This hour's Nightshade template

[EZ_Ciardha Sidhe]

Has anyone else redesigned their 50 template several times the last few days?

Here's what I'm now shooting for. I dub this my "Hedge Your Bets" template.

Stealth 40. I still want Safefall IV.

Piercing 34. A healthy 2/3 spec for a base 100% damage. Items will eventually bring it up to 45... and since it looks like realm bonuses aren't in the item cap, it might actually creep up to 50 eventually. Tempted to raise it higher for the better WeaponSkill, though.

Critical Strike 39. Right now, I'm still not feeling a great desire for Rib Separation. But things could change... and a higher PA cap would be nice.

Envenom 39. I've always planned on a high envenom. Looks like that will be useful.

Celtic Dual 6. I've been generally ignoring my CD spec and I think I'm doing fine. At 6 I get a taunt style with a different animation than my detaunt. /shrug

That should be effective... and it leaves a fair chunk of points left over. Enough points to bring Critical Strike to 44, Piercing to 39, or Celtic Dual to 23, depending on what happens or doesn't happen. Ciardha Sidhe, Elven Nightshade of Guinevere
"Between the darkness and the light, somebody's will gets done tonight."

[EZ_Iriki]

You hit the nail on the head with that subject. I'm not complaining though.

My main inf will be very balanced. ~40 in stealth, cs, poison, and thrust with the rest in DW. I won't be the best at anything but hopefully I will be good at everything.

My alt inf (if I ever spend much time playing him) will neglect CS. ~40 in stealth, ~42 in DW, slash, and poison. Will be interesting to see how the compare if I get them both leveled up.

[EZ_Caith Caidh]

Yeh.. Mine now looks something like:
Stealth 40
Envenom 41 (Think I can manage +9 without too much trouble)
CS 39
Blades 39 (
CD 2 and whatever is left over at the end.
Should have leftovers, with which I'll pump either CS, Blades, or both, and then dump the rest into CD.

But this'll change tomorrow, no doubt.

EDIT: Like Iriki I've been planning a non-CS Shade.. Specced as follows
Stealth: 25
Pierce 44
Env 43
CD 44

Since the only real reason I'm raising stealth is for keep taking, that won't be raised till the 40s (I'm not into auto training, but I just won't need stealth until then)
CS will have a point or two dumped in (Does it autotrain?) to get BS1 to break BT.

Edited by: Caith Caidh at: 3/20/02 10:19:31 am

[EZ_Valarauco]

Currently 45 and:

35 (46) Stealth
35 (45) Pierce
39 (40) Critical Strike
23 (30) Envenom
18 (21) Celtic Dual

Plan for 50 (w/ realistic bonuses):

40 (50) Stealth
40 (50) Envenom
36 (47) Pierce
39 (40) Critical Strike
18 (20) Celtic Dual

However, I think I'm going to just raise Env to 32 (40) over the next 2 levels, then stop spending points for a bit.

[EZ_iora]

Any comments on choosing between a cs-heavy and a moderate template? Both assume a (very) optimistic level 50.

40 stealth
34 pierce
34 envenom
50 critical strike
6ish celtic dual (leftover points, but I already have 6 invested.)

And the moderates:
40 stealth
34 pierce
40 envenom
44 critical strike
leftover cd

40 stealth
39 pierce
41 envenom
39 critical strike
leftover cd

Give or take a point or two on some specs. Since I am insane (I'm sure I'll have plenty of referrals in that department...), I'm attempting to autotrain stealth as high as possible. I have no need to RvR with this character until post 40, and I'd only train stealth before then if it was seriously hampering PvE combat. If I'm lucky enough to make it to 40 autotrained, that should be 54 points, I think.

The things I'm really hesitant to budge on are:
- 40 stealth
- minimum 34 pierce
- minimum 39 cs
- I would like to be able to use lifebane at the end, and I'm not sure what a reasonable assumption for envenom would be, to get to that point.
- 6 cd, cuz it's already there. Kinda regretting it, but all templates indicate I'd've had those points leftover anyway.

Thanks!
iora.

[EZ_Ciardha Sidhe]

Hi Iora!

High Critical Strike is nice. I kept my CS about equal to my level all the way to 39, and I never regretted it. Once I hit 39, I haven't raised it since. Bringing it from 39 to 50 gets you two things: styles 3 and 4 in an evade reaction chain, and an opening style damage cap that's 99 points higher (assuming no CS bonuses from items/rank). If Rib Separation and Ripper were amazing, then it might be worth it. They're not. The points to get you from 39 to 50 could get you a lot of other things...

The problem with autotraining stealth is that it's tough to set up Critical Strike openers with a low stealth - particularly Perforate Artery at 21, which is a stealthed front attack. Low stealth means easy to uncover, a huge "enemy is too close" radius, and slow stealthed walking speed. Autotraining to 20 probably isn't too tough... autotraining to 40 sounds like an exercise in pain.

Anything over 40 in Envenom is probably overkill. Hibernia has a nice selection of +Envenom gear, and with spellcrafting that should only get easier. Still waiting for alchemy too...

[EZ_Thaiden]

Currently, I'm a 29 shade.

Current spec's are a guess:

pierce 21 (+1)
stealth 25 (+3)
envenom 7 (+2)
CS 24/25
CD 2

For the 35 BG, I hope to have at lvl 35.

Pierce 24 (+1)
stealth 28/7 (+7)
envenom 7(+2)
CS 34/5 (for creeping death)
CD 2
I feel Creeping death is more important than a few extra points on a DoT.

For the lvl 50 template I feel the final spec will be the norm for shades:

Pierce 40 (+'s)
Stealth 40 (+'s)
envenom 39 (+'s)
CS 39 (+'s)
CD 10 (+'s) Pre CD update, this would allow for 30% chance for a dual wield. With the update I think it moves it towards 40%, or higher, at lvl 50.

Granted, some may opt for 39 in pierce or stealth. Or max out pierce to 34 and the rest into CD. But to me, this is the most solid template based on what we currently know.

This template makes it pretty easy to gain 50 in pierce, stealth, envenom, and CS. What more could a shade want?

-thai

Edit: got my numbers off Catacomb's Character builder. It's only as good as that program . Thank goodness for the mini-levels after 40 and the increase in spec points. Fioch Mac Ti'eranEdited by: Thaiden at: 3/31/02 10:48:16 am

[EZ_Caith Caidh]

Iora's posting here now? Aiiiiie! <grins>
Forget to heal the Lurikeens! Forget to heal the Lurikeens!
They're around as tall horizontally as they are vertically anyway! Nobody will notice the difference!
Edited by: Caith Caidh at: 4/1/02 12:45:57 am

[EZ_Valarauco]

Welcome Iora

I changed my mind again for lvl 50 spec:

40 envenom
39 critical strike
39 pierce
37 stealth
18 celtic dual

Main difference there is lower stealth, higher pierce. Rationale: Safe Fall 4 would be neat and all, but is not an actual combat ability. It may even come in handy in PvP with new zones and such, but that's not the same thing as the huge benefit all the time with higher weaponskill, which I maintain is the most important spec for any melee class.

My stealth is currently 35+11, and will be 35+12 automatically when I hit 50 (cap changes). Furthermore, I am 2/3 of the way to Realm Rank 3 without even spending most of my time RvRing, so with my current gear and that rank I will be at an effective 50 stealth at level 50. In the mean time, even with my 46 effective stealth at level 46, I am very rarely seen by anything but an Infiltrator or Shadowblade. I won't feel compelled to wear +11 in stealth at level 50, though I'd be wearing my current gear even if it didn't have the 12 points of +stealth on it, because of the other stats.

Additionally, playermade weapons own, but don't have any +spec, and there is no firm ETA on spellcraft. Higher base pierce becomes even more important.

Envenom is 40 because +8 items and +2 rank is easy. Further rank means I can swap out some +Env gear for others (example: I'd really rather wear Imbued Unseelie Gloves than Midnight Marauder Gloves, but will have to wait for Rank 5 to make that switch; at Rank 4 I can swap Master Assassin Pendant for Rogue Overlord Pendant, then at 5 switch back to Assassin Pendant and Unseelie Gloves).

Celtic Dual 18 because getting a spec to 18 is just too cheap to pass up. The return on investment is phenominal, even with a spec that tends not to be as worthwhile as our other lines such as Celtic Dual.

Critical Strike 39 more for the high damage than Stunning Stab, but Stunning Stab *is* slightly better than just Garotting after Creeping Death: small defense bonus, slightly higher damage, less endurance. Shades wanting to take CS higher would be justified, as there are hardly any +CS items in Hibernia.

[EZ_Caith Caidh]

I can't make up my mind on 50 really. I know I want 50 envenom, but I'm not sure whether I want to just get envenom to 39 and assume that eventually I'll manage the +11, (And hence save a decent number of points).
Celtic Dual isn't too much of a priority for Caith simply because in RvR he's going to do damage mostly through the opener + poison. It's cheap, but I'd rather have those points sunk into weapon spec..

I'm almost at the point of just bringing all 4 primaries (Weapon, stealth, CS, env) to 39 and just dumping the rest into weapon, since more weapon never hurts.

[EZ_Pemolis]

Don't throw out CD so quickly. A free swing will help in the damage department as well as help in interruption.

I believe at 20 spec there is a small increase to the CD %.

Eitherway Spec plan is easiest to show.

Stealth 40
Pierce 34
Poison 40
Crit 39
Celtic Dual 21 (Get hurricaine).

I don't think there is any leftover. I am Kong.

Strong and passionate, I tend to be misunderstood, sometimes even feared. I don't want to fight, I don't want to cause trouble, all I ask is a little love, and a little peace. If I don't get what I want, I get angry, and throw barrels and flaming oil at whatever's stopping me. What Video Game Character Are You?

[EZ_Czeris]

hah, I've been switching around numbers alot in the last few days, but this is what I've finally come up with:

Stealth: 36 (+11) (+3) = 50
Safe Fall IV is IMHO pretty useless. With current rps and items I will have +13 bonus at level 50. One more rank and that's +14. Stealth past 50 has been confirmed through numerous tests to have no benefit. I think I can survive at 49 stealth until I get Realm Rank 4.


Blades: 4 (+3) = 7
Leftover points.

Piercing: 39 (+8 or +9) (+3) = 50-51
High weaponskill is your friend. +9 item bonus just from bonuses on weapons is easy to get (+5 main hand, +3 or 4 offhand). Points past 50, though seeing diminishing returns, still do add some benefit, so further bonuses from rps or items are not totally wasted.

Envenom: 35 (+11) (+3, eventually +4) = 49, eventually 50. Lifebane will be my motivator for getting Realm Rank 5. +11 from items will be easy with next patch (+4 from DF gloves, +5 from DF Gem, +2 from Master Assassin Pendant). I already have +2 from rps which gives the level 48 poison. The remaining two points and Lifebane will be my reward for RvR-ing to Rank 5.

Celtic Dual: 9 (+0) (+3) = 12 Might end up with some +items, for this but I just look at celtic dual as a bonus skill.

Critical Strike: 47 (+1) (+3) = 51 I am going for max Perforate damage, and it has been proven that skill past 50 does increase this, albeit at a slower rate than points up to 50. I could care less about the styles, but an extra 100 points to the damage cap is going to help a lot. Currently at level 47, I can *almost* one shot most level 50 casters. With just a little more Perf damage, the number of one-shots will increase substantially. There are currently pretty few +CS items in Hibernia. The only one I am counting on is the Poacher helm that adds +1.

The only thing I am a little iffy on is the high CS. I could raise celtic dual quite a lot if I left CS at something like 44. Can anyone confirm the bonus to damage from CS past 50? I heard it is +5 per point.

[EZ_Valarauco]

OK I think I've come to a final decision.

Stealth 35
Pierce 41
Critical 42
Envenom 37
Dual 18

Stealth will easily be 48 at 50 and will creep up from Realm Rank. I don't mind wearing Stealth items or not having my Stealth at 50.

Pierce and Critical high because bonuses are hard to come by on these in Hibernia.

Envenom 37 allows for Lifebane at 50 with items + RR3.

Dual 18 because for the spec cost that's a huge benefit.

Here's my question... instead of 42/41 Pierce/Crit or Crit/Pierce, I could theoretically go 44/39 Pierce/Crit or Crit/Pierce... but I don't think either Dragonspider or Rib Separation is worth specing high by their own merits, and I'd rather keep these two even. So I think I just answered my own question, unless someone has an opinion otherwise.

[EZ_Ciardha Sidhe]

Keep track of your WeapSkill the next few times you raise your Piercing. Last time I raised mine, it didn't change... there may be other factors involved. I'm going to be watching that stat very closely for the next few levels.

If there's no significant WeapSkill increase for a level or two of Piercing, may as well go 44 Critical/39 Piercing for the extra PA cap and the privilege of saying that you could, if you wanted to, do a Rib Separation.

[EZ_Mingz]

29 NS

Stealth 19+6
Piercing 22+6
CS 25+1
CD 3+1
Envenom 19+3