Rogues, Good for PvP?

[EZ_ChamelionIronfists]

I plan on starting on the new PvP server as soon as it comes out, in the guild screams. I hear it is going to be a very hardcore server with barely any rules.

Now, to the point. I have never played a rogue in PvP before and was wondering how I would do. I know they will never be as good as a necro or shaman, but can they hold their own or are they just target practice.

I am going to be in a strong guild however, and we will be grouping together about every chance we get. This is why I am leaning twoards a rogue. (They are my favorite class and work well in groups)

I just really want to know if I am going to be able to hold my own if I am not with other guild members.

Now, just so you know, Im not talking about perfect examples.. (where a rogue gets the first BS on a medding caster, without a pet, and lands a snare poison on them..)

Just looking for the truth. I would hate to play another class, but I will play a shaman if I am going to get smoked all the time as a rogue. I was also considering an SK but, I don't think they are going to be neutral.

thanks for the advice

[EZ_Dove Whispersilk]

Until people start getting good amount of resist gear into the economy (which will take a few months) casters are going to dominate.

Rogues are actually pretty bad at pvp between levels 1-50. almost any other melee class would be better. but for 51+ (and especially 55+) rogues really start to shine and are quite deadly, pvp and pvm. It really just depends on if you can wait that long for your character to fully develop.
Dove the Silent - Assassin of Clan Ta`Veren on Terris-Thule

[EZ_Lirin TZ]

rogues imho are the most gear-heavy PvP class. peircers with good dammage are rare at low levels, therefor a rogues main dammage(backstab) is limited.

like dove said, casters WILL dominate the PvP aspect, but melees will still be needed much in PvE. that is one of the reasons i am makeing a warrior, there will be few of them i think, and a good tank is needed in most cases. people who start one early will have an advantage over those who wait for gear to start circulateing. Lirin AzamiaReaper of Tunarewww.ClanofNobles.com

[EZ_Triff]

Quote: I know they will never be as good as a necro or shaman, but can they hold their own or are they just target practice.
I haven't dueled a necro since before they even get DMF (it was level 43 though), and I killed him.. higher level necros kinda scare me, but I've never gotten a chance to see.

But the last shaman I dueled... she ended up conceding, and told me it was the best duel she'd ever had.

/ru

:P


/blue-posting-on-red-board mode off
Level 55 Soloing Rogue (), Erollisi Marr
Always lookin for a duel :)When people ask me why one would want to be a rake, I tell them I get to lie in a shed with a hoe all day.Edited by: Triff at: 6/3/01 6:44:03 pm

[EZ_ChamelionIronfists]

Im wondering, what level did you duel this shaman. I know that 50+, the Shaman can Slow you down 50-70%, lower your resists dramatically (even more so with the new resist changes) has a pet that can tank quite well, has regen + own natural regen. Huge Dot's and 600 HP heal.. Not to mention his DD and all the other nice "little" things. (Please tell me how you beat a 50+ Shaman, I'm interested, if in fact you were 50+ in your duel with one)

[EZ_Aerimus Shadowborn]

Slow = resisted with high mr
resist debuff = resisted with high mr
dots = resisted with good poison disease saves
pet can tank some but its dmg is less than impressive


That really leaves dds and heals though a smart shaman can have a dmg shield via his potions.

[EZ_ChamelionIronfists]

Hmm, a Shaman's debuffer is disease based. Many people do not have 100+ disease resistance. (Im fairly certain)

Once that sticks, I think it lowers all resistances except disease by 50 point (now 75).

Now with there resists lowered, It should not be too hard for the shaman to kill the person off.

There are some, but not many people with resist gear for magic, disease, poison, cold 100+ Also, many high level people do not get disease and poison resists too high and focus on cold, fire, and magic resists more.

I myself am a long since retired shaman, level 51, on Rallos, So I have experience with this and have killed many rogues, and other classes, throughout my career. (Rather easily actually, no offense)

[EZ_Gaaryn]

I would bet good money that it is magic based. Just makes no sense for their debuff to be disease based. Disease resist is one of the most commonly ignored resist stats. Having a debuff based on it would just be devastating to any other class. I can never recall being debuffed by a shaman if I had my resist gear on (heavily geared towards mr, fr, cr). I mean I don't even consider that spell a threat unless a chanter has tashed me first (I believe it's an mr check).

I will disagree with Aerimus also. At high levels, rogues ain't going to do jack most of the time to a high level shaman outside of dungeons (it seems to me most pvp takes places where the opponents can run around). About your only option is to have a golem wand in order to knock down their sow and poison resist long enough to apply some poison. Otherwise say hello to their unresistable disease debuff and pox of bertox (if they have it).

My pure melee motto: If you can't stop em, you can't beat em.

[EZ_ChamelionIronfists]

Im 99.9% sure it is diseased base. Many shamans don't use it just becasue they like to start out with another spell, or just don't have it memed. It also takes like 100 mana and has a 3 sec casting time. I say it is diseased base because it lowers every other resist except disease and I have had it stick on many people with 100+ MR resist.. Im not TOTALLY sure, but im pretty sure that it is diseased based.

[Kambic]

Assuming that the server is not item-loot, and that it's coin only, any class ought to be viable, because you can wear your best gear into heavy combat. As it is now, when in high-risk PvP situations, half of my slots are empty, because I simply cannot afford to lose the item there, whether or not it's gear for PvE or PvP.

So if it's coin-only, I think a rogue would not be a bad choice at all.



So, you think you've got the guts to play
on the new PvP Server eh? Then enlist in the Screams

[Lisboa]

I'd venture rogues are going to be very low on the totem pole. Let's think of the readily obtainable piercers:

Giant snake fang.
Bronze spear.

It is going to be a long time before 6 damage piercers make their way into the market except for the store bought "Spear." The ambassador is a tough level 25; split paw gnolls and pickclaws who drop fine steel spears are also level 25. Then you have to wait until people get into 30+ before bloodstained fangs and walrus teeth enter the market. The harpoon of the depths will be one of the best and earliest 8 damage piercers found in the mid-20s; the first SBD will require level 35s.

[Kambic]

Yeah, but this guy is joining the Screams, and we are already making plans for a "trickle" down loot system :)

[EZ_Maleus]

The maloxxx line (shaman and mage -MR -FR -CR -PR) checks against magic.

Malo and mala (lv 60) are unresistable. Malleus McGuinness - - Vallon Zek
*Retired* Maleus D'Valet - Oracle of The Companions - Tribunal Server
*Retired* Wayman McLooty - Rogue of The Companions - Tribunal Server

[EZ_Rhaiyn]

Shamans are very easy IMO , even level 60 ones with malo.
Malo has a 6 second casting time nuff said. atm in resist gear i have around 178 MR. when i would duel with 138 MR I would resist all MR spells. just keep your PR up also cuase bane of nife is VERY bad. root the shaman with poison . if you don't have poison just chase them down.

[EZ_Ugli Itchybottom]

Shaman are good defensively in PvP but really have NO offense.

The pet is a joke until 55. 49 Shaman pet will most likely lose to a 34 mage or necro pet. 55 pet is quite a bit weaker than a 58 shadowknight's pet. (although it finally beats 52 SK pet which is a 39 necro pet heh).

Malosi line is NOT disease based contrary to popular belief. It resist checks against magic. So do slows. And 90MR is pretty much total immunity. 75 PR/DR is complete immunity to Shaman DOTs. In fact I tried to DOT a warrior who had no resist gear just base 15 DR. Put insidious decay on him first to bring DR from 15 to -25. Plague still resisted 5 times in a row. So except for a level 60 Shaman with Malo, its trivial for any melee class to become completely Shaman spell proof.

Even vs. a level 60 (-60 to each resist from Malo with the new PvP debuff enhancement), 150MR, 135PR/DR, 135CR = immune to everything but Malo/Insidious (resist debuffs) and the Epic weapon DOT, even after debuffs. Not uncommon to see those kind of resists at 55+ even on blue servers.

P.S. Rogues are the only class without a spell or right click item that will overwrite Malo with a buff.

Edited by: Ugli Itchybottom at: 6/11/01 4:13:13 pm