View Full Version : sharing DSL: router firewall ??s
01-13-04, 09:21 AM
I have an Earthlink DSL connection, and since Cablevision pissed my mom off with a billing error they were trying to force her to pay, she cancelled getting Optimum Online cable service.
I am now trying to figure out how to share my current connection with the two other computers in the house. Three computers, three users... three different rooms.
Earthlink tells me that I can have up to 3 IP's active through my connection, but they do not provide technical support for networking, so I come to you, oh gurus! I need a solution that will allow all three of us to be able to use the connection at the same time without too much degradation.
All are running Windows XP Home edition, and all are ethernet-ready.
I can set up 4 email addresses, so I would like to get them set up with their own email addresses that they can access through Outlook as well, but that comes after being able to get them connected to the 'net. Edited by: Dragynphyre at: 2/11/04 10:37 am
01-13-04, 09:42 AM
Simple way would be to connect them with a 4 port DSL/Cable router. That way, your only using one IP, you will have NAT installed and you still have the connectivity between computers (locally).
I know many have cast dispersions on Linksys, but I've been using one in my house (sharing 4 computers with up to 3 of those connected to EQ at a time) for about 4 years now...no problems. Gravedigger? When you dig my grave, could you make it shallow so that I can feel the rain?
~ Dave Matthews ~
01-13-04, 10:16 AM
I'd recommend using a router too. They require very little to be set up.
I never had even a hicup of a problem with my linksys router.
Newegg has a quality linksys router for $50.
Cat 5 line ranges from 7 feet to 100 feet, prices vary from $2 to $7.
You could always go wireless too, they are going down in price pretty quickly.
01-13-04, 10:46 AM
100 feet of Cat5 MIGHT reach the furthest computer. I'll have to do a measurement running along the walls, because I can't do a straight shot. It's gonna look ugly as all hell running out of my room, and down the hall to the living room in any case.
The other computer I can get away with drilling a hole through my closet and into his closet, 25 feet max I think.
Wireless, you speak of?
01-13-04, 10:48 AM
Indeed. You'll have to talk to somebody else about that, though. I've never purchased or set one up before.
I ran my cat 5 cable under my house, 100 feet is a pretty damn long. You can't put it much further then that without setting up a hub halfway to increase the signal. Edited by: Bondori Zafiro at: 1/13/04 10:49 am
01-13-04, 10:52 AM
About the emails just go to your DSL providers page and they should have an email page.
Log in and add users. Then use each of the users name and passwords on each respective pc.
01-13-04, 10:55 AM
Also, the router is it's own seperate entity in your network. You dont have to put the router and cable modem right inside your bedroom with your computer, you can put it anywhere to get the max reach.
I had mine inside a walk-in closet for a long time. It was always cool in there so it worked out well.
01-13-04, 11:40 AM
Mom's not so thrilled with the idea of cables running down the hall, and we rent so we can't run the wires through the walls. But, if there's no other way, she has to deal with oo-glay.
The router would need to be positioned in my room only because that's the only place there'd be room for it right now, as well as the fact that the phone line and DSL modem are there as well. (it's set up on my own number, not the house line)
The hallway is long enough for the cat to build up quite a bit of speed by the time she reaches the end, so I'd say about 30'...but I'd have to get out the tape measure.
01-13-04, 12:50 PM
When I rented I ran my cables under the baseboard...the only problem with that is if you have rooms going in the same direction you might want to run 1 wire and set up a hub when it splits. Otherwise you find yourself trying to cram more cables under the baseboard than will fit.
Another way to do it with cables is to get cables the same color as your carpet/baseboard and staple them along the baseboard just above the carpet (do a few trial runs so you know where your staple guns staples come out and you don't end up firing into the cable). That's what I have here.
On wireless, it's going through a lot of changes right now but I think that if you buy a router then the one you want is 802.11g ...I could be wrong though. I have a wireless router that I use for my notebook but that's about it. The problem with that is you have to buy a router and 3 cards. Though, often you can find boxed sets of home networking equipment for that.
01-13-04, 01:41 PM
Ok, I managed to talk mom into going router/cat5 to save a few bucks rather than paying for more than one broadband account in the household
We're going to have to run the cable along the ceiling to be able to make it to her computer within the 100' range (the phone lines run up and over each doorway on that side of the hall, and there's 4 doorways!)
Ugly solution... now just have to figure out what router is best for the job. 3 concurrent users on a DSL line (Windows XP popup says I connect at 10.0 mb/sec) during evening peak time.
Here's what Earthlink has to say about home networking - Do I really need to pay for the service, or can I manage to take care of this with the help of my tech-ish friends...
EarthLink Home Networking opens up your high-speed connection to all your IP electronic equipment. Besides sharing your high-speed connection across all your PCS, you can play your Xbox or PS 2 against friends across the street or across the country, stream your MP3 music straight to your stereo or show your digital photos on your television set. EarthLink Home Networking connects your home so you can enjoy the benefits of high-speed without being tethered to your PC.
With EarthLink Home Networking, you can connect your devices through ethernet or wireless connections. Explore the many features and benefits of EarthLink Home Networking through the links on the left.
EarthLink Home Networking won't break your budget--unlimited service costs only $9.95 per month.* Plus, with a 12-month agreement, we'll rebate the cost of the EarthLink-supplied router, saving even more money.
Simply call us at 1-800-EARTHLINK
(1-800-327-8454) and let our friendly Home Networking experts help you choose the right equipment for your home. Our award-winning technical support team is available 24/7 to make sure that you stay connected.
*EarthLink Home Networking is $9.95 per month in addition to your EarthLink High Speed Internet monthly access fee.
EarthLink reserves the right to substitute comparable hardware.
01-13-04, 01:43 PM
I'm looking into the same thing and basically deciding on Wireless for things outside of the room the DSL bridge goes in and normal cat inside. I agree that under the baseboard is a good, simple work-around in many cases. You can also go strait under the carpet if your pad is thick enough.
Problem with wireless of course is poor setup. plus .11g cards are 100 and AP's are 300. (ouch). You might be able to justify the upgrade to your landlord. It adds signifigant worth to the house to have it run in cat5 if it's done correctly. Also, rather than just drilling holes through the wall, put in an outlet box, drywall type, and put a cat5 plate on the front. When you move out, put a blank plate over the front. Apartment leasers have no friggin clue what half of the outlets, blank plated things do anyway. They won't even question there being another one.
01-13-04, 01:45 PM
actually, in reading their website and thinking about it, I think I'll do it myself - they're charging about $30 more for the same equipment available from Newegg.com, and the $9.95 a month seems to be just for the customer service - bleh.
01-13-04, 03:41 PM
If they're giving you three IPs, you shouldn't need a router. Just plug the DSL modem and the PCs into a hub. The point of these broadband NAT routers is to share one IP address between multiple computers.
If you have 3 internet IP addresses available from your ISP, use them. You won't have to mess with NAT and port forwarding and the stuff that doesn't work because of it. Hubs are cheaper than routers, and more stuff will just work right without ANY setup of any kind.
Note that a switch acts the same as a hub, it's just a little smarter. If you use a switch your LAN will be faster, but it's not really a big deal.
I've never tried it, but you're supposed to be able to use a pair of WET11s as a bridge. It should work with the newer 802.11g ones too. Basically you could have the hub in your room and run a cable to one of these things. Put another one of these in the living room and run a cable from that to the PC. You're basically just replacing a chunk of the wire (from your room to the living room) with wireless transceivers. This way is going to cost you a lot more though. -------------------------
01-13-04, 05:02 PM
Now that Earthlink is actually providing the Home Networking as a paid service, I'm not sure that they do the 3 IP thing anymore, but I think one connection should be enough to handle the three of us goofing around on the 'net at the same time.
A router and a few feet of Cat5 isn't so prohibitively expensive that I would worry about not having absolute top speed on every computer anyway, and I'm not about to add an additional $120 a year + the cost at which Earthlink is charging for Linksys routers that are cheaper for me to get elsewhere. As for support, I have a few folks I can turn to that already have home networks set up, and the occasional post here.
Now, all I need to know is what all the gobbledygook on the descriptions of the routers out on Newegg means, and I'll be golden.
Thanks for all the ideas, folks.
if you don't mind spending 100 more bucks you can just go wireless. These are bestbuy prices can probably find a better deal with searching around on the net. You'll get a lil slower of speeds but as long as they're just using the internet for web browsing / email it'll be fine. Slower meaning a 11mbps connection compared to the 100mbps cat5 connection.
To get it going you'll need to purchase three items.
Usb adapters x2
It almost makes it plug and play install. Can set it up in 15minutes. I'll see if i can find better prices when i do my fw browsing
01-13-04, 06:26 PM
The limit for cat5 cables isn't 100 feet though its 100 meters more like 300 feet.
01-13-04, 08:23 PM
I really like Gyorg's idea of putting in outlet boxes. We just did this for a friend of mine and I didn't even think of it. We put in a dual jack where his phone line was, ethernet up top and phone line on the bottom. It was incredibly easy to run it just like you'd run a phone line and it looks great having the outlets all over the house~ If I planned to live in this house longer I'd do the same.
Plus, you could easily just disconnect the outlet box just like he said and either put a blank plate (if you ran it to an all new spot) or put a normal phone line (if you ran it to the phone jack).
01-14-04, 06:21 AM
I can't run cable in the walls in this apartment - unless I want to learn how to re-lathe and re-plaster walls ... quality - no drywall!
Besides which, the landlord wouldn't know anything about the added value that a fully networked apartment could give when we move out... the additional phone lines were run up and over doorways and along walls, and even the cable TV still has the coax cables running along the baseboards rather than in the walls with jacks. I think the only reason he even knows what satellite TV is is because he's a raving Italian soccer maniac.
(I will be doing this when we finally find a 2 family house on the market that isn't a piece of doo-doo. )
Wireless probably won't be an option because while the other two folks will probably just be surfing, I play EQ & NWN... plus, I do most of my banking and bill payment online and I don't like the security issues with wireless, no matter how infinitesimal the possibilities of a security breach could be.
01-14-04, 11:44 AM
If you decide to get a router, my advice is to get the cheapest name-brand one you can find. I got a D-Link DI-704 for $20 (slickdeals.net). There was talk of doing wireless stuff, so a friend let me use a Netgear MR314 router/802.11b AP that he wasn't using. There are some things the cheapo D-Link does better even. Many of them use the same chipsets inside, and offer similar features. I haven't found enough of a difference between them to warrant paying $70 over $20.
Basically you just plug your internet connection into the router's WAN port and plug your PCs into the LAN ports. You might have to clone your PCs MAC address into the router if your ISP uses that as an identifier (most routers now have a "Clone" button or you can manually enter it). Regular web and email stuff will just work.
You may need to set up port forwarding for some things. Anytime someone else initiates a connection to your machine, the router needs to be told that this sort of connection should be forwarded to this PC. Most IM programs use "direct connections" for extra features like file transfers and voice chat. The person trying to send you a file connects to your internet IP address (which is actually the router) on some port (like 5555). You need to tell the router to forward stuff on port 5555 to your PC. You also need to configure your IM program to use port 5555, so that it tells the other person to make the connection on 5555, so the router knows to forward it (by default, most just pick a random port to use). You need one port per connection. Generally 10 will cover all the simultaneous connections you'd need to make. You'll also need to set up 10 more ports to forward to PC2 and tell PC2's IM program to use 5565-5574, and 10 more forwards for PC3 and tell PC3's IM program to use 5575-5584. You'll have to copy this for each program on each PC that needs a "direct connection" like this. If you have a program that doesn't let you specify which ports to use (i.e. SuperProgramX always uses 4444), then you'll only be able to use that on one of your PCs at a time.
Also, some things use the PC's IP address inside the program (VPN stuff is the first one that comes to mind). Your PCs will get private LAN IP addresses, probably something like 192.168.0.x. For security, the program sticks your PC's IP address into the data, then compares it at the other end to the IP address that it got the data from. So the program sticks 192.168.0.10 into the data. At the other end, the server says "Hey, this says 192.168.0.10 (which is your PC's IP) but we're connected to 22.214.171.124 (which is your internet IP, which the router has). Don't use this data." Most programs take NAT into account now and don't do this, but it's possible you could run into it.
If you were to get an IP for each PC from Earthlink, each PC would be connected to the internet. You wouldn't have to monkey with port forwarding to get the connection to go to the right PC. 126.96.36.199 would be your PC, 188.8.131.52 would be PC2, and 184.108.40.206 would be PC3. If something wanted to connect to one of those, it would just connect to them. It would also require only a hub/switch to connect the PCs together, not a router. You can find a small hub or switch for $30-$40 at Best Buy anytime, and cheaper if you look online or wait for a sale. If you can get the extra IPs, that way will be a lot simpler and everything can just work as designed (as opposed to having to work around the NAT stuff). -------------------------
using static IP's connected to the internet is comparable to walking around with you credit cards taped to the back of your jacket.. your jsut asking for trouble..
get a $49 router and use NAT and the other firewall features to protect yourself and your family from the inevitable attacks from nefarious internet users..
01-14-04, 04:02 PM
Not using a router would put Dragynphyre's other two PCs in the exact same position the first PC has been in all along...
Disable stuff you don't need for that network connection, get a good firewall, and keep up to date with patches and you should have the exact same number of problems. Considering how many of these problems rely on some sort of unknowing user interaction (as opposed to a pure worm), simply being behind a NAT router is sort of a false sense of security.
I'm speaking from the point of someone who has to explain why Joey and Susie can check their email and surf the web, but Program X doesn't work at all, or only for one person at a time. -------------------------
01-14-04, 06:19 PM
luckily, we have dynamic IP assignment, not static, so I don't have to worry about that too much
my BF says that I may experience problems playing EQ if I'm sharing one DSL connection between the 3 computers, best friend says that that shouldn't be the case
01-14-04, 07:42 PM
My house has...*counts*...5 computers through ethernet and one computer running through wireless all on the same DSL line. For a long time 4 of those 6 were playing EQ at the same time and we never had a problem (not even tiny lag).
On the subject of security, if you really want to get into that...thinking that a personal firewall is more safe than a router will get you into trouble. They both have their strong points, same as they both have their weak points. If you're concerned about your security, use both. If you're really concerned about security, use more than one router, each of different brands, and a personal firewall.
Speaking of routers, the more holes you punch in your firewall for specific programs, the less secure you are. In general (and this is usually too annoying for most people to do) turn port fowarding on when you need it and off when you don't. Opening ports on your firewall is much like putting 7 locks on your door and forgetting to pull it shut~
Personally, I prefer Linksys for routers, though I have others as well. Friend of mine has a DLink that he uses which is pretty user friendly but I find it lacking in a lot of areas. It's one of the cheaper models, so that's to be expected. The best routers are those that only have to reset when you change major settings~
01-14-04, 10:08 PM
My wife and I play EQ behind the D-Link. Before we got married, she also used it and another router (Linux-based) with 3-4 other EQ players. No problems and nothing to configure.
Depending on the quality of your connection, you may run into issues. You're basically trying to do three times as much through the same connection. If it's a decent connection, you shouldn't have any problems, but it could possibly happen. -------------------------
02-01-04, 01:53 PM
I am just gonna bump this so I can find it and read it easy later today. Since I am gonna be doing this on monday-wed. I know, its sad that I give myself 3 days to do this .
02-04-04, 05:30 AM
02-04-04, 07:11 AM
Quote:I am just gonna bump this so I can find it and read it easy later today. Since I am gonna be doing this on monday-wed. I know, its sad that I give myself 3 days to do this .
If all you are doing is setting up the router to share network and internet access, you won't need the three days, trust me. Maybe 30 minutes depending on how deliberate you are.
I just took a small (read 3 computer) network off of ICS (Internet connection sharing) to a router this last Sunday, and to break the process down all you do is:
1) Unplug some wires.
2) Plug those wires back in (in a different spot in my case).
3) Power stuff up.
4) Run the setup wizard.
5) Test to make sure it all works.
That's it. Of course, once you play EQ you may have to finagle with allowing ports access depending on the brand of the router (I bought a D-Link, no issues so far with default settings), but that is when you come back and pick the brains of people here.
Good luck Edited by: Sillis Spineslicer at: 2/4/04 7:12 am
02-10-04, 11:27 AM
Ok, got me a D-Link 4 port router (don't ask me the model number, I'm at work and it's at home) with 100ft and 25ft lengths of Cat 5 this weekend. Going to look into hooking it up tonight. (Back In Black)
Delissandra Splitshadow - Marauder of Clan X
Grandmaster Poisoner (250), Master Potter (191), Grandmaster Lush (200)
02-10-04, 11:35 AM
If it is the DL-604 it is the same one I have. You shouldn't have any issues
I am kicking myself for waiting as long as I did to do a router instead of ICS. Ah well. Poo happens.
02-11-04, 08:04 AM
Yup, it's the D-Link DL 604 (after examining the box, turns out that it's a pretty new one with the newest version of the firmware, in fact). Got it for a total of $42 (with tax included). 125 feet of cable cost me a mere $17
Set up the router in a temporary spot in my room last night, and got the settings all done by about midnight (about 15 minutes of work, all told.
Ran cable down the hall (100 ft is quite enough, more than enough. I might buy a crimping tool so I can shorten it once I have it tacked up with a few feet of slack at either end)
Plugged it into my mom's PC, but didn't work. So I restarted, entered bios, and enabled the on-board ethernet port, restarted, installed drivers, and set up the LAN connection.
To test, I ran Windows Update, which hadn't been run on that PC yet, and downloaded & installed all 14 critical updates that it needed, plus a few other updates, within 15 minutes.
Today I set up some email addresses for my mom and my brother (half tempted to put parental controls on my brother's login hehehe), since Earthlink gives me 8 of 'em. I set up email virus protection on all the accounts (free with my service package). Spamblocker set to medium on all. (hate having to make allow lists, because sometimes I get emails from addresses that aren't on my allow list, that I do want to keep)
I also get 10mb of webspace per email free as part of service package, so the other 5 are going to get used by me if I run out of space on the primary one when I'm re-doing my website.
I figure if I'm paying over $50 a month for service, I might as well take advantage of every service they give me that I don't have to pay extra for
02-11-04, 10:37 AM
Ok, got my D-Link DI 604 (Revision E) set up, and it has a firewall setup button on it, but I'm such a goober I have NO idea what to do with it.
RTFM right? Heh. This is what the manual says:
Firewall Rules is an advance feature used to deny or allow traffic from passing through the Broadband Router. It works in the same way as IP Filters with additional settings. You can create more detailed access rules for the DI-604. When virtual services are created and enabled, it will also display in Firewall Rules. Firewall Rules contains all network firewall rules
pertaining to IP (Internet Protocol).
In the Firewall Rules List at the bottom of the screen, the priorities of the rules are from top (the highest priority) to the bottom (the lowest priority.)
02-11-04, 10:47 AM
I am just using the "out of the box" settings for the firewall and such. I tried a couple of port scanning sites, and they all came back OK. The sharing works, and the home network works. The test sites say no major issues. Life is good, no need to tempt fate
Don't worry about all the bells and whistles unless you need to. It just invites problems. I just work on problems when I run across them. The default firewall settings should be quite adequate for your needs I would think.
*edit* Spell checking is for wimps! Edited by: Sillis Spineslicer at: 2/11/04 10:48 am
02-11-04, 11:21 AM
Ok, so I don't need to actually click "enable" and define what should be allowed/denied?
02-11-04, 12:43 PM
Nope. If you look at the bottom there should be three checkmarked and grayed out selections. These are basic router firewall functions. They are more than adequate to stop anything froggy. Between that and making sure your Window's Update is current is all you should need really IMO. I also meant to put in here and up to date virus protection.
Only mess with the settings if you have a special need. It seems like it is EQ friendly, and I have yet to run across anything that has given me issues.
Those allow and denied settings will let you set up access to stuff that would normally be blocked and block stuff normally allowed. Like I said, no need to mess with it unless there is a specific need. A home EQ user/internet surfer doesn't need to mess with them. At least I haven't found anything yet.
If you try to set up a FTP or a Unreal server or something like that, well then you will need to make some changes.
*edit* Added the italicized part. Edited by: Sillis Spineslicer at: 2/11/04 12:45 pm
02-11-04, 01:53 PM
cool, thanks Sillis