZ_Brandyn Aquilius]

I like the thrust/poison or thrust/DW ideas. I always considered that what we were meant to do was spec in weapon, stealth, and CS, then choose either envenom OR dual wield. That's why I thought 2.0x was enough....that's a dead issue now, because you can safely use them both.

There is a level 40+ Inf on my server who claims to have no problem killing ANY even con in RvR, sometimes even taking on some orange light tanks. They also claim to not have any problems pulling aggro away from higher level tanks in PvE. This is due to a relatively high DW. If you want to dispute it, please do, I'd love to hear discussions on it....but DON'T flame the messenger!

Also, I have recently noticed that I am managing to get aggro more often than i used to. I usually PA (one poison applied), CD (two poisons applied), switch weapons and Garrote, then Achilles Heel (3 poisons applied). It seems MOBs don't like me too much after that and make it a priority to put me out of THEIR misery. Unfortunately, they have a good deal of success. Aurra Sing - 37 Infiltrator



Dracos Divinus Lair

[EZ_Aach]

I was banging on about this for ages when the game came out and I was probably wrong because the lack of skill points meant that I could never have a realy effective weaponskill.

I did it anyway and its excelent in both PvE and RvR, rapid attacks realy level out the variance thing especialy as you can use your stamina to adjust it (agro or deagro) and past 2/3 you dont seem to increase your damage cap.

An important feature to remember is that the bonus is aplied *after* style damage so its not fair to compare the value of versatility with the value of better weapon damage - you must also consider styles.

So long as your weapons have chunky + skill bonus your doing great. The skill point argument is less weighty since we got our bonanza.

Who cares about variance in RvR - there are too many variables for it to be a worthwhile measure and the advantage of versatility cannot be calculated in numbers.

I noticably out damage assasins who are two levels higher than me because they are thrusting against my leather and I am slashing against theirs. But if you choose to be a slash spec for these considerations you are rubbish against *healers* and against *bards* who are primo target in big RvR battles - thrust spec makes you deadly to these pests.

[EZ_Jammermon]

We are already the Black Holes of Point Sinks...

Train ONE choice to near 100% before 2 to 50-75%

You get yer best reward for the train point after 75% of level. Until 75% of level you raise the Mimimum damage ...
Above 75% of level you raise the Minimum and Maximum Damage. So instead of "averaging 1/2% more" (the reward you get for the first 75% of level trains) you get 1 full percent more (76%-100% of level.

Unlike CS (you increase est 9HP damage to Crit Strike moves only per train)
Or Envenom (Moves from 10 HP a tic; 50 a dose... to 50 a tic, 250 a dose across entire skill from 1-50) which only hits when poisoning,
Weapon training affects every blow you make. Thats when poisoning, dual hitting, Crit striking, off hand stab, EVERY blow.

Summation; don't be "average" in two weapon skills when you could be outstanding in one.

Example; grouped with an L43 Assassin other night whose weapon skill was 28 (65%). I am L40 with weapon skill 92% of level. He couldn't possibly take aggro off me unless I wanted to pass to him with de-taunt. As we chatted he shared he was very disappointed the last few levels with his performance. I encouraged him to "boom" up the Weapon. He did.. 29-30-31-32 in one massive train... and has since tiold me he has seen a TON of difference 66%-75%. Wait till he hits 80% )

My Skills; L40
Stealth 29 (+8 in Items) 37 (92% Level)
Pierce/Thrust 34 (+3 Items) 37 (92% Level)
Crit Strike 31 (78% Level)
Envenom 30 (+5 Items) 35 (88% Level)

Wasted on Vine; Blades and Dual Wield
(I dinna train any stealth till L32 Skill 8 free used +Stealth items to be viable)

His Skills; L43 (have no clue what was items or not)
Stealth 42
Pierce/Thrust 32
Crit Strike 38
Envenom 25

Please note with far higher CS and lower weapons he could NOT get aggro ie outdamage in over 100 fights unless I GAVE it to him.

Jammer of Hibernia/Palomides

[EZ_Lohengrin the True]

I am prancing around like a schoolboy who can't find a bathroom because of 1.48 patch thingy.

I have no clue what to do now so I will be only training in absolutes and saving the rest of my points till after 1.48. If after that patch we have to be more melee then I will train poisons. If we get a CS boost I will continue on 100% thrust/cs. If we just get screwed then I will do something else like hang myself. heh

right now at 35 I am:

30 +9 stealth
34 +1 CS
29 +6 thrust
5 +5 dw
2 +1 poisons

I got some points in slash too but I have no clue what they are.

Here is to hoping 1.48 is not the appocolypse.

Lohengrin
Occupation: You don't want to know.
Affiliation: The Order SwordBruden
[b]In order to treat people fairly, one has to screw everyone equally.

[EZ_Brandyn Aquilius]

Quote: I am prancing around like a schoolboy who can't find a bathroom because of 1.48 patch thingy.



Quote: Here is to hoping 1.48 is not the appocolypse.

/em tosses on down

[EZ_Lohengrin the True]

Huh? Sorry I don't understand that phrase. Lohengrin
Occupation: You don't want to know.
Affiliation: The Order SwordBruden
[b]In order to treat people fairly, one has to screw everyone equally.