Disapointed

[EZ_Aerimus Shadowborn]

I'm rather disapointed that you need to be 59+ and drop a huge amount of plat into getting started (beyond raising the skill) only to be rewarded with a skill that requires a horde of items, 12 seperate steps and 300pp per 10 charge poison.

Including collecting caster research items(wtf)
finding a caster to help us make our poison (wtf)
farming skins (/yawn)
farming poison components (lame)

So for each 10 charge poison I run to a newbie zone and slay trash mobs for a half hour for skins, pester an enchanter, spend hours farming runes or buying them off newbies, do nearly 100 seperate combines, spend hours farming the main ingredient, drop 300pp and for this I get to increase my dps by 10ish or proc something useful like snare for 1 hour 40 minutes, an effect I can btw duplicate by equiping something as unuber as an sbd or as uber as tendonslicer...

Aaaaaaaaaaaand nobody thinks there's anything wrong with this?

God damn what @#%$ moron designed this system?

Cut the crap the progression for the creation of an advanced poison should be like so...


advanced vial sketch + large block of clay
flask of water + skin (purchased from a tanner killing level 5 bears doesn't add to the experience thanks) = advanced vial

firing sheet + vial = finished vial

celestial susp(purchsed)

common poison component (purchased)

dose of rare poison component (farmed)

vial + susp + component 1 + component 2 = poison

8 components 3 steps and your done what a concept...

A note on farming it sucks, a single several hour hunting trip in a zone should yield enough components for a large suppy of poisons. That way work is required but it isn't expected that someone has to live in say OS in order to have a chance at using x poison with any sort of regularity. Anyway how do you make that much stuff fit in a reasonable space? Easy.

Ex. 5 shissar venom sacks + small bottle (stackable before combine) combined in the corpse bottle = bottle of shissar venom

8 bottles of shissar venom + large bottle (stackable before combine) = distilation:shissar venom

inspecting this item would reveal that it has 100 charges of summon dose of shissar venom. These doses would be the actual poison component.

So the poison system would work like...

Spend time raising the skill periodicly just like any trade skill.

Hunt for an evening somewhere a desired poison component drops. Have fun get some experience collect what you need.

Spend time in a friendly city chat with some friends and combine some vials from readily available merchant bought components. Put together a nice stock of vials and suspension fluid + buyable poison reagents.

Log on rummage through your bank spend a few minutes making a few 10 charge poisons that you need and go have fun.

The idea is to both limit the time sinks and push them into chunks of work that don't annoy the players so they can get the work done and over with so you can go out and play the damn game rather than playing super farmer or sim drudge.

[Squink McPoke]

Super Farmer Bros. 2 was my favorite of them all.

[EZ_meyekal]

Im hoping there is still alot of undiscovered stuff with poisons. The biggest surprise for me so far is the chargeable poisons. I believe it was every rogues wish to make poisons stackable, but as of now its only for the 59+ crowd.

In my mind they haven't revamped poisons, they just added a particle effect.

[ShadowCross]

Aerimus, wth are you talking about with farming caster research items?

All you need is scent of marr, which is BUYABLE at our poison vendor. Veteran ShadowCross Bladesong
- Everquest: Veteran Shadowcross Bladesong, Teir'dal Assassin (61), Antonious Bayle

- Assistant Messageboard Administrator: The Safehouse - An RPG Rogue Community
- Webmaster of succubus.de; Shadow Court Sidhe Lord & Owner of The Fae House
- LARP: Lord Crian ShadowCross Lugh-Goldstien, Baron of Tirion, Shire of Pendaran, Terra Nigra

[EZ_L0z]

Gotta say, this could have been a very good implimentation of poison, but VI completely blew it. Not only are the poison componants unreasonably painful to require (read: farming blues that require a group to acquire, in zones with poor xp for 61+), but the cost of each poison is prohibitive (going the fast route, 20ish pp per poison [10.5 for the peri, 6.5 for the vial, 2 or so for the amber, etc]), for which you may get an extra 400-500 more damage over 10 minutes with a DD procing poison, or if you're lucky, another 1k over 10 minutes with a dot.

In order to gain this miraculous .3 to .6 dps, you must go to the insane effort of finding a tinkerer or enchanter, spending an assinine amount of time gathering components, and for the most part, being level 59.

If the effects had been useful, or if the components were cheaper, and all vendor bought, or any number of other things, this would have been one of the best things to happen to rogues. The one thing we lack (in spades) is versatility. Instead of providing us any versatility via the best chance, Verant decided to simply give us a pathetic dps increase, and call it a goddamned day.

I don't know how anyone can stand up for this, and say, 'Yeah, verant did a good job with this!'. They didn't. Pure and simple, they screwed us, and called it a feature. To add in these poisons, and have anyone think that the class is more balanced because of it would be like Verant making us pay AAxp for hiding while moving, or not raising our skill caps for new levels... oh... wait...

Another caster expansion. Already getting sick of it. At least it looks pretty.

[EZ_Charye Lupine]

I'm always amazed by people that bitch about farming these components. You dont have friends that hunt there? How about a guild? Usually a twink or 2 in a few different places at least. I have more poison components coming in from my guild than I can handle, had to make 2 mules to hold all of it. Same goes for the enchanted clay, I cant believe anyone is in an enchanter-less guild.

Maybe, just maybe I know a lot more people than you. Or maybe you folks need to get out and make some friends. It's not hard, "Howdy, how are ya" seems to work really well for me. Try it

[EZ_feck opression]

The time/price is way out of wack. We've got weapons that have procs better then any of these poisons ( ie Dragonspine Rapier , Feverblade , Tunare dagger etc ... ) If they are going to make this a huge time/money sink at least make these powerful.


2 things could actually make this work ....

1. Make them easier to make (ie poison component+vial = poison. ) Make it simple. I dont know about most of you guys but I dont have room for 5 bags of all these supplies.

2. Each combine makes a 10 shot poition and the sack can combine 10 shots into 1 100 shot.


Someone sat down and coded all this for what? To not be used AGAIN? This is the 3rd time around for poisons and still the same ol' same ol' ... A for effort, F for execution.


/rambling off








f e c k . t r i b u n a l . a s s a s s i n

[EZ_Restyn]

As someone who has been using the old poison system forever, I have to say these look great! Granted, I have not sat down and used them yet (only level 46) but it seems like a nice progression.

Only 2 beefs I have:

1. Magic clay for vials. I understand why this is in. After all, the poison that is made casts a self buff. But, I don't like the idea of rogues having to look for 'chanters to make poison. Would have liked it better to have a celestial essence or something in there. Anyway ...

2. The level. In my opinion, and from what I've heard, the hardest levels for rogues are the 40s. No skill increases. No new skills. Nothing but the occasional damage bonus. These poisons should have been allowed for those in the 40s, to help that progression out. Just my opinion.

Beyond that though, I for one am happy to hear/see that there have been changes. There will always be those who bitch, and always be those who think it could have been done a different way (heh heh, like me ) but in the end, I'm just happy to see some new stuff.

edit: removed sig, since the html seems to be broke again Edited by: Restyn at: 10/26/02 6:14:44 pm

[EZ_JJ the rogue]

Just wanted to say the effects are decent but I agree the time/cost ratio is off. I have Tinker and Enchanter friends wich makes it not as bad, but i believe since this is a Rogue skill a Rogue should be able to make or buy is solo. The biggest fix i think should be made is the durration on the poisons. Instead of 10 min, make the small poisons more like 60min and the big poisons 90min, keep all the charges the same. This should be a realitivly easy coding change and make the time to creat and the cost/DPS increase to a reasonable level that i believe would intise most rogues to use this skill. <img src=http://lara.wortech.ac.uk/mpeggs/images/wav_anim/sciktga.gif>
<br><b><a href=http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=116385><font color="white">Johnjacob Jinglehymersmit</font></a></b>
<br><font color="black">Level 60 Assassin, Veeshan</font>
<br><b><font color="red">Veeshan Hafling Brigade</b></font>
<br>

[Underdawg Darogue]

If you dont want to you dont have to be the one to farm and make these poisons. As a rogue feel free to limit your use of the new poison system to buying poisons from other rogues to use. You dont have to be 59 to USE the poisons and they are droppable.

[EZ_Aerimus Shadowborn]

However since the cost of a single 10 min poison seems to be around 30pp I'm sure a craftsman who is after all out for profit would charge at least 500pp per 10 charge.

You would need 2 of these for a reasonable length hunt.

Dropping 1k nightly to increase my dps slightly doesn't seem to be that great of an idea.

Also if lower level rogues are intended to be able to use the new poisons they should be able to make them themselves.

This whole poison system is whacked.

If you want to add another time sink that actually makes sense how about this...

Make the creation of a given poison fail without a certain char flags.

These flags will be obtained by questing. The addition of virtual spaces means that these quests could be designed to be done only with difficulty solo by the rogue without worrying about rogue + 5 friends gimping the encounter. There should be a heavy emphasis on stealth and careful and selective use of force.

The npc that gives the quest should give you the recipe by direct tell and flag you upon completion.

[EZ_Bigmeeno]

Isnt it obvious by now that Verant/Sony are scared @#%$ than we might do some extra damage. You simply cannot go through revision after revision after revision of this trade skill, repeatedly making the same screwed up decisions during implimentation, without being paranoid that you might actually allow the person that wasted all their time getting skillups in your contrived timesink to do a slightly higher amount of damage than someone that ignored the tradeskill completely.

Being able to do an extra 0.3 to 0.6 DPS with these new poisons is fooking laughable. Even 10 TIMES that amount would be a laiughable increase in DPS. Perhaps at 50 to 100 times that, this might become worth bothering with. Perhaps.

Someone once said this was a game. Where is the fun in finding out you have to work your ass off to gain virtually nothing?

[Squink McPoke]

I dunno, I speak only for me, but I'm having fun in the discovery phase =)

Except for the bit about requiring eyerazzia, a 3-expansion old weapon that at the time of me destroying it for bank space (tradeskills require retarded amounts of bank space, a VERY precious commodity) had no relation whatsoever to poisonmaking. It didn't even have resist poison on it.

I am disappointed in the fact that I am fairly stuck on the discovery stage because I didn't *for no reason whatsoever at the time* hang onto something from the original EQ.

I'm resisting judgement on the entire new poison system until we've discovered most of what we can about the recipes and possible new mortar/pestle. But, as stated above, because of some nonsensical requirement, I'm stuck on what looks to be a potentially large stage of the discovery. And that angers me. Reminds me of Space Quest where if you kiss the alien at the beginning (with no, zip, zero hint of consequences for the action at the time) you just up and die at the end. -- Squink McPoke, 61 Assassin, Lanys T'vyl. Hat.
-- <The Halfling Inquisition>

[EZ_noctur]

come on 2 eyeazzarias or more drop per pof clear. I just sent a tell to a guild that was clearing and asked if I could run in and loot one if they got a spare one to drop, because I too had dested mine for bank space. About 3 hours later I got the tell one was rotting, I was there inside 3 mins thanks to the PoK portal system and looted the rapier. Noctur Docter<BR>
Level 60 Assassin<BR>
Ashen Vendetta<BR>
Innoruuk<BR>
"Nothing makes me smile more than a turned back ..."<BR>

[Squink McPoke]

Yes, I realize this. The principle of the matter remains. My opinion is that it is quite silly.

Next expansion will probably require our dagger* and jumjum sack tunic. Edited by: Squink McPoke at: 10/27/02 6:49:33 pm

They should have made it Burning Rapier... That was a fun quest .

[EZ_Benton D Marr]

Haha Fhade funny you should mention the burning rapier. I went and asked Pazin(one of the inky GMs) "what about the dark assassin" . You'll never guess what he wants.

U had seal with ye? It'd be cool if burning Rapier gets used in something. Going to check this up tonight... Edited by: Fhade at: 10/28/02 3:08:06 am

[Dikus]

Yeah i am very too disappointed about this poison system...

We must have a 250 Skill only be able to achieve the quest item to get any more infos about the PoP poisons ?

Thats BS Verant pardon me. I am lvl 60 and have so far spent 4k to raise to 170 or so. No I dont have the time raising potter to 250 too when Guild is always calling me to help in Raiding when I log in.

Nevertheless I will raise my skill to 250 make this BS miniEpic Quest just to be sure that this time- and ppsink Defining Tradeskill is worth against nothing as before...

If the new poisons would be unresistable against all mobs it would be my last hope that they are good for anything...


Dikus Dunkelbier

[EZ_Faegin]

I personally love the new poison system. The way the poisons act is exactly the way that Rogues have been asking VI for since Year 1 of Everquest.

My only reservation with the new system is the implementation. Like others mentioned, it seems very unfair that the only way to "discover" the poison "in-character" is to be a 60th level Rogue with a GMAV in hand. I am not 60, and do not have a GMAV, but am maxed out for Poisonmaking for my level and can make the Tier 1 poisons with reasonable success (fail 1 in 10 at 235).

I wish that VI would have opened the "discovery" phase of the new poisons to more Rogues, but overall I am pleased with their effects.

As to some of the other compaints I have seen, concerning DPS and cost, I am not sure what that is based upon, and it certainly hasn't been my experience.

The cost of Sting of the Shissar (my personal favorite) runs me about 17pp per dose total with my charisma gear on. This is by making my own advanced vials, and purchasing Tainted Essence from a vendor. If I had my GMAS and could stack my poison, that would only cost 170pp per 10 stack, which is quite modest in my opinion.

As far as Damage per Second incrase, Sting of the Shissar increases my DPS by a very noticeable degree, per dose. With it, I proc 2-4 times per combat, with only my own modest 182 DEX, and if grouped with my favorite shaman guildie and DEX-buffed, can proc as many as 5 and 6 times on a single MOB. Few critters I have been fighting resist Sting, and even giants in Kael, which cannot be KB-ed, still took the 75hp damage. Assuming only 1 proc every minute, your DPS is raised 1.25 using Sting of the Shissar. In a fast combat area with steady pulls (like the Arena or HS), I am easily proccing 8-10 times a minute conservatively, increasing my DPS to something more like 12.5. Adding as much as 7500hp of damage over a ten minute period seems well worth the 17pp cost.

And reagents are certainly plentiful. In a three hour exp group in the South Wing of Charasis, I was tossed 89 Dusts of Decay by my groupies. I kept 1 stack, and sold the others to buy Tainted Essences, Crystallized Sulfurs, and Phosphorus Powders from Vendors in PoK. With no additional outlay of cash, I had 20 Dusts, 20 Phosphorus, 10 Tainted Essences, and 3 Crystal Sulfurs. More than enough ingredients to make up for the poison I used on the trip.

So overall, I give VI "7" out of "10" for the new system. They really screwed up how the information got out to the Rogue population, but thankfully, we have the Safehouse to make up for some VI designer's silliness.

[EZ_RanjaInno]

Faegin,

I would so much like to share your enthusiasm. The system and the price might not be SO bad, but the whole process is just too lengthy and requires help from others.

How do YOU get the vials done easily. Shouting "Donating for Tinkerer or Clay Enchanter" doesnt get me many excited replies on my server.

Ranja
61 FatAssAssin
of Elder Force

[Squink McPoke]

The tinkering option I can understand, after all you want it easier, it'll cost you extra (in terms of money and that extra effort to find a tinkerer), although I don't like it.

The fact that we need enchanted clay is just lame however. I'm really sick and tired of both pottery and now poisonmaking requiring enchanters. There is NO other source of enchanted clay. I'm sure the enchanters aren't all that excited about being the grunts for so many tradeskills. Enchanted this, mana vial that. Lame.

[EZ_Evenight Darkfang]

Ranjalnno asked: "How do YOU get the vials done easily."

Well on Xegony, there are quite a few chanters in the Bazaar selling Enchanted Clay for anything from 5 gold to 1 pp. That is still pricey by my book, but I'm sure you might find an enterprising chanter on your server selling magic clay.

Personally, a buddy of mine has a 25th level Enchanter toon. So I "borrowed" him one afternoon, bought him a KEI in the Nexus (seems someone is always selling KEI there) and blasted out a backpack worth of enchanted clay. More than enough clay to keep me in vials for a long time.

Skins are easy enough to obtain too, now that PoP has come out. From PoK you can port to any newbie zone with wolves (RV and FP/EC for example). Black wolf skins are only 1g2s6c per, and are always sold to vendors, as they have almost no other use in the game except to make vials. Puma skins are good too and sell for the same amount. A run through EC, Mist Thicket and RV, and I was ready to knock out stacks of vials.

I agree that the vial making has been made annoyingly complex, but the damage potential of these poisons offsets the work considerably more than the older "1-shot at the start of a combat, hope it lands" poison. And we were all making vials back then (before vendors actually sold them) for some pretty weak poisons. <center><img src="http://www.face-pic.com/pics/e/v/evenight.1.jpg" BORDER="0"> </center>

[DarthEnder]

Its the fact that you need to make new vials and make new suspensions that really ruins this. Turns each poisons into too many combines.

[EZ_Arcturos]

Great idea that was poorly implemented. Minimum level required too high for some of the new poisons. Price is not cost effective. Get a proc weapon and save the cash in the long run.

[ShadowCross]

Get a proc weapon and save the cash in the long run.

Several of the poison effects are rather "unique" and aren't found on a weapon. Besides, poison procs and weapon procs "stack".. you can proc either.

[EZ_Aaradun]

Here's from my experience so far with poison.

They are not that hard to make, the only frustrating part is making the purifying water as well you require brewery to do it. I have failed 60 out of 80 combinres due to well no skill. Eventually this will become trivial and not like it cost lots of money to raise.

Making the enchanted clay also is trivial, either get a chanter friend to make them for you or just level one to lvl 8 (not like it takes a lot of time. Buy belts in WC and just have him turn them in).

The components are like at the moment easy to buy. I was able to buy like 4 stacks of tainted essence, 2 stacks of dust of decay, and 6 of the clump thing in like 2 minute of hunting.

The pissy part, is well getting the pelts to make the vials but then again with pop you just port to your friendly newbie ground and buy everything you can in like 5 minutes.

So basically with 10-15 minutes invested of my time i had enough to make 60 dose.

Now as for using poisons, well i find that it's use is almost limited to xp groups. All the poison i tried on boss mobs type encounter seems to be resisted (even the aggro reducer). So that makes it's use almost useless.

But in XP group damm it doesn't stop procing. On average on one a level 62ish mob i get from 6-12 procs and sometime more (With 265 dex), to the point i got to use an aggro reducer poison in middle of fight because i get too much aggro.

So far all i can say, for xp group this poison is nice and well you can easily offset the cost with what drops (assuming you actually loot what drops). But for raid type encounter it's almost useless.

[EZ_Lifty]

loz,

Quote:I don't know how anyone can stand up for this, and say, 'Yeah, verant did a good job with this!'.

as for understanding it...there are always folks that choose the opposite opinion (they just LOVE the poison system) just to choose an opposite opinion. then ya got the fact that a large percentage of the human population are clueless @#%$. then ya got the folks that actually enjoy getting @#%$ in the ass. etc.

[EZ_Arcturos]

My complaint is not with the effectiveness. It's with the cost. Just like the pre-PoP poisons the cost is not justified by my share of the loot. If I use poison in a fight I lose money. The benefit of bringing down the mob faster just does not justify the cost.

My other complaint is that the lower level poisons have gone unchanged. They are still underpowered, still one shot, and still cost more to make and use than the loot you typically get off the monster.

All the other tradeskills/class specific skills have a market among the other player's for their goods. It is possible for every other tradeskiller to recoup their costs by selling to other players. Poison Maker's realistically can't do that. I never bought poison from another rogue and have only sold 8 doses of snake venom to a young rogue once who wanted to try it. I don't see shouts on the auction channel "/s WTB poisons".

Nope, I am not satisfied with the PoP poisons. They don't go far enough.

[EZ_RanjaInno]

The purified water is trivial at 58 brewing ("you can not increase your skill further from making this item"), however I still fail about 30% of the time ("You lack the skills..." lol).
While every tradeskill has a certain % of failure even if you're far above the trivial level, a failure of 30% is extremly uncommon to say the least. Either this is a bug or a feature to increase hassle/price.
While this doesn't burn too much money (~1,6 pp per fail) it just sucks having to carry 6 slots (30 essence, 60 water) to produce 1 final stack of 20 purified. Could at least yield 2 each, with the 2 water water involved...

Oh and while I'm ranting, it sucks that the purified water has exactly the same graphic as regular water ('where did i put that again...') and is also considered a drink in the first inventory slot ('aah that was refreshing 1,6pp') ;-)

Ranja
61 FatAssAssin
of Elder Force, Innoruuk

http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=151996

[EZ_Lifty]

keep the different tiers in mind. the amber stuff, no one has a prob with. the mercury stuff (tier 2) is where even maxed folks are seeing the higher percentage in failures.

poison mastery seems to fix it up well enough, but hell, that's a lotta aaxp points.

[EZ_L0z]

Last night I made 4 10 charge Tier 2 poisons, 2 failures total. The failure rate is fine. (the cost is quite another thing) Edited by: L0z at: 10/30/02 11:48:03 am

[EZ_Weben]

i will *not* be wasting my time w/ poisons. i *will* buy a few from players for those once and a while encounters when i'm by myself and need to have that lil extra boost of damage, or stats debuff, but screw that other stuff. i'm not jumping through those hoops, i'll use that time to level up, and bag more AA.

have fun

Marauder Weben
Rodcet Nife

[EZ_Faegin]

Ranjalnno posted: "The purified water is trivial at 58 brewing ("you can not increase your skill further from making this item"), however I still fail about 30% of the time ("You lack the skills..." lol)."

Do yourself a favor, bud, and don't buy those Gnomish Spirits we need for Amber Resin, but visit your local newbie zone (made ludicrously easy with PoK ports) and get yourself stacks of rat ears and spider legs. Gnomer booze trivs out at 102, and will lower your failure with P-Water alot at that skill level. Plus you got all those Spirits to make Resin from...

[EZ_L0z]

Quote:Do yourself a favor, bud, and don't buy those Gnomish Spirits we need for Amber Resin, but visit your local newbie zone (made ludicrously easy with PoK ports) and get yourself stacks of rat ears and spider legs.

Oh god yes. I'm sure that farming rats and bats for ears and legs is what EVERY rogue wants to do at 59+. You know, the levels where you can actually make this stuff? Edited by: L0z at: 10/31/02 6:42:14 am

[Cyynn]

You guys crack me up.

Poison making did not cost me much to get up grant you I started when it was first implemented and made sure friends and guildmates saved ingredients.

Poison goes up much faster than any of the other trade type skills. I went from 214-250 in a a couple of hours and I did it all in FV. Not only that but I managed to recoup most the cash back by selling the poisons back to the merchant.

These quests give a fair ammount of experience. Between my seal quest and my sketch quest I have managed to pull in at least a full yellow of AA.

I would guess that if we get an upgrade for our epic or a new epic that these quests will be needed to even attempt it.

This is the first time I have not been completley bored with a quest and that there is a bigger picture at the end of this tunnel. Veteran Cyynn <Clan Steelbear>

61 Assassin

'Last one in. First one out!'

[EZ_NedraNightblade]

First, I am not disappointed with the new poison system. Is it expensive...yes, are the poisons useless....no. Basically I have played this game 3 years, should I choose to complain every time VI screws something up I would have quit long ago.

I used the old world poisons alot before this upgrade. Why? A Rogue should poison, just the way I look at my character. Am I going to use this version of poison? Yes because they are far more useful then the previous version, heh I proc every one I tried like a fiend the times I use them.

As it stands I have done all the quest because I wanted too, and I have enjoyed them because I did not feel required to do them. Are they a time sink, probably, but in every sense we play this game to kill time otherwise what are you doing?

Regardless of what you do, use poisons or not, enjoy what your doing or don't do it simple as that. Nedra NightBlade
Another member of the Rogue Horde of Silent Redemption

I have my own little world. But it's OK...they know me here.
Anonymous

[EZ_twinbabas]

I find the new poison system to be quite rewarding and fun.

I spent my time in tradeskills. Making these poisons is EASY for me. Something hard for one player is easy for another, that's why you make friends. And that's why we have a bazaar.

Poison too expensive? Don't want to farm green mobs? Then buy them from a tradeskiller or trade with them the stuff they want that probably drops for you all the time. (I dont know how many 2Kpp blue diamonds i bought.)

I see it this way. The time it takes me to make 1 10-charge vial of poison is about the same time it takes a high-end player to farm a blue diamond from a high-end zone. (plus they get exp).

I think verant has given a nice balance for the 2 types of players out there. Those that do tradeskill and those that don't. Twinbabas Meherdadas
60th Season Assassin
BristleBane Server

[EZ_Cheap Beer]

It's true... from 200 to 225 skilling with spirit of sloth and selling them back to a vendor you're gonna break even. From 225 to 250 you'll make back whatever money you lost in the first place. It's one of the few skills that isn't a huge money sink and hardly anything to complain about.

As for the complexity of obtaining the dropped reagents... you have the bazaar, PoK, and PoT vendors that are spilling over with components that have been sold to them by players. If you're really gonna be lazy about it, it's not that difficult to just buy em off the vendors.

The real complaint I have comes from the duration of the poisons... 10 minutes is a joke. Even doubling that to 20 minutes is barely worth the cost and effort of making them. The effort part is another complaint... the only rogues that can make these entirely on their own are gnomes. Finding a tinkerer every time I want to make some vials is rediculous... and there's no way I'm about to do it the "hard" way and find an enchanter.

Stalkar

[EZ_Forthe CT]

"I think verant has given a nice balance for the 2 types of players out there. Those that do tradeskill and those that don't."

I'm have 250 Poison, 250 Tailor, 175 Smith and 200 in everything else.

I do not think the new poisons are worth the effort + cost. I'm entirely sure they are not worth buying, I have an issue paying what they *cost to make* for the benefits, I'll surely not pay more than that. I'll do the quest if I ever get the PoF\PoH parts for the sake of doing them.

I do believe in 1-2 months after the novelty has worn off not many will be using poisons. Seems like a whole lot of wasted effort revamping it.

I do hold the smallest hope that there is more to be discovered. Maybe something equivilent to endless quiver.

It pisses me off that our AA may be so poor because they had factored in the new poison system.

[EZ_Gilgame Heart]

enchant clay is a level 8 enchanter spell last time i check it doenst take long to get to level 8. you dont even need to do anything either. bring your main to cb and farm as many belts as you can. then make a high elf with max int and give her/him your belts. run to kaladim and bam. @#%$ load of exp. this might take more then 1 trip but it will take you less then an hour to make your own enchanted clay.

as for the tinkered part dont do it. tinkers are bitches and you dont need them. if your a rouge then you should have mastered pottery by level 30 let alone level 59. simply get the components and make your own vials. repeat, make you own vials. poison vials cost 1.1 pp of merchants and only 3 gold for the sketch. every time you make your own vial you save 66 percent of the costs. this adds up quickly when your working with lined or sealed vials. you cant escape suspension however but that stuff is usually alot less expensive then the vials anyway.

theres loads of little tricks i learn to save cash. they require alot of time and patience however. farm your own supplys only wen you have to. if someone offers to get them for you then farm another yourself. you can skip exping a bit to train in poison just dont rush and make stupid mistakes.

when your doing any kind of trade skill take your minus cha gear off and put all your int, wisdom and CHA gear on. cha helps prices and int and wisdom help te skill increase and execution rates. smarter rouge races are better at trade skills. the wood elf for instance may be weaker and has less hp then the other races BUT he has nice agi, dex, wisdom, int and cha. with the same equipment and the same time rate the wood elf will always master pottery or poisons before a barbarian while at the same time spending less money.

[EZ_JJ the rogue]

just as a quick note to the people saying poison is too expinsive. if you quest and get a coffin bottle (admitaly this might be expinsive for you to do) you will never have to make another advanced poison vial again. just make 20 vails and only use the 5 and 10 does poisons, when you combine them you get your vials back as of last patch. <img src=http://lara.wortech.ac.uk/mpeggs/images/wav_anim/sciktga.gif>
<br><b><a href=http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=116385><font color="white">Johnjacob Jinglehymersmit</font></a></b>
<br><font color="black">Level 60 Assassin, Veeshan</font>
<br><b><font color="red">Veeshan Hafling Brigade</b></font>
<br>

[EZ_NedraNightblade]

Okay I see someone posted the news about the vials being returned, as a side note we did some boss(Azerin....somesuch) last night and my aggro reducing/ str debuff went off 9 times in a short fight to be resisted 0 times....15 minutes for ~6plat on a Boss mob with a good affect....I will take it Nedra NightBlade
Another member of the Rogue Horde of Silent Redemption

I have my own little world. But it's OK...they know me here.
Anonymous

now, yall realize that the aggro detaunt probably only barely covers the aggro generated by the str/dex debuff right? If you want detauntage, use the pure detaunt poison.

Ninen of Saryrn
The War Council "Carlotta lay on the mound of pillows strewn about the floor of the poolhouse, back arched and head thrown back, screaming the name of the only man who had ever taken her to the pinnacle of unbridled ecstasy, the only man with whom she had experienced the overwhelming rush of carnal electricity - unfortunately not the man who now peered up at her from the tangle of hastily discarded clothing with the sullen and quizzical visage of a calf looking at a new gate."

[Shalysa]

I want to love the new poisons, I really do. In fact with the coffin vial now returning the advanced vials, expense wise, it is a ton more viable.

I have really enjoyed the quests. I haven't even hated VI too much for making me go back to hate/fear at level 65. (Even in a single group it's boring as heck and next to zero XP). And except for that blasted cask, I didn't even mind re-redeeming myself (although I admit, it was enjoyable to kill Lon).

But the ingredients... ugh. Why, Why, WHY must there be any farming involved? If they had to make it dropped components instead of letting us buy them, I would prefer they put all the components back on level 20 critters that I can farm on my own.

Ocean Ink? I get to farm greenies in Kedge or SG -- greenies that I can't solo, and have to have help to farm? Ditto wax flowers in seb or velks. I hadn't been in either place in months before the expansion -- and why would I go back there now when its all green? And like SG/Kedge, neither place can I solo very quickly or effectively.

*I* don't want to sit for hours gathering components that add more flavor than effectiveness, much less drag friends along for the ride.

Charye may have lots of friends with lots of twinks, but I don't belong to that kind of guild. Yea, they are my friends, but we don't spend a lotta time on twinks. And even the alts people DO play are post 60. We raid, we get AAs, and with the new expansion we pushed to level.

I really do want to like the new poisons, but unless Verant decides to put all the ingredients on a vendor (charge an arm and a leg if necessary, or stick him somewhere rather tough to reach) I can't see me using them with any kind of regularity.

I don't understand the reasoning behind it, I truly don't. Even the most powerful DD poison adds little to our damage output. It is fun, it is roguely, but it isn't so overpowering as to require such an incredible waste of time farming. Edited by: Shalysa at: 11/3/02 4:19:10 am

Shalysa just check the NPC vendors/ PCTraders in bazaar/PoK fer the components... I've even bought Ocean Ink from NPC Merchants. many ppl just dump them there... ingredients are not really the problem. I dun have any prob getting most of the ingredient.. it just the 2 piercer that are a pain to get on my server... PoF and hate being on rotation... and to some rogues those are an upgrade..~shrug.

I envy that ye can be on a server where PoF and PoH are considered Xp zones... I have been waiting over a week now fer guilds to send me tell when an extra eyerazzia drops... Seems like only 1 drop per raid making it even harder when everyone needs it now. Maybe next year i will try again once everyone else has 1.

But I do agree that some of the poison ingredient to be sold on NPC... Maybe fer more fun, make it such that a rogue need to sneak-hide past KoS mob to get to him...

Another thing, do u guys also notice that there is no secret rogue area... u know like pull a book on shelf and the whole wall slides open? I have been runnig around looking fer such things in PoP.. ohh well...

regards,

[EZ_Dave Th]

I agree, if I was a game designer i would have done it a little different. With the benefit of hindsight this is what I would liek to see.

Each tier 1 posion ingredient have 2 drop locations. One among greenies that we can solo farm (I can 2-box so this is not too much of an issue for me). And a second source from an area where 61+ can get exp.

Create a vendor that will exchange componants. Here I just got a stack of flowers, can I trade you a stack of sulpher. This way your not making your friends go to spots so you can farm trash.

The Hate/Fear thing just sucks. Our guild is beyond these Nooby zones now. Unless CT is up we aint going as a guild, yet it is still too tough a zone for a single group. Sure 2 groups can ruin the zone but that is a lot of people your inviting along for a no exp evening. It would have been nice if tey could have picked a different place or a different item. Oh, sure Sony wated that old code to have a renewed life but this aint the best way.

Wished they replace Eyerazzia with some hard to make poison like Mind melt/Inferno Blood or even both. I actually enjoyed collecting all the poisons and made many friends along the way even PLing a monk while collecting Spiroc Bonedust. I think PoP TP system helps alot.

Remove Shrieking Ahlspiess and create a more interesting roguish quest.. Or a way to forge/make a fake Shrieking Ahlspiess to trick the Halas GM. Seesh we are rogues damn it.. I want a easier way out of this.. How about going to his house and robbing the sketch? And the house is full of traps... Our Disarm trap skill is not even being used in any of them...

Burning rapier seems fine to me a very fun and roguish quest. except the BB camp part.. But u will have alot of ppl there to help ye if u tempt them well...

reagards,

[Underdawg Darogue]

Dude stop complaining about having to farm poisons. You DONT have to farm components. Goto the zone in question and broadcast that you want to buy them. You will have a buncha tells right off the bat. Or goto PoK and Bazaar and buy them off merchants. Try to be alittle creative sometimes man.

[Shalysa]

I can get phosphorus powder and drops of mercury in the bazaar at a trickling in kinda rate (and lots of expense. There are people on my server selling drops of mercury for 75pp EACH). Tainted planar essences aren't too much of a problem. Neither is golden ember powder. I check vendors every day in both nexus and bazaar and I check other vendors as I encounter them and so far I have come up with all of 8 plague mites, maybe 10 dust of decay, 2 crystallized sulpher and a few noddling blue lillies. No other poison ingredients.

I am on an old server. I haven't seen a real newbie in months. Most twinks are twinks of alts of mains that have been around forever. People just don't loot the little bits of crap that might be worth less than a couple plat to a vendor. It is a waste of space when they are outfitted in armor as good as what I wore at 60, with thousands of plat in the bank. Plus, people just aren't IN these level 40-60 zones on my server right now. I zoned into sebilis in the middle of prime time Saturday night, to see if I could buy some wax flowers off people, and there were 11 people in the zone. There were fewer in Velks and none in SG.

So basically without hours and hours of farming, I will be able to make the tier 1 DD poison with ingredients I can find often on vendors.

Hold me back.

edit: p.s. I am not a dude, I am a woman =) Edited by: Shalysa at: 11/3/02 1:27:15 pm

[EZ_ArudBastad]

Hello!! Vendors? I farm vendors for about 30 min wherever I am at and always find some things, as far as the vials go, they are returned once combining them in a coffin bottle. And for those of you complaining about charged poisons only being for the 59+ crowd, Level up whiners!

Darud Bastad
60 Assassin of Bristlebane
"May as well let me ML, I'm gonna rob you all blind anyway"

[EZ_meyekal]

levek up ? /finger

The poison revamp is flawed, plan and simple. I'm glad everyone who can make a GMAV is happy. For those who can't get their GMAV due to level, the new system is just as bad as the old.

[EZ_NedraNightblade]

As far as componants I will say this....The otters in CS for ocean ink, a ton of differant ones in FV at the merchants...and merchants in POT


I have yet to farm one item and have made a 10 pack of all but a couple poisons at least.... Nedra NightBlade
Another member of the Rogue Horde of Silent Redemption

I have my own little world. But it's OK...they know me here.
Anonymous

[EZ_feck opression]

Why not just make all this stuff sold on venders? Ohh wait nm, we would be way to powerful then. rofl


Eversink


f e c k . t r i b u n a l . a s s a s s i n

[EZ_Soulstealler]

the only thing i really find disapointing is that we get no new melee slow poison. dangit they mad a snare one comparable to the old so why not a melee like SE but not single dose, oh waite they like making us hunt in a newbie zone for rare ass venom sacks (heartsting what?)



arggg bad sig, down boy down! Edited by: Soulstealler at: 11/10/02 3:00:49 am

[EZ_RatOmatic]

Poison makes the Rogue..... Not Rogue makes the poison...

[Pyrocat Moonstalker]

"the only thing i really find disapointing is that we get no new melee slow poison. dangit they mad a snare one comparable to the old so why not a melee like SE but not single dose, oh waite they like making us hunt in a newbie zone for rare ass venom sacks (heartsting what?) "

nods, I have *no* problem with the new poison system (except the price of mercurite ore) but I really wish they would add a slow poison heh, myabe like 15% but stacks with enchanter and shaman slow

May thy blade stay ever sharp, thy soul ever dark.
Blackitty Pantheramoon 58th Blackguard <D`etre>
Traverse Moonstalker 51st Wanderer
Lurker of The Safehouse
~Prexus Server~

[EZ_KayleighDrake]

I've found very little not to like about the new system. It's a nice bonus if you want to spend the time (and I did) but not a character-killer if you don't. I enjoy it but I can see where others might not. If you want to farm or have connections, you can. If you want to just spend cash and get ingredients from vendors, you can. If you don't want to do it at all, you can do that too.

If I had a wishlist:

1. Make Mercuric Ore stackable (can't imagine why it isn't)
2. Change poison mastery. Since the apply check is gone and the time as well, remove that part. Instead, have it increase the duration the poison lasts.


Osprey
Assassin
Triad Continuum

[EZ_noctur]

I like that idea, extended duration on poison mastery would be real nice. Maybe 5/15/30 min increase ?

Noctur Docter
65 Deceiver
Ashen Vendetta
Innoruuk Server