EQ2 Question

[Underdawg Darogue]

Hello all.

I played eq for 4 years as a rogue and then moved to WoW when EQ began to get just to repetative for me and the inability of the class to solo could no longer be taken. I have loved WoW so far and am currently a level 60 Orc rogue but the server instability is really starting to get on my nerves and has be looking for greener pastures. I have a couple questions is anyone could feel up to a fast answer. Thanks in advance.

In EQ2 can the various rogue classes solo effectively? I know EQ2 is like EQ in that it is largly group based but you cant always find a group and solo ability is thusly important to me.

In EQ2 who is the top in the DPS scale (including all archtypes). I partially loved the rogue class for the untouchable DPS and wouldnt be against trying another class if their dps was much higher. I also played a Anquish level Necromancer in EQ and loved the raw potential DPS and power and soloabilitiy of that class as well. Please give me any feedback on if their is a better class to pick if I am looking for max DPS and/or effective solo ability.

Thanks again.

[Lashiec]

yes you can solo, though the exp gained will not even remotely approach the potential in a group.

as far as the DPS, wizards are probably number one followed closely by assassins, but finding reliable parsings to back this up isnt so easy.

as far as what class to pick, you have some time to get a feel for the game mechanics before you make the final decision, but for pure dps its going to be mage/scout.

on an aside though, if server instability in wow is your only reason to want to play eq2, it might not be the game for you. To accomplish most anything you need a group, logging on for a few hours here and there trying to complete a quest seems like it would be very frustrating. If you play, and want anything out of it - expect to spend eqlive type hours at it

[Underdawg Darogue]

Ug one of the reasons I left EQ was just the amount of time it sucked out of my day. Having to commit to no less then 3+ hours to get anything at all done. WoW doesn't have that problem. Thanks. I am gonna try the current free trial of EQ2 but it doesn't sound like I will like it all that much.

[injijo]

Check out City of Heroes. No server issues, many classes can solo very effectively, and if you only have 3 hours here and there you can still get a lot accomplished.

[bahamut1]

WoW is a kiddy game. Comparing them is like comparing poker with go fish. EQ2 is decades ahead. Stay with the kiddy games till you can handle a real game...

[Underdawg Darogue]

bahamut other then the size of the raids and groups you can have there is not real difference between WoW and EQ or EQ2. I played EQ2 in beta and have been playing the trial. i also played EQ for 5 years until Anguish. I can tell you there is nothing about WoW that would classify it as a "kiddy" game. One wonders if you have ever even played it, how high you managed to get, and why you feel the need to insult others. Handling the game is not the issue. And how "adult" is it to spend all your time playing a game away from the family, school, friends, and your real life? If you ask me that is the only real difference between WoW and EQ. the amount of time it takes from you.

[Itzena]

If you ask me that is the only real difference between WoW and EQ. the amount of time it takes from you.
Well that, and the fact that Blizzard in't selling in-game items for cash.

[Yalum]

Frankly, I wish EQ2 made me group more often. In EQ1 I stopped soloing at like level 4, when I got tired of being slaughtered by those damn pumas in Steamfont, but EQ2 I can solo pretty much the whole of the outdoors (most named and dungeons are grouped content), and I seem to have no shortage of quests asking me to do just that. I've always been a sucker for quests.

Although there was one solo instanced zone/event that was absolutely fanatastic, and barreling through with a group, rather the sneaking through and picking off mobs rogue style, wouldn't have been nearly as fun. I hope there are more like that as I level up.

[Slyy Daugg]

WoW is a kiddy game. Comparing them is like comparing poker with go fish. EQ2 is decades ahead. Stay with the kiddy games till you can handle a real game...

Translation:

"I am not too happy with EQ2, but I am spending 16+ bucks a month to play it, and I'll be damned if anyone is going to tell me there's a more enjoyable MMO out there I could be paying for. In fact, my official stance is that EQ2 ROCKS, and everything else SUCKS, and I'ma get vocal about it. Hooya!"

SD

Formerly "Hydenseke" - #1 carpenter of Crushbone server, EQ2
Presently "Hydenseke" - Combat-specced, Mace-wielding Gnome Rogue of Firetree server, climbing the PvP ladder to pure pwnage.

[bahamut1]

I'm sorry if I offend.

WoW is fun, and it is a good game. It reminds me of EQ when it first came out, and is more of a DAOC or a Shadowbane than an EQ. As far as being "so much alike" to EQ2, close but no cigar. In fact, as you get higher levels in each game, they become more and more un-alike as you go. WoW is 0-60 in 10 days, and then what... Start another character... Go grief some lower levels... Go kill the dozen or so high level encounters... All the hype and the pretty colors are great till you are actually looking for substance.

I realize they are new to the mmorpg world, and they'll learn, just like Sony did, and someday, i'm sure it will be a great game. They should make enough money off this until everyone and their grandma is 60th in a couple months to be able to fix it and make a great game out of it. Blizzard is really good about making good games and making them better, and using the Warcraft universe is pure genious. Everyone that plays video games much at all knows Warcraft.

Yes, you can solo in EQ2. YOU ARE NOT going to get the "coolest stuff" or the "most powerful" character (which, btw, is not important anyways, everyone can contribute). You can do just fine, and cover most of the game and never group with anyone. But then, why play a mmorpg if you never group? That's just stupid. I do realize there are times when you are not going to be on long and/or cannot find a group, then just go out and kill something or craft, you don't always have to group.

Here's the red flag of his post:

"In EQ2 who is the top in the DPS scale (including all archtypes)."

Who cares. Play what you want. You can be any race and play a wide range of classes. Play what is fun. Typically Wizards and Rogues are the high DPS classes of most games. If you want to be the "baddest dude" in the game, forget it. There are hundreds of other "baddest dudes" in the game.

The time spent in a game is completely dependent on the time YOU spend in the game. There's long quests, short quests, medium quests, and even long quests with pit stops. :D If you "just HAVE to hear that DING everytime you play, then YOU have the problem, not the game." This game has to cater to hardcore players as well as the casual, which EQ2 does exceptionally well. WoW is just beginning to realize they might have a lot of people maxing out all their characters and getting bored VERY quickly. I hope all the pretty colors can keep a lot of the "kiddies" around.

[Brelkor]

If you are not so concerned about being uber and rushing to the high levels as fast as you can, theres lots to do solo, including a nice crafting system. However it is a multiplayer game and the rewards for grouping are pretty nice. Raids are cool as they built in the idea into the system.

[injijo]

Well that, and the fact that Blizzard in't selling in-game items for cash.

That implies that EQ is selling in game items for cash, they aren't.
Quote from John Smedly:
We are NOT in the business of selling virtual goods ourselves.


Sony is facilitating the selling of the virtual goods, but they themselves are not selling them.

[Deser]

Bahamut - I have never played EQ2. I played EQ1 on and off for many years and I loved it. Now I play WoW.

You seem to think WoW is a "kiddie" game cause you can level quickly. Well i have been playing since January and i just ding'ed 40 a few days ago. Sure if you spend 10 hours a day playing youre gonna get to the end real fast...but thats true with any game - mmo or not. Do things other than level and that trip to 60 take a WHOLE lot longer. Explore the world, get your crafting skills up, try and get as many recipes for your craft(s) that you can, max out all your weapon skills, do some PvP. All these things are there so you have something to do other than level. It is easy to level, especially compared to EQ, but if you played EQ for 20 hours a day it'd be a quick ride to 60 (or 70 as is the case now).

You also talk of substance. Again, lets compare it to EQ. In fact, lets breakdown the name EVER = Always, continuously QUEST - QUEST dammit. My experience in EQ was that the quest portion of the game was sorely lacking. Sure there were some quests but I don't really feel that segment of the game lived up to its name.

Now take WoW. Quests are a HUGE portion of the game. I would definitely label the millions of quest (ok maybe not millions...) as substance. And as far as high end content goes... You have Battlegrounds coming soon and you can bet that there will be plenty more high-end raid content coming soon. As I have said many times, when EQ first started there was no where near the same amount of raid content as there is now. Those things will come with time. If you were looking for EQ at 5+ years type content from a game less than a year old I feel thats an unfair expectation to put on Blizzard, or any company really.

You also tell the OP that his question about higher DPS classes is a problem. You then tell him to play what he wants to play. Well it seems pretty obvious that what he wants to play is a high DPS class. Where is the problem in that. He also didn't say I want to solo so I can ding every time I log in. He said he wants solo-ability for when he isn't able to cop a group.

The main reason I love WoW is that I don't have to devote the time I devoted to EQ. I'm 24. Im a stock broker in training. I leave my house at 630am and dont get home until 7pm. Then I have family commitments, responsibilities, have to study for my series 7 exam, have to have some social time. So I can't spend 4 hours at a time, on a regular basis playing a video game (which I am not happy about but thats how life goes). Hell, most of the time I don't have an hour to devote to video games.

[Lashiec]

eq2 is entirely built around the quests. there is some grinding for exp's sake - but in general , you kill mobs to complete some quest.

My bard by level 31 had completed roughly 225 of em, while throwing away a good number of others due to a full journal (50 simultaneous quests vs 20 for wow)

I'd say WoW comes off with a feel that is geared towards a younger audience, NPC's who say "keep it real"? theres enough of that nonsense in real life. Also the artwork in the game, while it looks good and "fits" together very nicely, it really does seem cartoonish.

I've been playing WoW for a few weeks now, mainly experimenting with different races and classes. since i'm such low level i cant really comment on the game too much, but so far the only reason i keep logging in (albeit occasionally) is the benefit of the doubt, so far it hasnt been much fun. However i will say eq2 grabbed my attention immediately, the NPC's are definitely more fleshed out, the crafting system was more than just clicking combine (Or in wow, clicking once.)

[bahamut1]

Very good post, thank you for your comments. I actually agree with all of it. We're not comparing WoW to EQ1 in this thread, but for the comparison, I find no argument in what you say.

I think WoW is a "kiddie" game at this time because of a number of things, not just the fast leveling. Fast leveling, exclamation points, atmosphere, soso pvp, and the cartoony graphics are some of the reasons. I really don't have time to explain each one, but it isn't just one thing that makes it a "kiddie" game. Also, that fact is not entirely bad. I did post that WoW is a good game, well worth playing, and will someday be one of the best, I have no doubt.

We weren't comparing to EQ, so I'll agree that WoW is MUCH better than EQ was in its first year. More stable, more content, more fun, but eq was 5 years ago, and WoW is now. In fact, in a lot of ways, WoW is better than EQ even now except for content. WoW does have good quests, and raiding, and gameplay, I have no argument at all there. Thankfully, they had 5 years of EQ to find out what worked and what didn't work. What quests were fun, and which were not. They didn't, however, learn that exclamation points don't make sense and that quest items, that are fought for during camps, off of rare boss mobs, and mob stealing can REALLY frustrate someone trying to complete that 15 hour quest they have been waiting for one item. At least SOE learned that if there is any hope of comeraderie between high and low level players, they better make the quest items auto instead of drop, or YOU WILL have problems, that's just the nature of the game.

Asking about a high DPS character isn't a problem, but it gives a glimpse into what is important to him/her. Everyone that plays mmorpg's much knows that Wizards and Rogues are usually the high DPS characters, and he said that he had been playing for a while, not a "noob". There's nothing wrong with playing high DPS, in fact, we need them. A lot of lfg will usually say, "Need a tank/cleric/highDPS" the most. I play a rogue, and I love the sneak/backstab/ambush aspects because it's a lot of fun. Don't ask because you want to be Mr. Ikillthemfasterthanyou, that's not the basis of the game, it's a mmorpg for goodness sakes. :D

I have a lot of friends in WoW for the same reason you play WoW. It's fun, and you don't have to commit a lot of time to doing anything in the game. I have casual player friends, and I fully respect their decision to play a game that caters to their needs the best.

To say that EQ2, you have to commit several hours at a time to get anywhere is ludicrous. I agree it's not as fast as WoW, but that's the beauty of it. I can do anything I want and still make headway, but if you think you have to hear the "ding" to think you've done anything then EQ2 is definitely not for you. The same player will probably be about halfway as far in EQ2 than in WoW, but my 20th level character in EQ2 has done more different things than your 40th level character. I've already been on raids, found legendary and fabled objects, made powerful items for the first time, been on at least 4 different complicated quests that required the best of me and my character. I actually feel like I've accomplished something and made my character better in the direction I see fit. In WoW, my 1st level paly became a 45th level paly almost overnight, and I didn't feel like I accomplished anything, comparatively. Sure, I got levels, more powerful, some cool items, helped some people, NPC's and PC's, and even took down some bosses, but what direction, what personality, what nuances make my character MY CHARACTER. It's hard to explain, but you've played enough to get my meaning, i hope. :) This post is getting too long to explain it further.

In a nutshell, WoW is a good game, and someday will become a great game. They'll fix the problems, add content, and even change up a few things to keep the game interesting for everyone involved. However, for a 2005 game, it is behind. There are 4 games out before WoW and already ahead of WoW in technology and gameplay. In 2 years, when they do have the makings of a great game, it'll be outdated. For those that don't have the money, or the equipment, or the time, that'll be fine, but technology is moving fast, and I only hope they're not going to be left in the dust.

[Lashiec]

bahamut1: To say that EQ2, you have to commit several hours at a time to get anywhere is ludicrous.

i guess its subjective, but my experience was when undertaking an involved quest (heritage or betrayal for example) short >1 sessions just did not seem to cut it.

you implied that your character was level 20, in another 10 levels come back and say eq2 isnt a time sink :) crawling though nektropos for example takes forever - which is fine since the zone itself is quite fun, reminiscent of a LDON in a way. but later on, unless you're a healer, or have a guild/group of friends to regularly hunt with - you'll spend the first 20 minutes (conservative estimate.) of your session lfg (perhaps to kill some ^^ mob to finish off a quest?) factor in some travel time, and you're looking at a relatively lengthy session to even make logging on worthwhile.

[Deser]

I'd say WoW comes off with a feel that is geared towards a younger audience, NPC's who say "keep it real"? theres enough of that nonsense in real life.

People who live in different areas speak differently and use very different phrases. I say keep it real. Just cause you don't doesnt make it nonsense.

[Lashiec]

People who live in different areas speak differently and use very different phrases. I say keep it real. Just cause you don't doesnt make it nonsense.
con·text Audio pronunciation of "context" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kntkst)
n.
1. The part of a text or statement that surrounds a particular word or passage and determines its meaning.
2. The circumstances in which an event occurs; a setting.



:banghead

[Koru]

So does that mean the anime Legend of the Overfiend (sorry, no way I can spell the Japanese name) a kiddie movie since it's a cartoon? :p If you want to judge a game by it's graphics I'd say EQ2's was more of a turn off for me, it felt colorless, lifeless and uninteresting.

As for gameplay, I found both to be around equally challenging in terms of character advancement, gameplay, questing, group tactics and so on. Neither requires massive amounts of the awesome personal skills some MMOG players often seem to think make them uber, if you want a real skillbased game I suggest RL sports involving balls or distinct lack of motorized vehicles where there's no high end gear that's gonna save yer arse. I've played harder games and I've played easier games than both WoW and EQ2 - and honestly I'd rank the two games pretty close together in terms of difficulty.

Incidentally one of the reason I gave up on EQ2 was that I got no sense of progression from the quests. There were far too many and far too bland areas for me to feel any sort of connection. The switch to WoW was so easy because of that. And while the only quest I remember from EQ2 really was one of the rogue quests I'll never forget that look on my face when I realized that frigging hermit in WoW had taken me for a ride. Or Windsor's vindicating walk through SW and then watching Bolvar kick dragonic ass - and I admit, I enjoyed watching lower levels who thought it would be safe to enter that room to watch the fight die in less than a second but hey I did warn them.

[Elsebet]

Personally I was upset by Blizzard's patching of completing dungeon quests in raids. For months people completed the quests in raids and went on to fight Onyxia. Then suddenly all those who didn't rush to 60 and complete those quests now have to 5-man the quests. Just for reference, I have a 46 Priest on a PvP server and a 60 Priest on a RP server, both Horde.

LBRS for example, is a dungeon you now have to 5-man to get access to Onyxia. It's challenging, but moreso it's just long and tedious. We did it twice with an extremely skilled and balanced group both times and still never got the documents for Warlord's Command. The documents spawn randomly at various bosses, so once 1 person loots it they can spawn at two other places. Most times you have to clear respawns (that you've already killed once) to check the other places. That's where our groups break up because at that point it's been hours of the same tedious pulls and kills. To me that just seems more like work than fun and I already put in 8+ hours a day doing that. :)

I'm level 16 in EQ2 (Dwarf Cleric on Oasis, Elsebet) with 363 quests under my belt, and for now it's a pretty enjoyable game. It will be a way to pass the time until the next Elder Scrolls game comes out. :)

[Emrys]

WoW is 0-60 in 10 days, and then what... Start another character... Go grief some lower levels...

This is all I need to read to know what kind of player you are.

And FWIW, I just hit 60 a month or so ago, and I started playing on release.

Stop talking. Now.

[bahamut1]

Emrys:

Release November. A month ago you hit 60, which is 5 months. You did 60 levels in 5 months.

THANK YOU for making my point for me. I don't have to say anything, you did it for me. Child's play...

[smygur]

Predators are very good dps and have good solo capability. (if not best)

EQ2 has like DAoC a "in combat mode" and "out of combat mode" so even if you have 5% hp and no power left it will be fast to recover. Monsters are also divided into normal, heroic and epic. A normal white con can any class solo. An heroic is for a group and epic is for a raid.

Most quests are very rewarding (xp and items) so you really don't wanna kill anything without having a quest for it.

Warlock and wizard are probably the highest dps with ranger and assassin second.

[Elsebet]

Both EQ2 and WoW have many quests, however I've found WoW's to be a little more linear due to the very nature you see the exclamation points over the NPC's head when they have a quest for you. Most everyone you meet in WoW around your level will have pretty much the same series of quests. In EQ2 currently there is no indication other than sometimes the NPC will wave you over or have dialog that hints at a task they need done. Other times there is no indication at all and by pure luck you hail an NPC and they give you a quest. All of that is dependent on how much you read walkthroughs/guides, of course.

Also, EQ2 has many items that spawn quests when picked up, and there are world items (chests, boxes, etc) that will sometimes give a quest when inspected. There are also collection quests (which do not clutter your inventory OR main quest log when added), access quests, heritage quests, guild writs, lore and legend quests, etc. WoW generally has Elite, normal and Raid quests, all of which can be collect/kill/deliver style.

EQ2 keeps a history and count of quests you've completed, to my knowledge WoW does not have that capability although their quest log is cleaner. It's far easier to see at-a-glance if you've completed a quest in WoW compared to EQ2.

If you can't understand an npc's language, they will not give you a quest in EQ2. I didn't pick up on that until level 20 or so. You can buy primers in the main city (about 12 silver each) which teach the basics of all languages, and it fixes that little problem. Now to go back and do all the quests I missed...

Which is better? There is no answer. WoW's method is for convenience, EQ2's is setup for exploration in my opinion. I like to be surprised, but I also don't like to miss anything, so I'm torn. Both systems have merit and drawbacks.

[sigswat]

For the OP and other stuff I glanced over:

From IGN's website and the Ask SoE #37. Here is the official DPS Pyramid on where things are supposed to end up.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Steve "Moorgard" Danuser: Without giving the precise DPS numbers we intend each class to have, I can list how the classes will relate to one another in damage output. There are basically five groupings that classes fall into, from highest amount of damage output to the lowest.

First group:
Wizard/Warlock
Assassin/Ranger

Second group:
Conjurer/Necromancer (using damage pet)
Brigand/Swashbuckler

Third group:
Coercer/Illusionist, Conjurer/Necromancer (using tank pet)
Troubador/Dirge
Bruiser/Monk

Fourth group:
Berserker/Shadowknight
Paladin/Guardian

Fifth group:
Fury/Warden
Defiler/Mystic
Inquisitor/Templar

Keep in mind that these aren't absolutes. A Guardian who concentrates on damage output and upgrades his or her offensive abilities could surpass a Berserker who focuses on defensive capabilities. These are simply the general guidelines we're following where, all things being equal, the classes will be organized.

The thing with class balance, though, is that all things are *never* equal. So much of the damage output of a class depends on how that class is played that it simply isn't possible for anyone to guarantee that a given class will always perform at a certain level under every circumstance. However, the above list should at least give players an idea of the direction our numbers will be taking.


Stations Exchange is for EQ2 and John Smedley is President of SoE, Station Exchange is run by SoE therefore John Smedley may not be in the business of selling virtual goods himself, but they are providing the virtual goods and taking their cut from those who are doing the selling. Bottom-line is they are fully condoning virtual game item/coin sales and whether they are taking the money for the item or not is of little consequence.

I just cancelled my EQ2 account, I have a 50 illusionist / 50 jeweler and I am so relieved to have finally cancelled it because I really do not like SoE and EQ2. What kept my playing was my guild and my equity in the game. But I finally got the strength to give it up.