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View Full Version : Lum the Mad interview - snippet concerning PvP


Kambic
05-20-01, 07:33 PM
Alright I know there was a link to this in the other thread, but there was a lot of new things unearthed here (that or confirmed) so I'm posting the full PvP part:

Lum: What kind of PvP stuff do you have going in with this? I remember reading that you basically have two factions with this world, have you done any development on that yet?

Abashi: Uh, the PvP stuff that’s been mentioned with Luclin was actually a misunderstanding.

Lum: Well, I remember the rumor that the whole thing would be arena-type free PvP zones. But I mean aside from that, are there going to be any PvP enhancements?

Abashi: Not as part of Luclin. We are doing a new PvP server in the near future. It will probably come out in two to three weeks, maybe a bit longer. I can give you the skinny on that new rule set, it hasn’t been announced yet.

Lum: Sure.

Abashi: There’s still a couple of aspects that are a little bit tentative, but this is the general direction that we’re going for. A Deity-teams server. It will be based on your religion. We’ll have good, neutral and evil as the split. Which team they’ll apply to, we’ll release that later. We’re going with full PvP. You can kill anyone at any level. A level 60 could kill a level 1 if he wanted to, or a whole slew of level ones could…

Lum: What’s going to keep a level 60 warrior from harvesting the newbie spawn?

Abashi: The question would be, what would be the point?

Lum: That’s a good question with a lot of things about PvP!

Abashi: Loot rights will apply still for plus or minus five levels.

Lum: So you can attack someone, just not loot them.

Abashi: Right. We’re leaning towards coin-only for that loot for right now. There will be experience loss when dying to someone plus or minus 5 levels. It was the only way we could think of to address the naked mage syndrome. There has to be some way of inflicting loss.

Lum: Would there be some timer on that, to prevent corpse camping?

Abashi: No, players will have to learn when that occurs, and learn how to get out of that situation. In the case of the level 60 camping the newbie spawn, sooner or later word will get out and other 60s will come and get him. We will have ways of promoting PvP. I haven’t talked yet about any of the advantages we’re adding, which I’m about to get to. Also, as part of this, by the way, we’re getting rid of all the customer service rules associated with PvP. So training, rules against training, rules against bind point camping, zone camping, all of that will go away.

Lum: So those become strategies, basically.

Abashi: Those become strategies. People will engage in them as they see fit. Snaring the kiting druid, which right now could get you suspended or worse, will be a very legal strategy. The only thing that customer service will get involved in is real-world harassment situations. Common decency things. For advantages for PvP. We’re not going to do experience gain. We’ve ruled that out completely. We are talking about what we call an insignia based system. Where when you loot the coin off a fallen foe you will get an insignia of your deity. And we’re talking about turning that in for a faction boost, and once you get past a certain point you get benefits, open up quests that were no longer available to you, that type of thing. The other thing that we’re talking about doing, and actually working on implementing now, is logging all the PvP kills. And then we’re going to parse that log and keep a leader board on the Station. People will be able to see where they stand in their guild, where their guild stands overall, where their team stands overall, that type of thing. So back to your original question, the level 60 guy harvesting the newbie log in Nektulos is going to sooner or later get some person on the opposing team to cap him, because that 60 guy is worth some good points.

Lum: Is there going to be any kind of story line, events that the GMs are going to run with this?

Abashi: I don’t know. It’s really.. this is being entirely driven by the development team right now, specific dynamic quests will become more of a reality. I can see us sending dynamic quest people on there…

Lum: Things like mass invasions, that type of thing.

Abashi: Yeah. I hope to see a lot of that. Basically what we’re looking for is a way to encourage PvP in Everquest, and fix some of the problems that people are experiencing. By the way I want to mention that with the new server, the teams will be locked down. You will not be able to cast beneficial spells on opposing team members.

Lum: Can different teams group together, can they send /tells to each other?

Abashi: We’re talking about completely eliminating cross-team grouping, but we aren’t going to stop tells.

Lum: I’ve heard one rumor that you were even thinking of getting rid of Common completely.

Abashi: That’s what we’re looking at for the next server down the line, we’re calling it the RP server, for lack of a better term, which will probably involve the Deity Team model but without PvP.

Lum: So there would be no crossteaming but no PvP either.

Abashi: That would basically be the model, yes. We are using the new server as an experiment, to see what we can implement. I’ve mentioned the rules to a number of people at the show, and even talking about experience loss and all of that, it’s actually getting a good reception so far.

Lum: It sounds interesting so far.

Abashi: We sat down and talked about it, and one thing that Everquest really lacked is the way to inflict losses on one another. That might not be a politically correct thing for people to do, but that is one reason why people play PvP.

Lum: Behavior modification.

Abashi: Yeah. I hope to see this new server as kind of the ultimate RP server. Back to Luclin, [blah blah more Luclin crap].

All I am sayin is the potential is unlimitied, but a single griefer is going to make it a ghost server. If playing a griefer wasn't lucrative now, think about it when the GM's will applaud you for what you have done, or when you bind point-camp that level 2 guy JUST FOR THE HECK OF IT (and if Verant doesn't think that people will do that then [CENSORED PERSONAL ATTACK]!).

From this interview, Rallos looks so much better then how I have thought of it for the last two years. I'll probably make an alt or something for when RZ is down or I can't get a group or whatnot just to have a character (my only character) that I will purposefully ruin his reputation for the spiteful but sincere purpose of showing that, even though I am doing it to prove people wrong, I'll be one of many to do what people say will not be done (that is, have a character with a bad reputation). Ok well maybe not but if I am ever bored or something hehe ;p



"Its not that I dont think you have the guts to come to rallos, I
just want you to come so I can kick yer arse is all."-Diabalein Avidya

freonsmurf
05-21-01, 03:34 AM
Hail the end of EQ pvp.

Funny the thing about gettin a isginia(player head) and turning it in for a reward(exp) and gettin bonus's and quest for killing people.


WOW Sounds like DaOC!!
'
A leader board on the station?


LOL, The twink monk with the most kills this month is TwinkOfubernecro!

In second place, we have the most kills as a tie between twinkportal camp and twinkexp loss!


They are giving up, basically saying" OK People whine and moan to much, but if there are no rules what can they whine about?"

Killed me naked 5 times while I try to loot my corpse? Strategy!
Train guards on me while your friend roots me? Strategy!

Sit at the portal with AoE's loaded? Strategy!

And this still dont give a damn about cross teaming!
Your in our world now!

Rodcet Nife Ring Warden

Wixramiablo Sneakypants
"Nicotine is not addictive" Tobacco Industry
"Rogues are a balanced class"-Gordon
My Sigs

Kambic
05-21-01, 04:51 AM
Yeah hmm maybe I will play a monk, and when I pop up the first time I am destroying everything but my food/water. I won't worry about gear, so I am not attached to some piddly corpse mwuahahaha! I can start pk'ing straight from my bind point! *evil cackling laugh slowly fades*

If you didn't think that EQ was ONLY about loot, then read the interview. From what is gathered there, Verant thinks that PvP is centered around loot. Hello guys, people kill each other for various reasons and (on Rallos) it's often times TO PISS YOU OFF. Well, yes, PvP is often centered on loot, but if there isn't loot involved it's not going stop PvP. And guess what type of PvP that isn't centered around loot is called? Generally, griefing.

Hail a_crock_01

EZ_Aerimus Shadowborn
05-21-01, 05:21 AM
OMG so if my rogue were on Death to you all Zek I could kill all the newbies I run by with a backstab

whack dead
whack dead
whack dead

Gotto get those points somehow!

Pvp not centered around loot is...

Guild wars
Settling disputes
Dealing with @#%$
Fighting over a contested spawn

Every one more fun than fighting off that wizard trying to nuke you while your fighting.

EZ_Ceescrit da Bossalini
05-21-01, 06:19 AM
Abashi is a moron. [b]Ceescrit Bossalini
Crime Boss of Vallon Zek
>Illuvitae

Kambic
05-21-01, 10:13 AM
Amen Ceescrit

Marbh
05-21-01, 12:18 PM
I have never seen anyone try and kill anybody in Pvp to irrtate them. We have entire servers full of reformed souls, holy nuns, and reincarnated Bhoddisatvas. Why would a lvl 60 necro ever consider nuking entire zones of people way below his level. There is no challenge, and thus it will not happen. Bullies only pick on people that can fight back.

/sarcasm off

Someone musical write me some lyrics for a DAoC I'm comin song.

EZ_Elegance
05-21-01, 01:23 PM
casting outside the PvP limit range.

No common language.

Some form of "Loot and Scoot" hard coded.

Priest of Discord or similar NPC offer binding in cities.

All classes share the same bind point restrictiions.

Hide immune to see invis.

Out of Line of Sight casting hard coded out.

Throwing immune to damage shields.

1 the melee range issue where a caster can stand outside of melee range but inside missile range and nuke the piss outta ya.
2 the bug where you are chaseing a caster and are pushing up against his back and STILL gettin the your target is out of range message thus preventing you from beating the piss outa him
3 casting from Walls/rooftops/other exploits along this line. give guards the ability to shadow step or gate or what ever to get up onto the wall/roof and beat the pisss outa the exploiter in question.
4 Evade should remove you from the target list.
5 hide should be see invis proof or at least have a lvl based chance of failing against rogue hide.
6 bows and throwing weapons should have that damn "your taget is to far above/below you" crap fixed. your SUPPOSED to rain death from above with a freakin bow.
7 Do not make it team like the team servers are. it limits the tactics you can employ durring pvp. i.e. myself and a friend get attacked by a chanter who starts by mezin my friend. so I bash him to break mez...that poor chanter. you cant do that on the team servers and it blows
8 I forget what 8 was for
9 remove zone camping/pulling the plug, make em pop out the otherside and fight as if they were ld. I'm sick of this cheesy lame escape.




not trying to hijack a post here but not one of these issues is being addressed. and they are putting some crap that as usuall the players were not asked for opinions on and will have huge issues with, typical vi for ya.

"Abashi is a moron."


/agree Diabalein Avidya
Practicing Proctologist for 33 Lvls Of Pure Anal Probing Fun
161 Points of Loving, Hand Delivered on the End of a Sharp Stick

Lisboa
05-21-01, 02:25 PM
Actually Elegance, most of the new server attributes came from player suggestions on their message boards. The hard coded teams, the deity based teams, the one character per server, and the lack of a common language (which makes little sense if it's deity based).

I'm not sure where they came up with the idea for 60 levels of p v p idea--wasn't that your idea?

Kambic
05-21-01, 02:36 PM
With a few tweaks they could have the awesomest PvP server out there. But, no, they have to implement stupid crap because they are too lazy to actually fix their own problems (ie bind point camping, zone/portal camping, training, etc.); they rule these illegal, but since they don't police it they think the only other option is to legalize it.

Um, crack is pretty easy to hide, but that doesn't make it legal.

I swear they wrote down a list of awesome ideas, then drank a six pack each and smoked some crack and speed, then "tweaked" their list.

/em moans and shakes her head ruefully

EZ_Dorkmid
05-22-01, 02:19 PM
This is basically a 'glass half empty, glass half full' issue.

I prefer to not make any assumptions until I've been on the server a while... Dorkmid High Elf Magician

Kambic
05-22-01, 03:49 PM
I think it's more like:

Abashi says "WHAT??? You think our glasses are half empty? Well they're NOT! They are half FULL! But fine, if you want to believe THAT, the you can have THIS server!"

*Abashi produces another glass, fills it to the brim with water*

*PvP Players are ecstatic*

Abashi says "Now, if you thought the other glasses were half empty, when they were really half full, watch THIS!"

*Abashi produces a sledgehammer*

---

Need I finish the story?

EZ_Elegance
05-23-01, 01:29 AM
"I'm not sure where they came up with the idea for 60 levels of p v p idea--wasn't that your idea?"


um NO!

my complaint isnt so much with the lame ass rule set (OK I HAVE that to complain about but) its the fact that they are not addressing the acctual pvp issues that piss off players the most, read my post again. the stuff about melee range and the like.

I never thought I'd see a server that made me say "Damn they got it BAD over there" I mean hell I play on Rallos after all.
Diabalein Avidya
Practicing Proctologist for 33 Lvls Of Pure Anal Probing Fun
161 Points of Loving, Hand Delivered on the End of a Sharp Stick

05-23-01, 01:55 AM
Well, the melee range and such would not be a server specific change. So if it does go in, you wouldnt see it in relation to a single server.

1 char per server. server related issue. (and I like)
1-60 pvp. server related. (and I like)
xploss on death within 5 level (and I like)
hard coded teams (and I like)
no common (worthless because people will just emote, but I like the concept)

religion based. I like.
The illegal becomming legal. Well, being there was no way for them to enforce it anyhow, what difference does it make?

All in all, the server is great. Even tho it is more or less just a step closer to daoc. how many months until christmas?

-L

Kambic
05-23-01, 08:07 AM
Yeah but you can't emote thru tells and guildchat :)

Anyway, it's hard to enforce lots of rules but that doesn't make them legal....

EZ_Maximilean
05-23-01, 12:47 PM
If this madness actually goes into effect, Rallos players won't be able to be the "hardcore real men" players any more

IMO, they should limit XP-loss killing to within 1-2 levels of each other... That's going to suck. Especially if someone twinks (someone with multiple accounts or who ebays) and levels using death-tokens.

It's all very bold but it might not fly like this. Sure, people can say they are more hardcore than Rallos after a bored 50 Necro chops up a newbie dungeon for 2 hours and lets everyone's corpses decay, but how fun is that, really? If some players took the time on Vallon to delevel from level 35 down to 5 just to grief the hell out of newbies fresh into the game, imagine what people will do when it poses no inconvience at all to just pop into a lowbie zone and slaughter everyone a few times?

Abashi's famous "other level 50s" show up? First off, anti-pk posses don't always form at all, on VZ in my experience. And even if they do, "A_bored_50_necro00"
just casts gate, funs over. And how many corpses will get lost in this fashion by people who had to go to work or something?

In one sense, I agree that the use of GMs to prevent cheese tactics is a waste of effort and an imperfect solution. But the answer isn't to give up, or to continue as it is, it's to hard-code the illegal behavior. Perhaps player-killed players should ghost-mode for a certain appropriate amount of time, or for that matter, not even lose their equipment to the corpse, only their coin. Those would eliminate bind-rushing and corpse-camping right there, and no more /shouts of "CR!" and "LnS you sux0r gnome!"

Put neutral uber-powered Guards of Discord around teleportation rings that either attack anyone who acts aggressive in the area or at least who agro on anyone AOE nuking.

An even better solution for all portal ganking would be a "PVP-Free Zone," the exact opposite of a PVP Arena on a blue server.

NOW, obviously everyone would suddenly migrate to these PVP-Free areas for auctioning and run to them when they were attacked or use them as a safe ganking method etc. etc. etc., but wouldn't the disadvantages be outweighed by the end of portal ganking and the end of GMs dealing (or not) with it?

Just some thoughts. I'm not the biggest PVP veteran in the world but I've given it some thought.

Also, this new server had better not be the only reform to PVP - if it absorbs all the attention and PVP Teams servers are left as-is I'll be unimpressed, especially if the new server isn't even any good.

EZ_Zoggynog
05-23-01, 02:14 PM
Well....this is pretty much my first post, Ill try and keep brief. Am I the only person looking forward to this server?
It seems like a server you want to participate in the first day it comes out. If you try and jump on later you will be left behind. I know right now a good friend who plays an enchanter on Tallon Zek and can't wait for the new server. He wants to play somewhere with a fresh economy void of twink who resist every cast at 10th level. Truth is, this server will wind up all twinked up just like the others, but at least if you start day one, you have the oppertunity to twink yourself. Of all the reasons I am going to join this server, playing on a PVP with a new economy is #1

EZ_Tular the Most Ill
05-23-01, 02:36 PM
It will be great for the first people to start that have no lives and can play 24/7, it will suck for the rest of us.

EZ_Zoggynog
05-23-01, 04:02 PM
Look at it this way...if it's gonna be such a griefers haven, all the griefers will be on this server, and allow the all you others who cant handle em (or dont want to) to go on with less grief. Maybe this server should not be considered a great place to go for casual gamers. It's only one server. And BTW im not a griefer or a power gamer, but im gonna be on it for the same reason I originaly chose to play a rogue, I like my challanges as tough as I can get em. I'm a bit insane that way. No one is forcing you to jump to this server, if this is too rough pvp for you, ya can always go to Tallon Or Vallon and X team to yer hearts content...and with the new server all the casual gamers should have a much easier time if they stay where they are.

EZ_Cylant
05-23-01, 05:11 PM
A darkenbaner succumbs to the lure of ganking!
Darkenbane has been slain by the new server!
yay!

EZ_Rylassin
05-23-01, 10:58 PM
Ok just a few comments I have.

First no where in the token stuff does it say that you will get exp. It says that you can turn them in for faction. There are several quests out now that gives faction but not exp as a reward.

Secondly I think it would be great for new PvP players do to the fact that it is a new economy. And if they limit it to one character on the server then I can see less twinking on the server. Now I do see some twinking, but that will be those that have the money to spend on gettign a second account set up. Hard to twink a second char if your limited to one char per account on the server.

Lastly I would like to see the new zone they are talking about for trades/auctions as a non pvp area and also have only merchants and bankers in the area. Would really hate to be buying itemX from someone and then get ganked before I can do the trade or sell itemX then get ganked and lose the cash I just got.

I am looking forward to it, do to those reason and if I new about EQ and the diffrence in the servers when I first started playing I would have been on Rallos from day one.

Anyways off I go......

EZ_Maximilean
05-23-01, 11:49 PM
And here we are; "real men" (sorry ladies) are to go to this server while the mild-mannered Clark Kent types should stay on VZ/TZ and X-team? I find it lovely to think that some people equate disagreeing with the insanity of this new "ruleset" with cross-teaming...

What precisely is so macholy edifying about every cheap, lame, any-fool-can-do it trick in the book suddenly being legal? Are you going to stop a monk training you with the force of your personality?

Will you learn a valuable lesson about the fleeting nature of worldly belongings when someone 20 levels above you uses wind spells to turf you into lava, or corpse camps you?

It's momentarily seductive for the wildness of the proposition, but... abandoning every single rule will mean total frustration. They will bring back rules, or the new server will fail utterly, though I'm sure they wouldn't allow that.

Itzena
05-24-01, 05:01 AM
And I want to know why everyone thinks the griefers will leave a server where they can use their grief 'tactics' without people answering in kind?

If a griefer traina a mob onto someone on VZ, the victim petitions and maybe a GM answers in an hour or so with "I didn't see anything, so I can't help you"

If the same griefer pulls the same stunt on the new Zek, the victims guild hunts down the griefer, roots him in front of the next mob he tries to train, then corpse-camps him until he learns his lession...

EZ_Dorkmid
05-24-01, 10:39 AM
You should have added:

...or delevels him/her to lvl 1.

The key to success on the new server (for those who don't have a life and can't play 24/7) is to hook up with a steady group. A group that has the right skills and abilities, and that consistently hunts together.

Dealing with the zone line gankers will be easy compared to dealing with 70 Iggles blasting through and razing a zone. Strength in numbers is the key. Dorkmid High Elf Magician

Kambic
05-24-01, 02:33 PM
As such why I plan to swell the numbers of the guild I am making from the beginning. The more, the merrier and the stronger :)