First Major Arena Topic! <POISONS>

[EZ_Madeline TZ]

I'll start off with a few of my own thoughts on the subject!

By far one of my favorite poisons is the muscle lock series. Any seasoned PvPer knows that movement and response time is the most important aspect in PvP combat, possibly only seconded by overall equipment. poisons coupled with proper use of your own skills can easily swing the battle in your favor.

I also personally enjoy the weakening poisons as many people tend to carry 2-4 different sets of equipment with them. Clerics in particular are especially suceptable to this as their rate of movement decreaases which makes things easier on interupts and to make up for environment to player reaction time.

When using poisons you have to try to get the most out of them. Poisons are best used indoors as movement speed increasing spells are useless indoors and are usually the first to be dispelled by the use of pumice. Remember that poison is only discharged as soon as an autoattack swing is sucessful, so after applying poison you still have the use of backstab till you have reached your target.

Poisons and pets, don't bother trying to kill off or poison pets. Your best bet is to keep your instill doubt at max skill and fear the pet in quick order. Remember, the pet does not have to be targeted for the begining of your ID cycle but onl for the end of the cycle where rolls are made on sucess. ATK raising spells are especially nice in improving the sucess of ID.

It is best to open your attack with a BS and poison right afterwards on your target. I follow this order simply because rooting people tends to make them incredible defensive in where their back is turned. Fast weapons are important against caster classes as sucessful hits are often and over time. High speed weapons do more damage over time on players with low AC, witch brings me to my third favorite poisons, Brittle Haste. This poison is rarely removed but does increase the speed in witch players die. This is especially favored on pure caster classes with already low AC and on clerics. Use this often in heavy melee PK groups.

Alot of people like blind poisons but personally I do not favor them. It is best to use this in a confined area I think away from zone lines. Since deaths to envionment do not lead in exp death, I would often use this in water zones and in zones with many cliffs. I would use this in those places with lava but due to the difficulty of corpse recovery I tend to refrain from that.

Hit and run poison attacks I personally think are a waste. Since rogues are built like assasins it is best to take a target out before one can call for help. Our strength comes from causing our target to stay in constant movement, limiting their abilities. Few spell dependant classes manage to balance their offensive tactics to proide for themselves a good defense. Thats why, once an attack is made known a rogue must act quickly to silence their target and before they can gather their wis on what they have available to them.

Poisons on melee classes should be restricted to those that do damage, imobilize, and taking away their ability to take in the envoronment. Due to the difficulty to give melee classes a quick death and our lack of HPs, it is best to minimize your availability of yourself to their weapons. I suggest that you think more about movement then poison and damage will come in as a byproduct of your skill.

Oh well pick this apart if you want and put in your own thoughts =)


Madeline Lovelyheart
Safehouse Warden of Tallon Zek

[EZ_Dove Whispersilk]

the problem with movement poisons, ive found, is they wear off WAY too fast against anyone with a poison resist of 50 or higher. I like contact IV (445 DD) much better for dueling prepaired opponents. However if the person your jumping has a low poisons resist muscle lock IV might be better, I havent done any testing against ppl with low resists.
Dove the Silent, rank 58 Blackguard of Terris-Thule

[EZ_Madeline TZ]

Heh the trick is to not use rooting poisons against an oponant that's expecting to get attacked! I've noticed the same thing but I found that the damage done in the few seconds of being rooted and the fact that SoW has been droped makes it worthwhile, especially inside dungeons where jboots can not be used. I find that if the person you're attacking has 50 or less MR then it tends to stick a while. Oh and remember to dispell that DMF before atempting to poison =P

[Fricka]

Well written Madeline! I agree with the weaken line of spells. Restricting movement is key.

I have yet to use a blindness poison on an opponent but I often fight with a Shaman who has the blindness spell and it works wonders to confuse an opponent as you resposition your force. The blindness potion, I believe lasts even longer than the blindness spell so I would think this would be even more of a benefit?
Fricka
Shanks - Vallon Zek Ring Warden
Fricka curtsies elegantly...while picking your pocket

[EZ_Madeline TZ]

Aparently the duration of the blind poisons are just like the spells. At least in all my tests. I have not retested recently but I think some poison duration checks and durations are still checked against MR rather then PR as they should be. I hope that this gets looked over when there's time for the programers.

On a side not tho, I was thinking of writing another one of these things on PvP movement. Tho I haven't perfected it yet but have a good general grasp of it. Maybe one of you other lurkers want to take a crack at it =).

[EZ_Ithan]

Darkness and muscle lock sound the most resonable in this case, first of all, what happens when an opponent is blind, he/she will get scared and either try thier lick and stay in the same position thinking you'll do the same, yeah right! or he/she will run, in which case his back is open and BAM! backstabby time.

[EZ_Madeline TZ]

The thing with poisons is that all of my resists are often over 100. Blind and root spells don;t last very long on me if they stick at all.

[EZ_Dove Whispersilk]

The way Blind spell works (at least the way it worked 6 months ago) is when your blind, you are able to attack 360 degrees around you.

If you blind a fighter, and then go start wacking on their back, sure you will be able to backstab - but as long as they have auto attack on they will be able to hit you too.

I dont know why its done like this, but I find it makes blind poison useless. When I duel I like to hit the opponent without getting hit myself. When they are blind they can get attacks off on me from all directions, even if Im standing directly behind them! It just sucks. Edited by: Dove Whispersilk at: 12/10/00 1:12:18 am

[Fricka]

Dove, the majority of my targets are casters.

They tend to be the "stay in one place type"... thereby considerately letting me manuever behind their back. They rarely have auto attack on, as well, so coming in for some nice damage is easily done without getting any in return. So, against casters (albeit perhaps only the ones I have encountered), blind poison may be a good one to keep in your arsenal.
Fricka
Shanks - Vallon Zek Ring Warden
Fricka curtsies elegantly...while picking your pocket

[EZ_Madeline TZ]

Yah, the most threatening targets are often casters. Also they are the easiest to kill quickly. A battle with another Melee class is more dependant on buffs, and who is suporting the oposing sides. Any smart warrior will travel with a healer of some sort. monnks and rogues are the few that can do enough damage to kill most other classes quickly enough without support.

SKs are decent at lower levels but once you have that resist gear, they better be well equiped to handle you. Paladins are awfully resiliant but it requires alot of patience and the ability to place the oponant a favorable circumtnace. Bards are incredibly anoying but can be deadly if yer not smart and can be incredibly easy to kill if they're not wise.

The apeal about a rogue in PvP is that they have the ability to kill a target before they can use any of or exhaust any of their options. Killing another character after they've fully buffed themselves and are now at full mana before they can sucessfully manage to get a spell off is what a rogue on a PvP server is all about.

Rarrely is a PvP rogue a master of sneaky and silent attacks but more the quick and deft killer that will not be denied. Remember, stick like glue but be slippery as a gerbal dipped in salad dressing in a barrel of fish being thrown at sea monkeys.

[EZ_Mordier]

Is that true about blinded victims(that they attack 360 degrees)? I never knew that. Huh, well my usual response to being blinded is to stay put, maybe turn a little bit, but not run until it's gone. It'd probably be different if I was a caster, but I'm a melee player so I might as well go toe-toe until I can see again.

Movran

[EZ_MajestykVZ]

I do a constant circle strafe when blinded, unless there is someplace I'd rather be that was in the dirction I was facing when blinded or I'm in an area that makes that impractical.

Almost all my opponents seem to be able to hit me within a 360 degre radius, blind or not.

So far my preference has been for the blind. The total lack of perception on there part usually keeps them immobile anyway. Majestyk, Rogue, Shanks, Vallon Zek!We as Shanks, have chosen the hard path. In the hardness of it, is where we find the glory.

[EZ_Madeline TZ]

Heh, without sow and against a warrior, I've gone thru an entire duel with only taking 2 hits from the warrior and finishing him off . All it takes is for you to know the exact radious someones range of attack is and yer own. Being able to move properly is something you learn after being in hundreds apon hundred of battles with every class imaginable.

Heck, I was filling an empty slot in the rogue BotB tourney on TZ and against a level 56 or so Dark Elven rogue I think I only bit a single BS while he ate 5. And he only got 1 chance at BS while I had like 10 =P. Learning how to move can be very important.

[EZ_malwae]

-----Remember, stick like glue but be slippery as a gerbal dipped in salad dressing in a barrel of fish being thrown at sea monkeys.------


So that's your secret, Madeline!!!! I'll bring my gerbil repellant next time I see you in Skyshrine.

This kind of becomes an entirely different discussion on a non PvP server. My problem with poisons is the time it takes to choose the appropriate one for the situation, apply, and then close in. Being more of the pickpocketing , "obsessed with shiny things", "who me, do battle, are you crazy? I might mess up my hair" sort of rogue, most of my PvP situations occur with some druid snaring me as I dash madly across Eastern Wastelands. Because of my roleplay persona, the only time I really jump people is when I think they might have money, and if I think I can get away with it. Or if somebody attacks my friends, which is still kind of out of character for me, but whatever.

On a blue server, you aren't going to be attacking other people unless you are dueling or if you are hanging out in an arena, in which case you at least know that you are about to tangle with somebody. You have a bit of time to prepare, and you probably aren't going to accept the duel until you are at least within stabbing proximity. The thing that gets me is those damn enchanters and druids, casting on me from some far away hill. In this case, even if I manage to break root and close in on them, I won't have time to apply poison. And since different poisons are effective against different classes, it's kind of a crap shoot, right after I cross the bridge into EW, on guessing which type of player is likely to attack me on my way to Kael. Plus, poison disappears when you zone, so I kind of hate to waste it being prepared just in case some lightie catches me.

I've seen they way Madeline PvPs, and I can see how poison would be very effective for her. I think if you are playing an assassin sort who is purposefully seeking victims, poisons would be extremely useful. My rogue just wants lots of shiny things, and isn't smart enough to have figured out that she will get more shiny things if she just gets off her ass and starts killing humans.

[EZ_Cylant]

Thanks for the tips madeline - i'm going to start carrying around more of the class-specific poisons now rather than just root/blind/snare. Cylant Butdeadly
50th Thief
Rallos Zek

[EZ_Thief of Souls]

Bling poison works wonders on pets as an initial attack on a pet wielder. Only draw back is you have to chase the SoB around to killem after that. Buy them sow potions =P

58 Dorf ROAG! Shadowshank Stabbins Vallon Zek

Actually, at the high end of the spectrum, bards are probably the most deadly opponent there is.

My friend dropped my MR down to 20 from 120 the other day.

Those increased resist debuffs that they were given with the enchanters make their mez a very disgusting thing. Let alone they can charm crap onto you. Bleh.

Very nasty. If you cant kill them in 6 seconds, run like your life depends on it.. because it does.

-L

[coyoteblack]

Come on Legna I think you can kill anyone in 6 seconds your famous!!!!

Coyoteblacls skill at kissing up for a tracks tooth as improved!
Coyoteblack is now master!!!

doh!! pissed off JALEST
LOADING PLEASE WAIT

" No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style" -- Vlad Taltos

[EZ_Thisle]

Mad,

For caster i use weaken II. I lowers there str enough to where 90% of the time they are encubered and are snared. Lasts alot longer than Spinebreak, plus i prefer them to move around while snared like that. Its harder to get a spell off ( if youve ever been snared and trying to cast spells youll know what i mean..)

Ill generally use spinebreak on a warrior or somthing like that in the opening battle. Esspecially the Larger races just because they like to use the Weighted axe. Most of the time they wont switch out and keep the axe wielded. So spinebreak works well there.

As for DD poisons....my rogue is only 34 and DD poison only does about 100hp pvp dmg. Great for if somone is about half life and sitting down. Other wise ill stick with spinebreak. Plus spinebreak is just really easy to get

Next im thinking about trying some DOT poisons and see where that gets me. Anyone know any good high dmg dot poisons that are easy to get I'm just someone you love to hate-Thisle Sprout, giving free ports to bind points since 1999 .Destroyer of The Highland Army Officer of Merciless Midgets, the one and only true short pk guild of Tallon Zek. Centin- You are MY desire.

[EZ_Madeline TZ]

The thing is at my level, casters are rarely encumbered. They usually manage a decent amount of strength just from aquiring decent gear and usually their gear doesn't weigh much.

The average caster in my guild probably has like 30/90 or something to that effect. At lower levels I bet this would work better as you must pick up everything you can in order to make money.

DoT poisons I have found a nice use for tho. They can take up a top buff slot if the oponant is expecting you and any firther DoTs may not be in a top slot, causing them to have to strip their buffs to get it off. Using a combo of seeinvis cast and poison, I can take up the usualy top 2 buff slots someone keeps free durring a PvP battle.

I have taken down many people of all classes using this trick with the asistance of a druid or necro.


Hope this helps