Combat Mace Rogue! Dilemma (talent points)

[Jaesin]

I am a macerogue on a PVP server, so keep that in mind.
Points so far,

Improved Sinister Strike, rank 2.
Malice, rank 5.

2 points left over, I need to buy either 3 points in lightning reflexes, or improved gouge... My question then turns into, is gouge actually used much in PVP? I don't use daggers so a longer gouge won't help with backstab and I only use gouge to stun monsters so I can sprint away :P. I really don't want either, but I need 3 points to move onto tier 2.

Thanks again!

[Jaeden]

I would go with Gouge, even if your not stun/backstabbing. The Dodge bonus is so minimal, especially when we can 'activate' our 50% dodge at pretty much anytime.
That 1.5 extra seconds on Gouge can save your life in a pvp fight if you get jumped by 2 guys.
In PvE when I get jumped by 2 for whatever reason, just stab one in the face to stop it from beating on you. At gives you a moment to clean up the original. :)

[Marbh]

Gouge is great in pvp for freezing runners higher lvl than you so that the rest of the folks can get em. Had a 30 paladin run from me (24) and warrior friend (23). Hit speed to get ahead, gouged them to stop them running, then warrior and I proceeded to show that the lvl diff aint that much (plus the paladin panicked or was new to pvp). Also good if fighting warlocks or hunters so you can deal with one part of their team at a time.

[Gnmish Gearbinder]

Gouge, like Kick, interrupts spellcasting as well.

I'm going mainly Assassination/Subtlety myself but prob going to end up with Improved Gouge, Improved Kick and Improved Sprint.

[Bender]

I am going mace rogue also, going to be mainly solo/pvp type stuff and I am thinking of this build. If someone has any better ideas inform me, this is by no means finalized.

Assassination Talents (21 points)

# Improved Eviscerate - 3/3 points
Increases the damage done by your Eviscerate ability by 15%.

# Malice - 5/5 points
Increases your critical strike chance by 5%.

# Remorseless Attacks - 2/5 points
After killing an opponent that yields experience, gives you a 16% increased critical strike chance on your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, or Ghostly Strike.

# Lethality - 5/5 points
Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Sinister Strike, Gouge, Backstab, Ambush, Ghostly Strike, or Hemorrhage ability by 30%.

# Vile Poisons - 5/5 points
Increases the damage dealt by your poisons by 15%.

# Cold Blood - 1/1 point
When activated, increases the critical strike chance of your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, or Eviscerate by 100%.



Combat Talents (25 points)

# Improved Sinister Strike - 2/2 points
Reduces the Energy cost of your Sinister Strike ability by 5 Energy.

# Improved Gouge - 3/3 points
Increases the effect duration of your Gouge ability by 1.5 seconds.

# Precision - 5/5 points
Increases your chance to hit with melee weapons by 5%.

# Improved Sprint - 3/3 points
Reduces the cooldown of your Sprint ability by 90 seconds.

# Improved Evasion - 2/2 points
Increases the effect duration of your Evasion ability by 4 seconds.

# Dual Wield Specialization - 5/5 points
Increases the damage done by your offhand weapon by 50%.

# Mace Specialization - 5/5 points
Gives you a 6% chance to stun your target for 3 seconds with a mace.



Subtlety Talents (5 points)

# Master of Deception - 5/5 points
Reduces the chance enemies have to detect you while in Stealth mode. More effective than Master of Deception (Rank 4)

[Jaesin]

My setup - I want to try and work in improved evisc in there somewhere, not sure where.

Gnome Macerogue :)


Combat Mastery
Improved Gouge Rank 3
Improved Sinister Strike Rank 2
Deflection Rank 5
Precision Rank 5
Riposte Rank 1
Improved Kick Rank 2
Dual Wield Specialization Rank 5
Mace Specialization Rank 5
Aggression Rank 3
Blade Flurry Rank 1

Combat Total: 32


Assassination Mastery

Malice Rank 5
Ruthlessness Rank 3
Improved Slice and Dice Rank 3
Relentless Strikes Rank 1
Improved Expose Armor Rank 2
Lethality Rank 5

Assassination Total: 19


Total Points Spent: 51

Level Required: 60


Alternative

Combat Mastery
Improved Gouge Rank 3
Improved Sinister Strike Rank 2
Deflection Rank 5
Precision Rank 5
Riposte Rank 1
Improved Sprint Rank 1
Improved Kick Rank 2
Dual Wield Specialization Rank 5
Mace Specialization Rank 5
Blade Flurry Rank 1
Aggression Rank 3
Adrenaline Rush Rank 1
Combat Total: 34
Assassination Mastery
Malice Rank 5
Ruthlessness Rank 3
Improved Slice and Dice Rank 3
Relentless Strikes Rank 1
Lethality Rank 5
Assassination Total: 17
Total
Total Points Spent: 51
Level Required: 60

[Caowyth]

Longer gouge also allows for bandaging in combat.

Gouge, and hit a mageweave bandage, and you're looking at 4-6 ticks of healing, at around 120 a tick.

[Marbh]

Oh yeah, gouge bandaging allowed me to survive many many fights where adds or elite had me.

[Janky Rogue]

I'd say go with Gouge.

In addition to giving you time to bandage, if you have improved gouge, you can regen a lot of your energy while the enemy is stunned for 5.5 seconds. So maybe a fight would go something like this for you:

SS, Gouge, wait 5.5 sec, S&D, SS, SS, wait a couple ticks, Gouge, wait for enough energy for Evis., Evis.

By that time, whatever you're fighting will have taken a pretty significant amount of damage. If it's your level it should be almsot dead. I know waiting during combat sucks, but when you're soloing or fighting players, I find it absolutely necessary.

I also play on a PVP server (Tichondrius) and plan on doing a mace build. I'm going to use daggers until I'm about level 50 or so. After that I'll rebuild with mace sepcialization. At lower levels, I don't really see the point of maces since you can't stun with them until you get to level 30 (at the very earliest).

I compared a mainhand mace (with 15.2 dps) to a mainhand dagger (with 12 DPS) and I did more damage using the dagger. This is almost entirely because of ambush and can also be attributed to the dagger being faster so I had more opportunities to proc poisons.

Except for the occasional huge crit, I don't see all that much difference in the damage output between BS + evis compared to SS + evis. at my level (26). If I wasn't at work I'd post the actual numbers I logged and calculated for this.

[Jaesin]

Gouge has saved me from pvp many a time now, very glad I took it...

running from 10+ levels above you helps when you get a 5.5 second head start... ;)