"King of Thieves" Competition - Rules Announced

[EZ_Rohaise]

Posted in the new "Arena" forum of the Harpy's Head Tavern:


boards.station.sony.com/u...LastLogin=


====

I have given much thought to the event my noted rogues, and I am sorry to state that I cannot come up with an event that will truly test all of the skills that make a rogue as versatile as the profession is.
This saddens me, because with a profession as capable in so many different aspects of life, we will only be able to test those skills that define the combat capabilities that each of you possess.

Pickpocket of another character has been disallowed by the gods, therefore would require those individuals that tend to be out of control of the avatars of Norrath. Anytime you are dealing with these beings (NPC) many things can and usually go wrong.

Poisons are a trademark of the rogues, and I have only one request on the topic, this being that no blindness poisons are applied and used against each other. This is to ensure that the matches are based on true skill and trickery, not a false trickery granted by a poison.

Pick Locks, while a needed skill in some of the greatest dungeons in the realm, are far away from the Arena that we hold the events in. This also holds true for Sense and Disarm traps, which are hundreds of miles from the arena zone.

Instill Doubt has been requested to be disallowed by a council of rogues that met in the Arena this past week. After showing that a single success of this skill results in an undoubted win, it was outlawed from the event. This skill should not be considered “useless” by any means, just too strong to be using against each other in this duel.

Disarm, on the other hand, will be allowed in the event. It will take a quick hand to disarm a rogue in motion, and an even quicker hand to pull out another dagger from a nearby sheath. This skill cannot be ignored and will remain in the event.

Activateable items will be disallowed. Needless to say those bringing earrings that can lifetap, potions that can heal or negate poisons will negate damage done to them not out of skill, but out of the wealth of a rogue that can afford such luxuries. Items that have these abilities can still be worn, just not used.

Hide and Sneak is a no-win situation for the judges, contestants, and participants. If we allow hide and sneak, everyone who enters the ring will have see invis gear on so they can engage their opponent at all times. The only thing hide and sneak will accomplish is to take away the event from the crowd who has come to see the greatest rogues fight each other.

Therefore we are going to disallow hide and sneak in this event so that the rogues can wear items that will allow them to increase their combat efficiency and allow everyone to see the great action.

Backstabbing is allowed and encouraged. Since this is normally the most damage that a rogue can do to an opponent, of course it will be allowed.

The use of ranged weapons for the rogues is another profession defining ability. I must state that the bow is not allowed, but other weapons of ranged attacks will be granted. Also be advised that ‘kiting’ will not be allowed.

This leaves a lot of room for interpretation of this statement, so I will make an all encompassing rule that states you can only attack via range once, then reengage with melee. Now if you wish to throw a dagger, melee once, back off, throw another dagger, that is allowed. As long as there is melee between the ranged attacks, you may engage as much as you desire.

There was a rule with the warriors, which stated they must face each other at all times in combat, therefore not allowing for “Constructive Fleeing”. If you wish to turn your back on a fellow rogue, knowing full well their capabilities of attacks from the back, both melee and ranged, you may do so. I expect low life expectancy for those who turn their backs to a rogue, and highly advise against it.

(OOC) The rule of Link-Death has been reviewed, and it was determined to modify the standing of this rule. If you go Link-Dead and are losing, you forfeit the match. If you go Link-Dead and are winning the match, the battle will be reviewed by the GM for a rematch. The option of disqualifying the Link-Dead player is still given to the judge, even if winning, but the Judge has the option to call for a rematch now.

These are the current rules of the event, and I assure you that they are still open for discussion and revision up to the point of the first match (Prexus – Wed at 5pm). I have worked with many rogues to try to find another event that will fit within time restraints so all servers can run them, that spectators can watch the glorious event, and that are fair to the profession that is involved.

Good luck to the Rogues, we shall see you at the event!

Lady Daegarmo
Online Event Coordinator
Verant Interactive
9/20 at 5pm - Prexus
9/21 at 5pm - Erollisi Marr
9/21 at 5pm - Torvonnilious
9/21 at 6pm - Luclin
9/22 at 5pm - The Rathe
9/22 at 6pm - Povar

9/23 at 3pm - Vallon Zek
9/23 at 4pm - Mithaniel Marr
9/23 at 5pm - Xegony
9/23 at 6pm - Lanys
9/23 at 8pm - Innoruuk

9/24 at 3pm - Tarew Marr
9/24 at 5pm - Cazic Thule
9/24 at 6pm - Fennin Ro
9/24 at 6pm - E'ci
9/24 at 6pm - Brell

9/25 at 4pm - Solusek Ro
9/25 at 5pm - Veeshan

9/26 at 5pm - Terris Thule

9/27 at 4pm - Karana
9/27 at 5pm - Rallos Zek

9/28 at 2pm - Tallon Zek
9/28 at 6pm - Druzzil

9/29 at 6pm - Quellious
9/29 at 6pm - 7th Hammer
9/29 at 6pm - Sayryn
9/29 at 6pm - Morel
9/29 at 6pm - Nameless

9/30 at 6pm - Bristlebane
9/30 at 6pm - Tunare
9/30 at 6pm - Bertox
9/30 at 6pm - Rodcet
9/30 at 6pm - Tribunal

10/01 at Noon - Final on Test

[EZ_MajestykVZ]

If they are looking for a test of skills in combat, then both contestants should enter the arena naked, given 5 minutes to chose their weapons and poison components from a vendor selection, and 5 minutes to prepare for the fight. Majestyk, Rogue, Leader, Shanks, Vallon Zek!We as Shanks, have chosen the hard path. In the hardness of it, is where we find the glory.

[EZ_Dzeaser]

god thats @#%$ed up we're rogues the scum of norrath why the hell do we need rules i think we should just all break them and see how pissed they get if we all break them then what can they do "Have you ever stoped to think about what rats do for fun?" Dropkick Murphys "Good Rats"

[EZ_Bramble Burrpaw]

<Poisons are a trademark of the rogues, and I have only one request on the topic, this being that no blindness poisons are applied and used against each other. This is to ensure that the matches are based on true skill and trickery, not a false trickery granted by a poison>

False trickery based on something that is made by rogues. I'm sorry but this just cracked me up. So what is the difference between real trickery and fake trickery? How can you be sure real trickery isn't fake, but just really clever about it?

Guess it's turning out like people said. Gonna be a big old melee contest between mini-warriors.
Ransack
One more thief...hide your fillings and your daughters!

[EZ_Hyarth]

Do we have to register somewhere, or do we just show up at the anointed time?

[ShadowCross]

Just show up in Arena at the announced time.

[EZ_Gronti]

Lol no tricks and no hide and sneak and no instill doubt.

This is a rogue combat right?

I hope you all break these rules!
And if you do I would be proud of you too Gronti says 'If you finally get ghoulbane can you give it to me ? I want to seel it'
Vixin says 'What mistype is that ? see it, steel it, or sell it?'
Gronti says 'euh...'

[ShadowCross]

-Instill doubt makes you run to the middle of the arena and then stop. That's why it was disallowed.
-Hide is useless in an environment where EVERY participant can get a Perma-See-Invis-Item.
-Sneak is useless against players.

No tricks? Didn't see that anywhere.
Be resourceful and think different. That's the ticket to Test Server. <u>ShadowCross Veldrin'Alur</u>
Teir'dal Blackguard, Bladedancer, Humble Follower of Bristlebane
Member of DarkWind Guild
Ring Warden, Solusek Ro Server

Rogue in the 55th Rank of Darkness
Proud wielder of Crystalline Spear and Bloodpoint[i]Master of Pottery
Master of Poison Making
Master of Fletching

Soon:
Master of Smithing

[EZ_Gronti]

I understand the reasons, but what is left is not a rogue. It is more like a warrior or monk!

Besides a true rogue would break the rules! Gronti says 'If you finally get ghoulbane can you give it to me ? I want to seel it'
Vixin says 'What mistype is that ? see it, steel it, or sell it?'
Gronti says 'euh...'

[DarthEnder]

No, a true rogue wouldn't be in some arena contest.

This thing is to entertain people. If you don't like the rules then don't go. Go back to Befallen and pick your locks. Cause thats a rogues life.

I think these rules are just fine considering what they want to accomplish.

-Ender
Keenix
Assassin Adept of the Agents of Mistmoore
Thirty-Ninth Rank

[EZ_Shadowind]

Well lets see um.... out of all they took away, and out of all we have...... well damn lets see...... throwing weapons are the only ranged we can use,....... so what kinda of daggers and stuff do we have..... throwing borders ? well damn those are only good for barbs, so what do the rest of us have ? throwing daggers = suck, ok well barbs will win at ranged, so what other skills do we have in combat? well barbs get a stun attack, that they can use to bs ya, what other race rogue has this? NONE, ok well lets look at melee well if you talk damage = str and stuff, well again you lookin at a barb maybe dwarf, ...... ok um procing you lookin at just about any race.

Well there you have it guys, the winner of the rogue contest will be a barb rogue, useing poison, trowing borders, and stuning you, pretty sad that it comes to this as a contest for rogues.

If you not a barb why show up?

@#$% you verant.

Shadowind
There is more to a rogue then melee.

[ShadowCross]

I don't know any barbarian rogue on Solusek Ro that is higher than 53.

So, Solusek Ro won't have a barbarian winner.

[EZ_Hyarth]

Fennin has Zephiots and Yarg. Oh well, it'll be fun. =)

[EZ_Gronti]

Oh yes it is nice to have such a contest. Nothing wrong about that. It is entertaining.

But Yes I don't like the rules. And wouldn't participate because of that. But well it is still entertaining. If I can make it on time I'll just watch and cheer for some support.

/grin

'Now where did I put that ale ?'



Gronti says 'If you finally get ghoulbane can you give it to me ? I want to seel it'
Vixin says 'What mistype is that ? see it, steel it, or sell it?'
Gronti says 'euh...'

[EZ_Ozaak]

slam cannot be used at the same time as backstab <u>Ozaak Kaazo******** *******************************</u>
Not all Dwarves are bitter old men... some are dirty too.
Bitter, dirty, old Dwarf. Humble follower of Bristlebane

[EZ_Ignaviae]

"King of Thieves" ?! What thieves ? I don t see any thieves in here !


I AM NOT A THIEF I'M AN ASSASSIN !!!

ASS-ASS-IN !


Hell boycott this competition until it has it's name changed ! " We few , we happy few , we band of brothers "

[EZ_Scree]

Im afraid that my comments would be censored out by the chat filter but lets just note that their is only one skill were allowed to use that makes this any different then the warrior competition. That skill is backstab. Its like a forced crit on the warriors perspective and i for one will not participate in this "test of skills". This competition is all about whos got the best stuff. And wait... its not even that because someones decided that weapons earned from the hardest parts of the game are not allowable! (bloodpoint). Im sorry but i refuse to participate and will mock any or all who consider themselves a "king of thieves" for winning that sickening debacle of a competition.

~Scree
51rst Rogue of Quellious
Slayers of Slaw

[EZ_Kanian]

Are you allowed to just go and watch cause I definately wouldnt mind watching some fellow rogue's kick eachother's ass Well thats just me

[EZ_Machieaveli]

Hmm, lets see, no bows? Considering we have the same skill cap as a ranger i would say disallowing archery is like disallowing us to use 1hb weapons, It may not fit the most popular vision of a rogue but it in no way invalidates it either (need I mention Robin Hood?). This ruling displeases me greatly, all rogues have had a choice and option to train themselves in the uses of all weapons available to them, and none should be restricted. it is up to personal preferance. To me Thrown weapons will never be more than a nice toy to play with until they decide to put in decent items that are usable by the majority of rogue races and are stackable.

No Hide/Sneak? hmm.. rogues arent toe-to-toe fighters, there may even be a official quote to that effect somewhere. The use of subterfuge and distraction is paramount to a rogues concept and strategy. I ask what is the difference between the disparity of a rbb and a dual wielding blood point rogue and that of a non-hasted dual SBD wielding rogue? Obviously the rules dont account for the obvious advantage the first rogue would have. But yet there is a distinction made with hide/sneak? Whats fair after all, if the rules allowed activatable items, once selected a rogues location could be verified via item casting or ranged weapon. It is up to the individual rogue to plan for strategies that may be used against him/her and to plan so that any advantages may be negated or turned against their attacker. One could even play the possum so to speak in luring an opponent into thinking they didnt see them until an opportunity arose.

well thats my 2 cents on the rules. Machieaveli Shadowstalker lvl 49 Rogue on Rallos Zek

[EZ_Oldsalt]

I can understand some of the rules but some of it is just plain stupid. Sounds like we are just to put on a show rather than actually use our heads and come up with some strategies. Pretty disappointed in this, if they wanted to test the skill of rogues they sure picked a piss poor way to do it.
Salt

[EZ_Enkara]

There is absolutely no sense showing up if you're not a level 58-60 rogue with maxxed out gear.

I would much rather see naked rogues duking it out with fine steel weapons of their choice. As it stands the supremely high level characters with uber-gear will mow their foes with minimum effort.

There are potentially rogues out there with dual bloodpoints with near full suits of Mrylokar ( I know one with helm, arms, 2 bracers, boots &amp; legs).

Don't have a rune branded girdle/Cloak of Flames level item? Don't show up.

The rules suck. I give it two-thumbs way, way down.

Enkara Frostrose
Level 56 Tarrew Marr Blackguard

PS: I have access to most of the aforementioned uber-gear through my guild and still don't want to compete in this laughable excuse for a contest of thievery.

[EZ_Lank]

I dunno... I like using throwing weapons more than archery...

And instill doubt would be cheap, and it would result in a win to whoever got it off first. I think it will just come down to some guy who has full woven shadow/mryolakar's and uses fanged skull stilletos and blood points.

In other words, just like the warrior contest: It's not a battle of skill, it's a battle of gear.

... I DO wish they did contests and stuff for all levels... My guys ALWAYS have near-uber gear, cause I trade too much. I'd win. Oh yes.

/em wonder's what they'll call the SK, caster, and monk incarnations of the Best of the Best tourneys (Kumite, anyone?)...

[EZ_Dove Whispersilk]

hey Enkara, Im level 56, have never been in a "uber guild" for any meaningful amount of time (not enough time to get loot from one anyways), have only 1 piece of mrylokar's armor. My only haste item is a hangmans noose (worse haste then FBSS), and personally I think I have an above average chance of winning (or at least doing well in) my server competition.

Some people will lose (or not even try) simply because they think they have no chance. Go practice fighting - become a better dueler then the other rogues, and no matter what gear you use or what level you are, you have a good chance.

If dueling doesnt interest you then dont go. the rogue BoB, just like the warrior one, is a dueling competition. Its not a level competition, or a item competition - people who think so havent dueled enough to know how hard you get owned (no matter your level or gear) by someone whos a superior dueler.
Dove, rank 56 Blackguard of Terris-Thule

[EZ_Rooksarii]

Woo, I am sure to be there to watch the great ones from My server do battle, with so many great rogues to chose from, I am hard pressed to find a favorite! Good luck to all, and I shall chear for each and everyone of you! TUNARE, TUNARE, TUNARE!

:-) Rooksarii Talonbane
Treasure Hunter Extrordinare
Master Burgaler
Master Bladesman
Witty Racketeer
Suave Highwayman
"Many Who walk in shadows are champions of the light!"

[EZ_Theiven Poison]

/agree Dove. Very well said...

But, no denying that bad ass gear does "help" but its not THE determining factor for whether or not you win. There are so many strategies to dueling, and ways to hit without being hit. I have won almost every duel ive ever done, even against a some non-rogues. Some of the rogues I fought had just as good, if not better, gear than I, but i was still able to triumph.

I wish that they would have put more thought into this competion, but they just made it into a bloodfest. If thats what they want, then thats all they are going to get. In (almost) no way does this show a rogues "true" abilties. Oh well...

Let the best Fighter Win!

Theiven Poison, lvl 47 Rogue of Nameless Level 46, for now

[EZ_Artemys Darkbringer]

Anyone know if you need to stick with same weapons all the time ? Or you can first use Locustlure , then SBD/Obtenebrate ( IF allowed since Blinding poison isnt.. ) then another weapon again ?

Artemys
Rogue 58
Divine Vengeance
Terris-Thule. Edited by: Artemys Darkbringer 9/19/00 10:04:21 pm

[EZ_Rollie da Tenderizer]

Hallooo

I can see why they don't allow procing weapons, Imagine a Rogue with 2 Bloodpoints and an Ontenbrate Short Sword. It would turn into a proc match.

The warrior contest was a good idea because Warriors basically step up to the mob and hack hack hack hack. I know there is more to being a good tank than that, but in a general sense, that is how warriors duel.

I can also see why they had a hard time coming up with good contest rules since Rogues do so many things.

In the end, I think they should have had the Rogue contest down the road a bit. Maybe by that time they could have figured out a better way to determine the Rogue King. But then again, maybe not.

Well, I hope it will be fun for the poeple who compete. I just wish the people on my server who are in the Burning Woods and Karnor zones would realize how great Rogues are in battle. Took me 4 and a half hours today to get a group. it is getting bad

See you around guys...


Rogue & Superstud
Did I mention the Superstud part already?Edited by: Rollie da Tenderizer at: 9/20/00 8:55:09 am

[ShadowCross]

Rollie, sorry to tell you, but you don't know how poison works at all.

You cannot poison weapons, you poison the primary weapon slot.
So, you can put whatever piercing weapon you want there, you can only poison one shot.

Then you have to reapply poison. (Which would be suicide in the duel)

And besides, the rules say that only ONE poison per fight will be allowed.

[EZ_CUTS]

I got a few hundred throwing boulders and am getting my skill up!

The only thing that stands in my way, is I am 54.5 now, and Prexus is first.... waaaaaa!

Good luck everyone.

Cuts Alot.
Crimson Stiletto

[EZ_Valdarious]

I think it will turn out to be a quake style player than wins personally, with warriors always having to face one another, no, but with rogue and the major hit of a backstab? You had better be a good strafer, hehe. Oh and BTW, whats up with those messed up times?! 4pm on a Monday? Are they on crack!?





Valdarious Clandestri
34th level of the Dark Arts
Wooer of Women
Cultivator of Purses
Scout of all things Unknown
...and a damn good backscratcher

[EZ_Pilfer]

This will be perfect for rogues to show who is the best of the best. Think of it all they have to do is make all of the spectators red along with the rogues just for the duration on the compititon. Then I will be passing through the audiance stealing all of the money . Come on that is the only way to show the king of THIEVES now if they want to find out who is the best rogue well there are plenty of better ways to do it. A best of the best fight is aghanst the very nature of my rogue. I know I am the best I dont need to prove it to you and if you are all going to be at the compititon it will make it easier for me to get into and back out of the bank with your stuff. And speaking about applying poison I apply several times during a duel but that requires sneak hide and they took that away now didnt they. If your going to traverse thin ice you might as well dance your way across

[EZ_Scree]

Sorry to have to bump this thread to the top.... but for my own purposes i must completely question the nature of those safehousers who are supporting this contest. For all the hard work this board and everyone on it has put in to trying to make our class the best it can be, this contest mocks us in every fashion. We spent a VERY LONG friggin time waiting for that poison upgrade and myself has spent around 15k getting it up past 204. For them to limit us in using ANY of our given abilties defeats the purpose of both the Safehouse and the rest of the rogues who don't visit us playing that race. If you wish to "go along" because you want some little title on your name then i can hardly see how you can manage to call yourself a rogue in the truest sense of the word.

Yes this was a flame directed at those who responded in support so cope with it,
~Scree
Slayers of Slaw
Ex-Shadowed Ones Guildmaster
51rst Rake of Quellious

[EZ_Rohaise]

Scree, hate to turn the flame back on you, but...

Did you attend the open forum Lady D had on the Test Server to discuss alternatives? There was your opportunity to make this event better, rather than post here after the fact.

[EZ_Dove Whispersilk]

allowing hide sneak is pointless - everyone 55+ has (or has access to borrow) a permanent see invis item, that skill is irrelevant.

Instill doubt is an auto-win if it goes off. I think lady Dae doesnt want it to be a match of who gets their one shot kill move off first (this isnt Killer Instinct guys).

Blind poison is banned because it lasts a LONG time. If it was allowed every rogue would use it and the first 3 minutes of every duel would be both rogues running around not hitting anything, and probobly one (or both) of them running outside the arena and being disqualified. Its obvious why blind is not allowed.

I dont think there could be better rules for a rogue dueling contest.

[EZ_Chemistrius]

actually blind doesn't stick to well to post 50 peps and critters. If you're willing to bet your one poison on one that's highly resisted, then that should be your choice.

Using poisons for a long time now has tought me that there are those that stick well to anything and there are those that rarely stick. A poison might look good on paper, but in a battle they usually work a little different.

But hey, what the heck do I know about it anyway, I'm only level 53, I couldn't possibly qualify as a good rogue yet. <u>Chemistrius Ul'Veldrin***</u>
53rd Season Dark Elf Rake
Member of Deus FactumIt will be a hard life.
One without remorse, without reward, without regret.
A path will be placed before you, the choice is yours alone.
Do what you think you cannot do.
It will be a hard life, but you will find out who you are.

[EZ_Scree]

I was unable to attend that little meeting due to a thing called school heh.

The guild i founded on quellious sent a representative though and i still highly doubt my voice would of changed the fact that lady D or whoever would of changed the rules. She knew exactly what was going to happen if it came down to a fight no doubt and i still cant for a minute believe anyone would participate in this.

[EZ_Drizzlin]

What time zone are these listed times posted in?

Drizzlin De'Vir &lt;Prophets>
The Assasin of Vallon Zek
of the 60th Season

[EZ_Cabrarn01]

Uhm. Did they forget to post Xev's time, or will there be no event on Xev? Cabrarn!

[EZ_Dazzler Twodirks]

What a joke.
What are we WARRIORS?

I say we ALL show up and flood the square with a SAFEHOUSE PROTEST!

They go wow look at all the rogues who wish to compete.

Then the server Ring Warden steps forward and announces that "We the rogues of the Safehouse DENOUNCE this contest for the mockery that it is. If you want to hold this contest, go get some WARROIRS instead."

Anyone willing to bet the first person to Circle Strafe gets disqualifyed for exploiting?

And if they allow proc weapons the winner will most likely have a jagged shard of bone.

Proc: FEAR!

I won't attend this joke of an event unless we all go to protest it. Dazzler Twodirks
Rogue of the 52nd 5 finger discount
Guildleader of The Blades of Honor
Resident of Erollisi Marr
Assistant of GM Valtron in the Verant Interactive Debugging Team (Players Division)
Card Carrying Member of The Safehouse
Mariah of Fironia Vie
The Language Lady from Kelethin
Wood Elf Rogue

[EZ_Nasbin]

Um...

Check the date of the post...
This is supposed to discourage piracy?Nasbin Wasbinbobasbin
--58 Rogue of the Bertoxxulous server
Landyr Trint
--Infiltrator of the Galahad server
------
"It's 1986 I'm in the first grade, I'm working really hard to get Mario laid" -- [i]Benefit - Warp to World 6-9
[i]"Breast fondling is not tolerated"
"The Gord often wonders why people threaten to never come back after they've been told never to return." - Gord

[EZ_Dazzler Twodirks]

Heh Calbram bumped it up i didn't even notice that. Dazzler Twodirks
Rogue of the 52nd 5 finger discount
Guildleader of The Blades of Honor
Resident of Erollisi Marr
Assistant of GM Valtron in the Verant Interactive Debugging Team (Players Division)
Card Carrying Member of The Safehouse
Mariah of Fironia Vie
The Language Lady from Kelethin
Wood Elf Rogue

[EZ_Gyorg]

<u>NOTE FROM MODERATORS:</u>
This is an OLD thread from the original Rogue BotB. Please DO NOT post in it. It needs to fall back down. --------------------------
Gyorg Lavode, The original Phin-o-matic
Safehouse Moderator
UnGuilded Rogue Badass
of the 56th Moon over Xegony