Shamans requesting Assistance

[EZ_Kevagron]

Thats right, everyones ?? favourite buffing class would like to request assistance from these boards .

As the busiest EQ Ezboard (and a lot of non-rogues visit here also, including me) I would like to get some exposure here.

You have nothing to lose but err...... well nothing to lose.

I realise poison making is not a "friendly" trade-skill either and I would be happy to lend my support for poison-making if any rogues would care to take this same approach .

Alchemy, as all shaman know, is horribly broken as a tradeskill.
I have made a post in Shamans Crucible and also a post on the EQ boards about this hoping (yeah, right) that SoE may do something about this.

Please take the time to visit the following URL and follow the link and add your comments.

forums.interealms.com/sha...eadid=7660

*** Any other classes apart from shaman are welcome to throw in their support, just think if Alchemy was actually useful it could benefit all classes who can use potions (i.e. everbody ).***

I, (and many other shamans) would like to see something done about this horribly broken trade skill which requires you to be lvl 60 to become a GM in it.

Kevak
"Sow potion factory" Oracle

My new title from inside the thread on EQ boards
Edited by: Kevagron at: 11/11/02 3:46:41 am

[Greldek]

How is it broken? I have a 51 shaman alchemist, and see nothing broken about it. Gntik Littleblade
Gnome Rogue - Dreamers of Eternity
- Ayonae Ro

[EZ_Sophia MorAdu]

I don't think you're gonna get much sympathy from rogues. We have to be level 60 to get 250 in poison making, and most pre-PoP poisons are useless (notice I said MOST, not ALL) I have a lot of shaman friends, and yeah, I wish Alchemy wasn't such a pain.
Sophia's Tavern My Gear

[Greldek]

Well I personally think that the class/race only tradeskills should be more challenging(IE: need certain levels to gain skill)or else they should just be available to every.
Poison making, alchemy, tinkering, research.. are all pretty much the same... they all suck, but all have benefits. Gntik Littleblade
Gnome Rogue - Dreamers of Eternity
Ayonae Ro

[EZ_Kevagron]

This was my reply to another person asking a similar question on a different board.

"The problem is as you have stated. They have a lot of great potions, people only ask for sow and shrink. Ohh and DS for when they need to stack DS's on big mobs.

Virtually all shaman potions are low level spell effects that people can get from any passing by druid/shaman/etc. When was the last time you visited your shaman vendor and got a shrink, lev, eb, ds, sow potion and carried a few around for when they are needed ? Do you see my point, most people don't want to bother buying these potions so it becomes pointless making them and trying to sell them - except for guildies and twinks.

All of the above potions are trivial at skill 80 so there is no point becoming a GM in a tradeskill that no-one is going to buy anything from you in. Gate potions cost 168pp to make, how many people are going to buy these? (the few that do hoard them like gold until they actually HAVE to use them), clarity potions have to be sold for a few hundred pp to make a profit (clarity not KEI), what idiot is going to pay this ?

The tradeskill is broken in that getting to GM means you are still making SoW potions for 2pp profit each which become trivial at around skill 37 and are about the ONLY potion that has a consistent market.

Can you imagine the uproar from all the other tradeskillers if their 250 skill tailor could only sell studded leather for 2pp per item profit, or the smith could only sell banded for a similar profit because there was nothing better they could make with their 250 skill tradeskiller which people would actually buy ?

Tradeskills need to be revamped so that becoming a GM in any skill (alchemy, poison included) you have a viable product to sell when you reach that peak. If you don't it is nothing but a time/money sink with no purpose but a few low level items with marginal use (excluding SoW potions)."

Ohh, and to the guy who has the level 51 shaman, I'm sure his alchemy skill is fine for doing the above and equipping guildies/twinks with these potions. Those of us who would like to become a GM in a class related tradeskill would like something at the end of it to make it actually worthwhile to spend the amount of money and time it takes to become a GM in a skill, not be stuck making items which trivial at below skill level 40.

You can also apply all of the above reasoning to poison-making, although I believe at least that has a use for the individual rogue. Every potion a shaman can make with exception of the DS, extremely expensive clarity and gate potions a shaman can cast on himself anyway .

Just some more explanation, if you don't want to support this then thats fine, I'm not expecting everyone to jump through hoops to help out shamans. But for those of you who see this as a fundamentally broken tradeskill then your 2cp as suggested on the first post would be welcomed. Edited by: Kevagron at: 11/11/02 7:06:05 am

[EZ_GedalTheGnome]

Try tinkering for a while, then try to convince me that Alchemy is broken......

[Darkefang]

As a master in both Alchemy and Poison-making, I guess I have a unique view. Both are a pain. Here are some thoughts on each.

Poisons:
1. Poison-making can require lots of component farming, especially if they are also mastering pottery.
2. The purchased components are expensive, which is why many poison-makers become potters also.
3. The skill-up rate is low and the sell-back rate is low.
4. There is virtually 0 market for poisons.
5. They do not stack (at least pre-PoP, I haven't looked into PoP poisons yet).
6. To be useful in the field, a poison-maker must carry a bunch of ingredients around with them all the time.
7. Poisons are easily resisted by mobs that you might actually want to use them on. Even a slight movement while they proc results in an interrupt.
Synopsis: Poison-making is a fun diversion from grinding exp. You won't make any money from it. In fact, you will spend lots of money on it. It has a limited use. I pursue it because I have fun incapacitating the occasional mob.

Alchemy:
1. Almost all components are vendor bought.
2. Components are very expensive.
3. Skill up rate is as low as poisons and sell-back rate is much lower.
4. The rate on successful combines, even on very trivial potions, are much lower than poisons.
5. There is a market for a few potions, however those potions have low trivials for the most part.
6. Potions combine into stacks of 5 and 10.
7. Potions offer a wide variety of effects, though for a high cost.
Synopsis: Alchemy is a disappointing diversion from grinding experience. You can make some money on it, but there is no need to skill above about 70-80 in skill. It has limited use and I rarely use any potions myself.

I'm not sure I would call them "broken," but they are certainly both disappointing, considering the amount of time and plat I've sunk in each. People who have pursued poisons to 250 and alchemy to 180 must be real gluttons for punishment, I can't fathom doing either. Though I haven't really investigated PoP tradeskills, I do know that there is only one Shaman "potion" discovered, though it is really more of a component to a magicial spell. Rogue poisons have had another level added and from what I gather, the high level poisons are now stackable. I'd say each is due for some changes to make each of them more enjoyable, whether it be lowering the cost, making skillups come faster, increasing their usefulness, or what have you. Hodur Wisepaw
Level 54

Darkefang Stickypaws ()
Level 43
Cazic Thule

[EZ_Decrescendo]

People only ask for sow and shrink? In that case, raise the trivial level for sow and shrink to 180. That way you have an incentive to GM alchemy and are making a desired product =) Problem fixed, and youre welcome. Decrescendo
57 Blackguard[/b]
New Elements of Power[/b]
[/b]

[EZ_Kragmire]

I guess the biggest issues:

1) You cannot GM in alchemy. The skill is capped at 180. Therefore even if you WANTED to skill up for lower failures, you can't.

2) There is no GM trophy for alchemy. Not a huge issue since it is easy enough to get other trophies if you desire (with the same stats) but disappointing for a roleplayer.

3) Over time, many new skills and abilities have eroded the limited functionality of alchemy. I know, cry me a river, but I haven't made a potion in years. Here are a few examples:

Shrink? Why? Can now cast indoors and outdoors (recent change). I guess some tank might still want it at some point for kicks. Of course, that's assuming he just doesn't get a 10 charge one off the shrooms in FG (since when do 10 charge potions drop off mobs?)

SoW? Why? Enhanced run speed is better and doesn't cost anything (recent change). I guess some newb might buy it - but it is not cheap.

Gate potions? Why? Pottery items now let you gate safely without requiring charges (recent change). Of course potions cannot be interrupted, etc, so they might still be wanted, but at several hundred plat per make attempt, they are not for the faint of heart.

Stat potions? Why? With the last two expansions new levels and new spells have been added with much greater effect. Also, new items and other trade skill have ecclipsed many potions' effectiveness (baked items, etc). Am I really going to make a +10 stat potion when I can cast Avatar for less cost?

The only thing that potions still do well appears to be due to stacking. Somehow or other some rare DS potions, etc, stack with other DS. They are not high power, and they cost an arm and a leg, but they have their one-day-per-year effectiveness.

Edited by: Kragmire at: 11/12/02 1:32:27 pm

[EZ_Vaslin]

> SoW? Why? Enhanced run speed is better

SoW is 55% run speed. Run3 is 30%.

> Shrink? Why?

So I don't have to bug anyone when our raid needs to shrink. Always have one on hand and our local magician goes and buys them for resale during raids.

[TeanninBramblefeet]

Quote:Gate potions? Why? Pottery items now let you gate safely without requiring charges (recent change).

What pottery items are these exactly? I'd like to get my hands into some of those...
Teannin Bramblefeet
Level 56 Rogue of Bristlebane in the realm of Morell Thule
Grandmaster Potter (250)
Grandmaster Toxicologist (228)
Proud member of Black Claws

Protector of the non Safe Fallers



Backstab watch:
.................................................. ..........................|467

[EZ_Artistikone]

Maybe he's talking about Faithstones/Thurg gate potions?

[EZ_Leandred]

Checkout the Coldain Shawl quest....
Leandred Cerwelan
Lord Protector of Tunare
Remedy @ Nameless

[EZ_Goradain]

Thurg Gate potions require a 120 skill (took me about 5pp and an hour to do it with less than 50WIS/INT). The components aren't too difficult to farm even for a soloing Warrior. I keep one on me at all times.

I have invested quite a bit of plat into SoW potions since I gave up on ever getting JBoots. I refuse to waste XP in AA until I hit level 60 at least. SoW potions are very nice, but like he said, they trivial pretty low.

I am also quite dissapointed with Alchemy. I've never done it, but most of the effects can be found on fairly common items anyway. There seems to be nothing really unique about the skill. And all those port potions that Verant added a while back are now pointless with PoK and the Nexus. Goradain - 58 Myrmidon of Rallos Zek
Proud member of Steel Thunder