Freaken Ninja Looters

[Velvetrose]

AARRGHH I thought that they had this fixed but Nooooooo..... :angry

I thought that one of the reasons for "Locking an encounter" was to help get rid of this problem. Making it so that people couldn't "out damage" your mob thus stealing your XP and drops. But another problem seems to have popped up.

Unfortunately EVERYONE in your group can click on loot at the same time and so ANYONE can click <loot all> or <loot item>.

I was grouped with someone today who kept clicking <loot all> even when it was determined ahead of time that what was to drop off said mob would go to player X. So I strongly recommend that looting standards are set well before you actually get a good drop, and quickly boot anyone from your group who starts to ninja loot.

I do understand the whole concept of "being Evil", yes we were of the Evil persuasion... but stealing from your group, I find, totally unacceptable. Its been 4 hours and I'm still steamed about it. I started a group to get all of us the "X marks the spot" Quest and this guy not only <loot all> the good drops from the chest, but I found out, after he removed himself from our group that he had looted My map, and the map of 2 others in our group...I thought that I had looted it as agreed but when I opened my bags to do the turn in, it was gone and he was OOCing that he had our maps and there was nothing we could do about it.

So be warned it isn't like EQ where once someone clicks on body to loot, the body is locked and prevents anyone else looting.

I so wish I could remember how to spell this asswipes name so that I could warn others but I will remember him if and when I see him again :evil

[torvrogue]

Turn on the lotto loot option.

[Velvetrose]

Yeah someone told me about that nice little feature...doesn't it only work if your the Leader of group? But at the time i didn not know of this and so couldn't tell the leader to do so.

[Peebs]

It really isn't the game's fault, it was your group leader's fault. There are multiple loot options including auto-lotto, leader loots all, and free for all. If your group leader insists on looting everything and not sharing I suggest finding another group.

[Tannier]

My issue with the looting system is this...


Groups have rapidly adopted the lotto system.

Sounds fine, eh?

The problem is that since the lotto system is now an in-game mechanic, written by SOE and therefore implicitly approved by the gods, need before greed is officially dead.

When the greedy S.O.B. caster wins the auto-lotto on the spiffy scout ability or weapon, they have absolutely no inclination to say "hey, would you happen to need this?" In their view, they won it fair and square.

So here I sit, at the end of an evening of hunting, I've been passing on all kinds of drops (armor that only the tank can wear, robes/shirt type stuff that really only the caster would want, blunt weapons only the cleric would want, etc. etc. etc.). Scout spell drops. When I point out to the greed wracked little gnome caster that it was a scout spell he won, and one I need, he gets all pissy with me and says no way. Not even to sell it to me.

Now, I know that ultimately it all works out if we just let lotto rule the world. The problme is that I do my best to only take what I need and let the rest go to those that need it. And the auto-lotto makes that no longer a viable tactic. Either we go back to the age old "stop the group everytime a member changes out and explain looting rules" or go with the lotto (which is faster and easier but far less fair). In the end I think it just makes it harder to get folks to do the right thing.

WOW introduced a need before greed setting in their loot lottl system. It's too bad SOE has always had such blinders on when it comes to recognizing their weaknesses.

Ok rant over :hmph

[Velvetrose]

Good point Tannier, I noticed that also. I have also noticed that players who came from EQ are better at loot sharing then others that I've grouped with. Our group got a good Caster earring and a Fighter won lotto and wouldn't let the Cleric who just kept him alive have it. She left our group and he died next mob :)

Just reward Id say for his greed.

[Peebs]

Most groups I've been in have shared and done need before greed. It's really no different in EQ, you can set up the group however you want as long as you make the rules clear. If I get a skill upgrade that somebody else needs I'll just give it to them without them having to ask. Usually they will do the same afterward, if not I'll survive.

I'm a big fan of need before greed, but in random groups it just isn't practical. If you have 4 fighters, 1 scout, and 1 priest in your group it isn't really fair to the fighters.

One way EQ2 differs drastically from EQ1 is that anywhere you go there is a good chance of something dropping that anyone can use. Skill upgrade books, quest items, random armor or magic items, etc.

Personally, I love the auto-loot system. It's quick, painless, and gets the adventure moving along (rather than everyone having to stop and do all of the /randoms like in EQ1). All of the tools are there to do need before greed, but auto makes the most sense. Besides, we are also dealing with very early levels, so things could change.

[Nymm]

When possible I preferred lotto in the group options with the understanding that you only ask for items you can use. If nobody can use em, then all in for it.

[Joonling]

I've been pretty fortunate with my groups and haven't really had any problems except once. A few of us were completing a quest and a mage asked if she could join. She did and we went into the battle. A chest dropped and she immediately opened it, looted it, and then left before anyone could ask her about it. It wasn't really anything that I particularly wanted, I just thought it was rude of her to be like that. Yes, the leader should've had auto-loot on, but still she could've had common courtesy. Especially since, as the only rogue in the group, I could've helped the group avoid a nasty trap spell that lasted 10 min :hmph

Any of the other times the leader forgot to auto-loot, we've pretty much rolled, which tells me that so far I've met veteran EQ players. I do like the looting system and am glad that they changed it in this one. It would be nice for the "need before greed" policy of WOW, but I say enjoy what we do get and stop worrying about it.

[Skien]

Well while playing EQ2, the old rules from EQ1 seem to be in full swing.

In guild/friends groups, loot is passed about as usual to whomever needs it really.

In pickup groups, the lotto just saves the aggro of someone Ninja looting and camping.

I mean, be 100% honest.....when in the past 3 or 4 years of EQ has NBG ever been adhered to outside friends/guild groups ??

Ski

[Qutsmnie]

Wouldnt judge a game by the behavior of people that have played it 2 weeks.

As for how much CAWU went on in EQ?

On quellious a better question would be how many groups have you had that werent CAWU. Far more common then random on everything. I lived eat and breathed pickup exp groups and I was generally inclined to just let them decide and almost always the decision was CAWU.

Perhaps you were pushing your groups into /ran or maybe its different by server? Or perhaps tiering. From your tone I can ask maybe you had a bias? and that bias manifested in a biased result? Remain silent and most pickup groups go CAWU first almost always.

[Slyy Daugg]

man, I've NEVER beleived in NBG when it comes to tradable items. It just makes zero sense to even bother. If it's tradable, it can translate into something you can use. So what's the big deal?

SD

[Alasdair]

man, I've NEVER beleived in NBG when it comes to tradable items. It just makes zero sense to even bother. If it's tradable, it can translate into something you can use. So what's the big deal?

SD

Slyy,

Your either trying to be brew controversy or just plain ignorant. So, when your level 50 and the second best, or let's say the *best* 1handed dual wield piercing stiletto/dagger drops with instant-slay proc and its a tradeable item you won't mind if a cleric goes in on lotto?

Also, let's try a different stream of thought. The better a tanks ac, the less power needed to heal him. The better a DPS power, the more damage you can inflict on X mob to kill it faster. The better a non-tank melee dps the more damage you inflict on X mob to kill it faster. The concepts are quite simple. Using comon sense and need before greed, you will better equip your peers and hence improve your efficiency.

<Personal Attack Removed>

Just to support this I'll toss this out. 5 days played time on my SB. I've lead groups since nearly release day. I haven't had one loot disagreement in any of my groups. I've always used group lotto, but as we transition into more raid content then the loot system will be switched to group leader only since phat lewts will be held to the end of the raid, and point systems utilized.

Yes, I'm mean because I'm at work today and my half-day turned into a ten hour day. Damn you evil world!~

Regards,

Alasdair Isiki
Swashbuckler of Befallen
Level 25-

[Alasdair]

Well while playing EQ2, the old rules from EQ1 seem to be in full swing.

In guild/friends groups, loot is passed about as usual to whomever needs it really.

In pickup groups, the lotto just saves the aggro of someone Ninja looting and camping.

I mean, be 100% honest.....when in the past 3 or 4 years of EQ has NBG ever been adhered to outside friends/guild groups ??

Ski

Exactly. Group with friends/guild then assume general looting standards you can depend upon.

Group outside of that safety zone then I suggest you recruit people, be the group leader, and switch group leader loot only. Then have people dice for phat lewtz and cash items. /random 1 100 works nicely :)

Regards,

Alasdair Isiki
Swashbuckler of Befallen
Level 25-

[Alasdair]

My issue with the looting system is this...


Groups have rapidly adopted the lotto system.

Sounds fine, eh?

The problem is that since the lotto system is now an in-game mechanic, written by SOE and therefore implicitly approved by the gods, need before greed is officially dead.

When the greedy S.O.B. caster wins the auto-lotto on the spiffy scout ability or weapon, they have absolutely no inclination to say "hey, would you happen to need this?" In their view, they won it fair and square.

So here I sit, at the end of an evening of hunting, I've been passing on all kinds of drops (armor that only the tank can wear, robes/shirt type stuff that really only the caster would want, blunt weapons only the cleric would want, etc. etc. etc.). Scout spell drops. When I point out to the greed wracked little gnome caster that it was a scout spell he won, and one I need, he gets all pissy with me and says no way. Not even to sell it to me.

Now, I know that ultimately it all works out if we just let lotto rule the world. The problme is that I do my best to only take what I need and let the rest go to those that need it. And the auto-lotto makes that no longer a viable tactic. Either we go back to the age old "stop the group everytime a member changes out and explain looting rules" or go with the lotto (which is faster and easier but far less fair). In the end I think it just makes it harder to get folks to do the right thing.

WOW introduced a need before greed setting in their loot lottl system. It's too bad SOE has always had such blinders on when it comes to recognizing their weaknesses.

Ok rant over :hmph

Its a good rant, but....

Its like big government versus small government politics. Would you rather have big brother dictating or have the option to dictate yourself? I'll choose the later.

The easy fix is to form your own groups. Be nice, help some clerics/enchanters quest. Then, once you've established a support base start grouping with the same people. You have to start your own community within EQ2 or you'll be on the outside always look in, and generally getting reemed >:

Regards,

Alasdair Isiki
Swashbuckler of Befallen
Level25-

[Edgie]

Whenever possible, I do lead my groups. If you don't want to give the cleric adept to our cleric, you can find yourself a new group. On Guk, I have yet to be forced to kick anyone. All it usually takes is a simple, "Hey, soandso, groupmember_01 could use that, mind giving it to him?" Therefore, everyone knows when that spell they could really use drops, it goes right to them.

[ShadowCross]

Alasdair, warning for personal attack.

Having a bad day at work is not a justification for attacking another poster like you did. No need to insult others if they don't share your ideas.

[Axterix]

Also, let's try a different stream of thought. The better a tanks ac, the less power needed to heal him. The better a DPS power, the more damage you can inflict on X mob to kill it faster. The better a non-tank melee dps the more damage you inflict on X mob to kill it faster. The concepts are quite simple. Using comon sense and need before greed, you will better equip your peers and hence improve your efficiency.

But let's tackle this from the other side. You work hard to improve your gear. Bob does not. Something drops. Bob needs it. You don't. Bob gets stuff. You don't. And why? Because you worked hard to improve your gear before you joined the party. NBG punishes people that improve themselves, and denies them the means to further improve themselves.

Lotto, on the other hand, is fair, all around. Over time, it averages out. If you work hard to improve yourself, you will not be punished for it. If you slack or spend all your money on tradeskills, you don't benefit from it. Everyone has an equal chance at the rewards for the effort they put in.

Course, what really seals the deal on NBG is having someone NBG something that you could have used, but didn't need as badly...and then seeing them selling it the next day. Have that happen to you once or twice and you hop on the guild/friends NBG only bandwagon ;)

[Haradek Shadowstalker]

I have played on Mith Marr since may '99, the vast majority of the groups both guild and pickup have been NBG. To me thats always been the best solution.

Sure tradeable items can benefit you in the form of coin, but if it makes the tank a better meat shield, or the rogue a better stabber...cleric a better healer, etc.. then seems to me that the faster the mobs drop and more chances for loot for everyone.

~H

[Axterix]

What server you come from is probably another part of it, I'm from Zeb and the Rathe and that's a long tradition of lotto, well, and the old school lists but that died out with rubicite. Fair and works well. So that being what I've grown up with, that's what I prefer. NBG almost caught on for a while but the flaws with it killed it pretty quickly for the high level game. However, people weren't greedy, so those that won often gave the stuff away or just passed on things. People were nice by choice.

*grin*

Disagree that it makes for better equipt players though. The gear winds up in the hands of those who can use it either way. Plus you frequently never see the people you grouped with again...barring friends/guilds type situation. Since that is the case, I'll take the fairer and less exploitable lotto. I'll pass on stuff and give it away often, but again, that's my choice;)

[Cerith]

I haven't played a whole lot of EQ1 but i did get to experience both the NBG and the lotto, both have it perks in certain situations.

Like if you are out in a group that is formed mainly for xp than lotto on the items dropped is a good way to go. You can (if you feel like being nice) just decline on the items you don't want or cant use or try for it. You probably wont group with that person again in the nearest future that it would really make a dif.

But if you are in a guild group or a group that you know will be playing again, then NBG has its best perks here because you are making the fighter a better meat shield, that scout a better killer, and that healer a better healer not just for the moment but later when you group with that person again.

Of course there are situations where they might be different but overall that is what i think the programmers where thinking about when they introduced the auto-lotto. But why haven't they introduced a NBG system yet is beyond me.

[DarthEnderX]

While I like the idea of the autolotto I wish there were more options the leader could tweak with it.

Like, for chest loots, the system REALLY needs a way for the system to keep track of who has won stuff already and have an option to give items to people in the group who haven't won anything yet until everyone has won something.

I'm getting really pissed of people getting item after item after item, sometimes multiple items from the same BOX, just because they are lucky.

Again though, I want the option to only apply this to chest loot. I'd hate to have my drop taken up by something stupid like orc meat.

[Velvetrose]

I agree with you Darth.

I did not know about the Lotto option when I started this thread but since have insisted that it be in place in all my groups. It would be nice if there was some way to make those who have won a nice piece of loot inelligable until all have won something, a piece of meat or a hide not included.

I have tried to get people I group with to be on the honor system and refuse the lotto if they already won something. If they don't after being reminded of agreement I generally go find a new group.

Oh well I guess there isn't a perfect system.

[Joonling]

Yah, that would be awesome, Darth. Whenever I partner with this one guildmate, he ALWAYS wins ALL of the lottos for the important stuff, leaving me with the orc meat. It's a running joke in the guild and he gives me anything that I ask for. I'm lucky in that respect, but it's annoying to down right maddening when in a pickup group and with people who don't have to honor that.

[dugannw]

That would be a nice addition. I miss being in a guild, may have to hunt one down to group with so stupid stuff like this doesnt continue to happen.