New PoP Poisons!

[EZ_Brigandier Hellbringer]

Get em while they still hot

Look under Rogue Advanced Poisons...

eq.crgaming.com/spells/pop.asp Brigandier Hellbringer

Half Elven Assassin Of The Rathe

Precision
Being able to balance a full glass of water on each hand isn't enough; being able to jump down a flight of stairs without spilling a drop is.

[EZ_Rune the Borrower]

I haven't decided wether I'm going to get PoP yet or not. If I do, I'll probably wait a bit on it.

So the big question is, will we have to buy PoP to use these poisons? Runehammer Trollsbane
Assassin of Cazik-Thule

The Oldest Rogue on Cazik-Thule

"I yam what I yam."
Popeye

[EZ_remmaremma]

Of course you will. And they'll break something else for non-pop people to 'inspire' them to buy it.

[EZ_Mugwump C]

so will those poisons will be used as buffs? there is a buff time in the descriptions.

[EZ_Chaid Duskwalker]

The Good:

VI finally worked out the game mechanics for procing poisons.
The initial list of effects look useful for raid-level encounters.

The Wait and See:

How much farming will be involved to make these poisons?
Can we stack multiple doses of the same poison?

[EZ_DIVISION FreeBirth]

Uh these were brought up oh like 2 months ago, old news. Dqua D`Eugor
60 Assassin
Povar

[vaslin]

/nod, but they were updated.

[EZ_Fluxus]

I am willing to bet right now that VI will either pull this poison from the release or it will get nerfed within the first month of PoP.

Let me get this straight... I apply this poison and for the next 10 minutes, every time my weapon procs the target mob loses 300 mana (if applicable). So, I get all buffed up and have a 255 Dex, I'm at the Haste cap and I'm using the fastest weapons I can find, no matter what the damage is on them. Then, every 3-5 seconds, I'm sucking 300 mana from the mob.

Maybe by saying "my weapon procs" I am incorrect. What I'm thinking is that the poison is actually proccing, but it uses the same general formula for determining procs as a weapon. For example, my Bloodpoint could proc, followed by the poison proc. They are independent, but use the same data to determine proc rate.

Have you guys ever seen what a Mage Epic Pet can do with a pair of Gnoll Hide Lariats? The damage doesn't matter so much as the effect (Stun). I can see the day when Rogues will be asked to join raids and the first question they are asked will be "What poisons do you have?" Maybe I'm over-exaggerating... but I think this is gonna be HUGE.

I really hope that these new poisons get released and stay in the game. There should be tons of new ways for Rogues to enjoy the game now with these new poisons.

Mental Implosion:
Buff Duration: 10 minutes
Proc Duration: Instant
Recast Time: Instant
Actual Effects: Target: Reduce Mana (300)
Description: This poison procs a mana burn for 300 on the target whenever it activates.

[vaslin]

> Then, every 3-5 seconds, I'm sucking 300 mana from the mob.

Why are you assuming that your weapon will proc once every 3 seconds? I'm lucky to see my Tendonslicer proc twice a fight.

[EZ_Fluxus]

OK, OK, so, I embellished a little. I'm sure since you're toting that fine piece of steel, you've probably got a 255 Dex and Max Haste in these fights. When I'm max Dex and max haste, I get procs at least every 20 seconds with my 10/21 OFF-hand weapon.

Maybe I'm just lucky that way.

When I put that weapon in the main hand, it goes off even more (for obvious reasons).

The poison may not proc every 3-5 seconds... but, if it goes off of the same formula as weapon procs, then I'd say 10 second procs wouldn't be unheard off using a 16 or more like a 17 delay weapon. All of a sudden,Tombcarver sounds pretty good again.

5/17 weapon = UGH!
5/17 weapon that procs either a 500+ point DoT, a 300 point mana burn or a 75 point DD or a Stun with aggro reduction, all at your discretion... well... that's gotta be worth looking in to. =) Of course, Locustlure could proc slow and then... well, you get the point.

Yeah, 3-5 seconds is a little wack. But, 10 seconds isn't that unreasonable imho. The point here is that multiple rogues using very low delay weapons will be a major factor to consider in some big fights.

[EZ_Jagsnor Dinapengar]

*Bite of the Shissar Single Target Direct Damage Poison (Max: 125)

Thats really the only useful one there. The DoT poisons take too long to do their damage, and all the others are situational.

These better have all their components be store bought, or noone will use them ever.

[EZ_Qutsemnie]

i swear if they arnt cheap and store bought ill scream. they are on the cusp of doing something cool and they are going to blow it. skill of the rogue class should be the factor. not how much cash you have. only other thing that cost as much as poisons thats cast is avatar... err well the closest thing. 11pp buys ya 9 min of avatar. currently with poisons... they screwed us. god i hope they dont do it again.

as for the procing argument above.
FACT:
all procs dont proc at the same rate.

saying you proc every 20 seconds with one weapon doesnt imply the next will proc that fast. also when you sit down and parse it or count it i think youll find you dont proc 3 times a minute with most things.

[EZ_Hotcana Wupaz]

adding one to each weapon would be pretty cool, ok I will wake up now.

[EZ_fujen01]

those r PoP new poisons .....

then how about our old poisons ??
will old poisons be taken out from the game ?????
some of our old poisons r useful to me also .
I hope they just "add" those for us and we still can use old one .

60 EPIC Marauder Fujen
60 EPIC Warlord Taiholisi
60 EPIC Hierophant Hanney
60 EPIC Grandmaster Wajokawaeine
57 EPIC Defiler Wasinecla@The Nameless server

[EZ_Cily]

As far as DoTs not "doing there damage" in time...

wasted flesh will raise your DPS by exactly 6 whenever it is active and considering the 90 seconds it sticks you can likely reproc it before it runs out.

Then add in the 15 minute duration on the buff itself... If it is a fairly reasonable poison to obtain, you could keep it up for a few hour XP grind with just 12 doses and increase your DPS by a few points.

Some people might not be interested in increasing thier DPS a few points, but im one of them people that makes sure to click my gobby earring whenever its gone.

For some rogues (very high end ones) that have reached thier innate ATTK cap, this will also be about the only method of increasing DPS at all.

Also there are more aggressive DoTs with 11DPS, which sounds good to me =) We will see about agro issues tho.

It will also all come down the resists of course. Right now my current damage poisons are resisted almost every time on anything worth using them on.

Cily

[EZ_Restyn]

wow. In one thread I saw someone complain that these will be way too powerful and another person say unless they can buy all the ingredients they will never use these.

Come on people!

First off, I doubt these will proc every few seconds, despite the "uber" dexterity of some people. Once or twice a fight should be fine. Plus, you are forgetting resists. Just because something procs doesn't mean it sticks. Mobs can resist these and probably will on some tougher ones.

Also, store bought. Come on. If the components are ALL store bought, we are mana-less mages. There has to be some farming involved, otherwise any twinked out rogue with a bank account will be poisoning. I for one use poisons a lot and don't mind the occasional farming for some components. I would like to see SOME store bought but not ALL store bought.

Beyond that, I just think it is great Verant is tweaking poisons. They are trying stuff, and that is a good sign right there. Master Apothecary (200)
Master Fletcher (192)
Master Potter (167)
Master Baker (152)
Master Smith (137)
Master Tailor (130)
Master Brewer (103)
and Friend to all Fish (1)the man behind the rogue

[EZ_Chaid Duskwalker]

>> Also, store bought. Come on. If the components are ALL store bought, we are mana-less mages.<<

Using your analogy of "mana-less mages":

Rogue "mana" = platinum in bank account.
Rogue "mana pool" = space available for poisons on character.
Rogue "mana regen" = rate of gathering platinum.

Until there's a way to not consume poisons (ala Endless Quiver for arrows), your analogy remains superficial.

Farming is boring. I did it for Make Poison from 1 to 182. After that, I just couldn't take it anymore. I don't play a game to be bored.

I for one hope all of the new poisons are vendor purchasable. If they're available as drops on mobs as well, then more power to VI.

[EZ_Restyn]

No. Plat is plat no matter the character. It is not rogue mana.

Fact is, if these components are all store bought, they will be expensive. And as such, who will be able to use them? Rogues in large guilds with large bank accounts. The casual player gets screwed ... again.

I for one vote for farming. It's not the most thrilling thing in the world, I realize, but it helps make it fair. You don't want to farm? Fine. You don't get the poisons.

[EZ_Bayler]

There's a lot more to the farming issue than it seems. Take a look at our current poisons:

+ Heartsting Scorpion Venom (Field of Bone): Immensely boring to farm. Way too rare. However, the newbies in Field of Bone routinely kill these mobs and sell the venom to the Cabilis merchants. If you have good Cabilis faction, or hire an iksar agent, these usually aren't too hard to obtain. That makes Stiffening Ergot a viable poison.

+ Scorpikis Venom (Overthere): Only once, EVER, have I seen one of these on a merchant. Nobody hunts them. They're social harm-touchers with no loot, in a pit that's hard to flee from. I tried farming them lately, and it's just not worth it. The venom drops way too rarely, and those harmtouches hurt. I'd spend 30 seconds killing one, and 2 minutes binding wounds after.

+ Mt. Death Mineral Salts (Droga / Nurga): I wasn't able to farm safely until level 55, despite the goblins being green around 48. The goblins buff each other, and used to be able to land full-strength debufs. And their damage sheilds suck. Still, if you consider Mind Melt to be a 55+ poison, I suppose it's reasonable. Just tedious. I'm not sure I would bother though if Mind Melt weren't sellable.

+ Putrid Bile, Asp Poison Sacs: These were actually good solo xp targets for me, when I was starting on poison. Good drop rate and lots of mobs to be found. Nice balance on these.
Bayler 57th rank Swashbuckler - Xev
Tessally 50th flicker Nun of Solusek Ro - Xev

[EZ_Faegin Darkfang]

Qutsemnie wrote: "i swear if they arnt cheap and store bought ill scream. they are on the cusp of doing something cool and they are going to blow it."

Well looking at the names of some of the venoms, I'd guess that higher level "farming" is gonna be needed. Bet Sting and Bite of the Shissar are gonna use drops from around or inside the Temple of Ssrablahblahblah... those snakes drop all kinds of wierd stuff. And Scoriae Sting? How much do folks like those bugs in BW?

I won't be too mad about having to do some farming for venoms... especially if you can actually earn some exps while doing it. Hated having to get Heartsting Venom sacs off of screamingly uber-green mobs just to make a high triv poison... now that was annoying! Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player that strutsand frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more...Faegin Darkfang - Master Rogue of the 54th CircleGrossmund Zhmalbehr - Dwarven Warrior of 30 CampaignsBloodywolf - Beast Lord of The Tribunal for 10 WintersPestilentia - Greenblood Ogress with 22 Crushed-SkullsTorwin - Priest of Bristlebane of the 15th RiteSnoggin - Ranger of the Thicket for 15 SummersTrouveres - Elven Troubador of the 10th Verse

[cedon]

I'm not to far into my poisoning career yet, but I'm thinking if farming is needed then fine, just make sure the components you need drop often enough that your farm time is minimized. You still have to put in the time to go out and do the hunting but actually get something for your kill, rather than killing 5 mobs and maybe getting one drop,( maybe its better with some drops than others but that's what it seems like so far for me),especially when its greens your killing.
with (I'm assuming) the higher level stuff( PoP etc...), have the components be common on experience mobs, if theres a rogue in the group then great, if not well I suppose a mob's got to drop something, it might as well be a poison component that can be traded or sold like anything else.
Just my uninformed opinion I still have a long way to go yet
but at least its nice to see some interesting possibilities.
luck

[EZ_Rune the Borrower]

LOL, you think one drop in 5 kills is bad? You are correct, you are on low end poisons.

Asmag Weed drops less than one in TWENTY.

Heartsting Venom Sacs is listed as a less than one in TEN drop on Quips guide but I doubt it's as high as one in twenty.

Snowfall Algae and Vampie Venom Sacs also are listed as being lower than 5%.

Not only are these rare drops but to some extent they are rare mobs also.

I have spent time hunting several of these mobs and I believe there are fewer than 10 Heartsting Scorp spawn points. You can kill the 10 or so in no time and then sit on your butt and wait to kill them all again, do that 5 or so times and get no drops. I know, been there, done that.

The Asmag weed drops off of Goblin Warriors in Lava Storm. I doubt there are 7 goblin spawns all told in LS and not all of them are warriors. If they dropped the weed every time it would be rare but for them to drop it less than 5% of the time is just plain stupid. Now realise that Asmag weed is used in a poison that trivilaizes at around 150. When you're high enough of a level to be needing it not only are the goblins green but so is everything else in the zone and damn near everything within about 3 zones of them.

This is what most of us higher skilled poisoners mean when we talk about hateing farming greens. When you go to do it, there is nothing else to do. Runehammer Trollsbane
Assassin of Cazik-Thule

The Oldest Rogue on Cazik-Thule

"I yam what I yam."
Popeye

[EZ_Restyn]

All the more reason for the change.

If you get the components you need from one out of 10 mobs. Mix up a poison and then get its benefits for 10 minutes, that sounds like a pretty good deal.

Or, at least a better deal than one shot as it is now.

[cedon]

/em contemplates Rune's post then takes a dose of his oun poison.

[Lemac Dushae]

Asmag Weed can also be found in SolB much more commonly. Sorry for the highjack.. just trying to help in some regard.

Back on topic, I'm sure a balance could be struck. the lower level/effect poisions could and should be vendor bought. This will insure that some of the more "common" poisions stay in fairly constant use. It would make poisioning a standard part of the Rogue class. Bixie Sting? Sounds like I'm making a trip to Kelethin. That sort of idea.

For the more potent ones, make them common drops or at the worst uncommon. Yes, there is some farming to be done, but at least it will be somewhat productive.

This would also be a good excuse to draw players into less populated zones. No, I'm not saying make poision compents the only reason to return, but it's a good step to retuning zones that aren't popular. The Deep comes to mind in this regard. Great xp, great Pal/SK shield yet a ghost town.

I don't think mobs should drop completed poision vials unless they are Rogue class mobs. I'm fine with organs, stingers, fangs and all that. I'll do the combines myself. Various backstabbing mobs should drop completed poisions IMO. -- Lemac Dushae, Guild Leader for the Court of Jesters
56th Season Blackguard
Fennin Ro

[EZ_Aerimus Shadowborn]

There are better possible forms of time sinks than farming greens but that would require brains and work from VI so I suspect its too much to expect.

Think of it this way as someone said this is a game. The purpose is to have fun. Anything that decreases the overall fun without adding something signifigant is poor design.

Farming greens with low drop rates is positively stupifying.

Suggested alternatives...

1. Distilations. Put components as common drops in common high level experience zones off mobs in camps that see a lot of action.

5 components + 1 empty jar = jar of poison components
5 jars are used to make 1 distillation. Each distilation is a small bottle with 50 charges of summon: dose of component.

This means that spending say 5 hours killing mobs in CT might yield enough poisons to coat your blade for 50 elsewhere. This emphasizes challenge rather than time wasted.

2. Poison recipes. Make rogues quest for no drop recipes to scribe. Make the new poisons require these recipes. Make these quests challenging but not boring with a bit of roguish feel. That sort of time sink would be interesting and a LOT easier to swallow.

[EZ_Qutsemnie]

"I don't think mobs should drop completed poision vials unless they are Rogue class mobs. "

Mobs drop BPS made from their skin. Weapons from their claws. All already combined no skill required.

if poisons were brought into line with that they should drop completed from their guts.

instead we have to waste the time that is appropriate for a shield made from a dragon scale instead of a poison made from an organ.

go figure...

[EZ_Brigandier Hellbringer]

Quote: those r PoP new poisons .....

then how about our old poisons ??
will old poisons be taken out from the game ?????
some of our old poisons r useful to me also .
I hope they just "add" those for us and we still can use old one .



60 EPIC Marauder Fujen

60 EPIC Warlord Taiholisi

60 EPIC Hierophant Hanney

60 EPIC Grandmaster Wajokawaeine

57 EPIC Defiler Wasinecla
@The Nameless server


Anyone see anything wrong with this picture? Brigandier Hellbringer

Half Elven Assassin Of The Rathe

Precision
Being able to balance a full glass of water on each hand isn't enough; being able to jump down a flight of stairs without spilling a drop is.

[EZ_Qutsemnie]

ya i snickered bout it yesterday though i suspect posting bout it comes under the catagory adhominen flame.

[EZ_Zeul]

I was wondering if anyone knows if poifons will be made stackable in PoP? This may have already been asked and answered, I apologize in advance for being uninformed. heh. I would think this in itself would be of great benefit, and havent heard much on the subject.


Gaflin Nightblade
57 backstabbinpickpocket-Xegony
Carpe Nocterm

[EZ_Pstormbringer]

Nobody knows until PoP comes out Pensy Stormbringer
High Elven Conjurer
Master of the elements since 2001Tilenye Dragoncrunchie
Blackguard in the service of Bristlebane
Manifesto of the Elements!
Just say NO to beggers

[Sylvarin Foxblade]

I haven't seen anyone mention this yet. A guildmate posted this information. Magelo is showing 10 Dose poisons, which would somewhat solve the stacking problem. Still a lot to carry if you want a full poison arsenal with enough doses of each. Note the slot: AMMO. That's pretty key.

----------------------------------------------------------
10 Dose Bite of the Shissar
10 Dose Mental Implosion
10 Dose Scratching Madness
10 Dose Oozing Irritation
10 Dose Wasted Flesh
10 Dose Spine Rend
10 Dose Scoriae Bite
10 Dose Mangled Tendon
10 Dose Dreams of Drusella

www.magelo.com/eq_item_in...?num=11453

They are 10 charged obviously. 4.0 second casting (apply)
----------------------------------------------------------
Sylvarin Foxblade, The Silver Shadow
60th Assassin of Brell
Silent Redemption
"From light comes shadows. Through shadows comes justice."Edited by: Sylvarin Foxblade at: 10/14/02 11:21:02 am

[Lemac Dushae]

Ammo slot too... interesting...

[Sylvarin Foxblade]

Edited: I was corrected. Sylvarin Foxblade, The Silver Shadow
60th Assassin of Brell
Silent Redemption
"From light comes shadows. Through shadows comes justice."Edited by: Sylvarin Foxblade at: 10/14/02 11:54:21 am

[EZ_Ciypher]

A month after pop no one will care about poisons.

[EZ_Glion The Rogue]

i just hope they are stackable.. .else its gonna suck

Glion Shadowbane60th rogueRaging FuryAntonius Bayle

[Pyrocat Moonstalker]

10 dose? If the components are farmable I'm hoping you only have to have one combine to equal 10 dose. Otherwise storebought = 1 poison is fine for me It's murder on the dance floor.. You better not steal the moves
Blackitty Pantheramoon Blackguard of the 55th Dagger
Traverse Moonstalker Wanderer of the 51st Season
Proud member of The Safehouse
Ooo shiny! Sig Gallery
- King of useless replies

[EZ_Dolch Dersunde]

Perhaps the solution to the problem in this debate is to have the poison components drop from mobs that you might actually find yourself killing. ie. Not green mobs?

Bite of the Shissar? Components drop off Ssra zone trash? Sounds way better to me than farming greens. Marauder Dolch Dersünde
Assassin of Zebuxoruk