View Full Version : Rogue, the worse class?
Bengel Tyger
05-15-04, 09:31 AM
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?FN=wow-general&T=39801&P=1&ReplyCount=134#post39801
Alot of people saying the rogue is the worse class in that thread, about the worse class.
Now im sure its just a bunch of the B.Net kids not knowing much about our class. So i wanted to ask what you fellow rogues feel about this thread?
Didn't read the whole thread, but rogues do need some loving, I spoke to Shane Dabiri, Producer at E3 and gave him my input.
I'll write up my article in a bit.
Bengel Tyger
05-15-04, 02:16 PM
Fricka will you marry me!?
Tottally joking!
I'm very glad you have our backs on this beta!
JojoTheMonkey
05-15-04, 02:30 PM
With all the negative rogue-centric comments flying around, I actually caught myself looking at the mage description (blasphemy!). At least in EQ, I knew what my role was as a rogue, to be the best sustained damage dealer. It appears that sustained damage in Wow doesn't mean very much, since the battles are so short.
Simply put, I want to know what my class does best, and excel in that role. That's why I'm thinking of playing a mage (best damage dealer), or a warrior (best tankage). I hope they balance the rogue out soon, or I just might be saying 'hello' to a mage... Someone help me...
Bengel Tyger
05-15-04, 02:49 PM
From what i hear about the mage they are now CCers as well as dmg dealers.
I too made a rogue in EQ for dmg, but then fell in love with the class. I would play a WoW rogue even if i had to use a blunt weapon. I just can't think of myself wiggeling my finger to do dmg.
JojoTheMonkey
05-15-04, 03:05 PM
The best part about playing a rogue in EQ was a combination of factors, but it all centered on doing heaps of damage, and watching lose lovely double/crit backstabs fly by. Just thinking about it gives me shivers... so much fun...
However, I learned that balancing the crazy damage with hate control was my most favorite aspect of EQ. Learning just how much damage you could put out before that next Evade was a thing of beauty. This leads to another problem I have with Wow: While mage's can sit out of melee range to do horrendous amounts of damage, a rogue must stand right next to the mob to do damage. In this case, the rogue needs a better method of threat reduction, since I hear that the Wow version of evade (Feint, I think, but I may be wrong) is not sufficient.
Therefore, balancing threat versus damage isn't as large part of Wow as it was in EQ, but that was the best part... Maybe I just need to play the game, but I still worry. At least the safehouse is always there to talk about such things, I love this place. =)
Bengel Tyger
05-15-04, 03:40 PM
I haven't heard of any aggro problems from the rogue in WoW at all. From my understanding the Warrior holds killer aggro. But we'll see as im not in beta either.
JojoTheMonkey
05-15-04, 04:20 PM
Well, you may be right when you say that the warrior holds aggro well, but one of my friends intends on playing a paladin as the tank for our group. I know paladin's are being reworked so they may certainly be able to hold aggro better in this next push, but I can't help but think that a mage would be more useful to the group than a rogue.
Mage = damage, cc, utility (ports, summon food/water, etc)
Rogue = less damage, less cc (sap), and little to no utility
Bengel Tyger
05-15-04, 04:38 PM
Rogue does bring loot to the table. Having a rogue ML is probably a good idea since he gets his own loot table to pickpocket from. mix that in with the rest and thats a nice pot foreveryone. Rogues can also scout, as far as i know. Summon food/water = pretty useless in a group situation from what i understand, you have to be sitting for it to work, if your gorup is sitting then ur not exping.
Rogues also bring Poisons not only to their own but to other players weapons. as well as Snares, and i've read that that helps keep the group going instead of chaseing after the mobs.
and Rogues get bandit masks, which hands down, beats the robe wearing mage! :-p
Blameworthy
05-16-04, 04:25 PM
I am a rogue loyalist, for many reasons, and have played them to the upper levels in a few different games. UO (a rogue more or less) EQ, NWN, FFXI. I have played a rogue to level 17 in WoW so far. I played a rogue in EQ to level 50 and quit shortly after the RoK expansion came out, so i dont know a whole lot about how they were altered after that but playing a WoW rogue is a ton of fun and I think blizzard is more true to the class than Verant was. For example you're not gonna pick somethings pocket while you're fighting it and it must be humanoid. That always annoyed me in EQ. If all your looking for out of the class is dmg dealt then maybe a mage is best for you. Personally, the reasons i like playing a rogue are not for dmg reasons, although I like being a valuable part of the group its for reasons more like being able to pick locks and having the chance to get behind the enemy for a good backstab. Agro isnt really an issue in WoW if you're quick. You have skills that reduce your hate and other classes have skills that will increase theirs. Also, in WoW, rogues require more involvement during combat than they do in some games i've played previously. There are tons of situational attacks and the combo point system is fun. On another note, before I began playing I saw a lot of people writing that WoW was basically a finished game and that blizzard was just holding off because, traditionally, they release a game when they feel they've perfected it. This game is not finished actually. Close, and very functional, a hell of a lot of fun too, but there is a lot of stuff to be done before it is released if you want to know what I think. I trust blizzard to give rogues the.. uh.. love.. they need.
Arafain
05-16-04, 04:44 PM
I made a mage as my alliance toy character, but i play my rogue on horde. Mages are much more powerful than rogues as it stands now, but that is what beta is for - ideally, rogues will have more and more useful abilities in retail than they do now.
JojoTheMonkey
05-16-04, 08:16 PM
I made a mage as my alliance toy character, but i play my rogue on horde. Mages are much more powerful than rogues as it stands now, but that is what beta is for - ideally, rogues will have more and more useful abilities in retail than they do now.
That's what I'm hoping for Arafain. I just want rogues to be as useful (read: powerful) as mages are in a group. Then agian, I mostly duo, but overall balance is still very important to me.
I just got into Beta and have been playing a rogue. I love em. Getting stealth, backstab, and pickpocket have been my highlights so far. I love sneaking around, having enemies stare you down, stealing some cash. Loving the game so far.
Malakie
05-16-04, 11:39 PM
Rogues do need some work. As it stands now, a Mage can do everything a Rogue can do, but better. They do more damage, have better stealth, have a lockpicking ability (spell) which does not need to be skilled up, and better crowd control. In all feasable cases, a Mage is more useful in a group than a Rogue.
From my understanding the Warrior holds killer aggro.
Depends. Most Warriors my level or higher could hold agro. However, a few times I've grouped with Warriors a 1-3 levels lower and I'd end up tanking on most of the fights. I find that Evade hardly ever works and in most group situations it's a better use of energy to just use your damageing abilities. I'll admit that my Deception skill is somewhat low (30ish points below max I think) but it should definately work more than it does now, especially for the energy amount that it consumes.
Having a rogue ML is probably a good idea since he gets his own loot table to pickpocket from.
That's nice in theory, but you can't pickpocket mobs that are in combat. That means either everyone waits for you to pickpocket a mob before pulling or you leave fights early. Getting some loose change and the occasional nice item aren't worth either, IMO.
Summon food/water = pretty useless in a group situation from what i understand, you have to be sitting for it to work, if your gorup is sitting then ur not exping.
Not true. It is great after a wipe or a tough fight as well as using during battle in a tight situation. It also saves group members cash since they don't have to use their purchased food.
That all said, the Rogue class is very fun to play. They just need some adjustments as far as group desireability, damage and not being completely overshadowed by Mages.
My rogue is now 23, and I'm having a blast. If I'm the "worst" class then...
I know there are some issues with skills (Evis does not appear to do the dmg it reports), and they nerfed sap too hard (should be able to sap just one mob, whether it's in combat or not), but other than that I'm not sure what the problem is. BS might need some love, as it doesn't do a ton of dmg.
Anyway, I'm loving my rogue. I just hate that he'll probably be locked next push. :(
Shaymus1
05-17-04, 05:13 PM
I played a rogue in DAOC because I was certain they were going to fix the class. Two years later I realized they were not going to fix it. It's easy to convince yourself "they" will fix your favorite class, because you Want to believe it.
WoW better start making noise about what exactly they are fixing in the rogue class before this game goes retail. In my opinion they started out fairly well and have since broken rogues just like previous big games have broken rogues.
I've seen too many people make the mistake of hoping for fixes to a class down the road, and not just with rogues. Be warned, if you're counting on fixes later, make sure you're good at handling huge disappointment.
I wouldn't be hugely dissapointed if they did nothing more to rogues personally. I would be dissapointed, just not enough to prevent me from playing one. There's no reason not to believe that they won't continue to tune this as well as all classes though.
Bengel Tyger
05-18-04, 10:03 PM
Most big game companies wouldn't even have an non-NDA beta. Most big game companies would have had WoW (in its current state) on the shelves like 3 months ago.
Blizzard is doing things a bit different the most gamming companies. I have faith that they will tune things better. If they don't then it will be a select few of us that play. Personally i was getting worried thinking that everyone would be a Rogue back in Phase 1 of Beta.
Its Beta..
Tigole is at the helm..
I trust Rogues will be ok..
Bengel Tyger
05-21-04, 08:29 PM
Was Tigole a rogue?
Lets just say Tigole is old school and helped build this joint. :) Yeah- a rogue from as far back as I can remember.
Bengel Tyger
05-21-04, 09:41 PM
Thats what i ment. Thats kickass! Figure that name stuck out so much in my mind! Then again i wouldn't know anything about early days of The Safehouse or the like but to each his own...i've seen the light! or should i say the Shadow!
i've seen the light! or should i say the Shadow!
Well, better late than never ;)
Finally got a chance to do some serious grinding in there. First impressions- FUN. I spent a lot of time on quests that give you real XP, loot, and a feel for the world. :thumb :thumb
Been having some trouble with communication because of the default UI setup... things scrolling by too fast while your doing things. This is especially tough in groups when your focused on combat. Fricka was yelling at me all night because I didn't see her tells- until minutes later. :pulid Other than that, I haven't seen anything truly unamusing.
Bengel Tyger
05-22-04, 08:59 AM
Can you have more then 1 chat window? Thats what i liked about EQ. Old UI and New UI. The hitsmode windows were great, but the NEW UI was so much better. Can things be filtered similar to EQ's way?
at least if you use Cosmos you can have multiple windows and filter each one just like EQ. I don't know if that's possible with the default UI.
Blameworthy
05-28-04, 12:40 PM
I believe there will be just as many, if not many more, options allowing players to alter the WoW UI compared with EQs. Cosmos is just the beginning and already pretty advanced.
Qutsmnie
05-30-04, 12:12 PM
the trick to catching chat isnt seperating out everything its having everything you need to look at down with your chat window.
Its not that you cant catch everything coming by its that your eyes arnt even scanning the chat window
Seperating it just makes you one of those delayed people:
oh didnt see them say that. there it is.
And also it can make the problem worse by giving you even more turf to scan.
The trick to making a good intense chat set up is to keep everything your looking at that is keeping you from seeing chat on the same horizontal with your chat window (imo). Thats just my advice; should try it when they free up the ui. Other people say stuff different but thats what works for me.
So if they add any customization to that ui i sincerely hope its to be able to reaarrange everything.