Class Issues Update 6/3/05

[Haites Nocturnal]

Rogue

BUG FIXED - Assassins Feint (DoN discipline) does not appear to be functioning correctly. Functioning correctly now.

1) Add more throwing items for rogues to use. (currently being evaluated) - Most likely this will be considered as part of the class re-envisioning

- Lack of itemisation is preventing good use of the Deadly Aim discipline we received with OoW.
- Throwing items must be summoned in order to be practical, along the lines of Ton Po's Mystical Pouch from Time.

2) Enhance the Nerves of Steel AA so that it functions against single target spells as well (as is implied by the current description) or, failing that, refund the AA. (currently being evaluated)

- This ability is also bugged. Hide is incorrectly being broken by AE spells that have been resisted and the description is wrong.

3) Improved critical hit AAs such as Veterans Wrath should apply to backstab. (currently being evaluated)

4) Minimum bs damage should scale with weapon / Scale Chaotic Stab with weapon damage. (currently being evaluated) - Most likely this will be considered as part of the class re-envisioning

5) Slightly increase the availability of tradable and single group weapons that allow more casual, unguilded, and/or non raiding rogues to stay relatively viable. (currently being evaluated)

6) Assassin’s Strike is still not effective enough for the endurance cost. The endurance cost should be reduced to make it more in line with similar abilities of other classes. (currently being evaluated)

7) Implement a way for rogues to spot see-SoS mobs more easily; and a way for rogues to check whether a mob sees through regular invisibility
- Mobs which do not see through Shroud of Stealth, but which see through invisibility, should give a message akin to "You suspect this being can see you" but which reads "Your stealth prevents this mob from seeing you"
- Clicking and conning every mob sometimes isn't practical, especially in transit zones (on the way to a raid etc. where it is ridiculous to expect a rogue to con every mob); and mobs which see through Shroud of Stealth tend to be fairly unpredictable. It would be better to have some kind of visible marker so that mobs which see SoS can be more quickly identified and avoided, rather than just trained to the zoneline. (Revised)(currently being evaluated) - Most likely this will be considered as part of the class re-envisioning

8) Make poisons easier to use and less prohibitive in terms of time investment. Some suggestions of how to achieve this are: (currently being evaluated) - Most likely this will be considered as part of the class re-envisioning

- Implement some form of endless poison or poison conservation AA.
- Increase the drop rate of poison ingredients or make them purchaseable at a reasonable cost.
- Increase the yield of poisons per combine.
- Dramatically increase the yield of poisons per combine, making the poisons yielded no rent.
- Make old world poisons stackable.

9) Add more +backstab damage items at all levels of play. (currently being evaluated)

10) Re-evaluate the focus effects on rogue armour sets from Qvic onwards. (currently being evaluated)

- The armour sets appear to have been copy/pasted a lot rather than individually tailored for each class. This does not work well for rogues because our desires are so specialised.
- Many rogues are unhappy with the tier2 OoW breastplate from Anguish. See this discussion thread: http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=roguebalance&message.id=3011

BUGS:

- Nerves of Steel (AA) is not functioning correctly (see above)
- Sneak / Hide across zones appears to be bugged and fail sometimes.

Kytherea ~~wielding a giant hammer & a War Hamster~~

"I'm late, I'm late...."

_________________________________________

Does this ever end? God I hope Sincro can get something good out of the Summit or all hope is lost for this pathetic excuse for a list.

Who wants to take bets that we will be scouting see invis mobs soon, and we won't see any DPS upgrades any time soon? Hmm. Replacing one crap item with another, wtg.

/sigh :hmph

Edit: *gasp* Fixed Format to make it easier to read. Inserted Color back into "Dev" comments.

[Fyredragn]

When you con an NPC that can see through invis, but that can't see you because you are hidden by Shroud of Stealth, you will now get a message telling you that "Your Shroud of Stealth keeps you hidden from watchful eyes."

This is on test currently.

Rashere

From here (http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=roguebalance&message.id=3294)

[likenew]

dot dot dot

[Jazya]

i hope it's not the same color... that'd make spotting see-SoS mobs even harder.

[decius1]

The reason that will have got changed so fast is that it's an incredibly simple change to make. It has no balance issues, the logic check is already in, I would guess pretty much all you have to do is add the line of text.

It's not going to have affected any dps issues. You're reading too much into it :)

Shackleton

P.S. Am now on route to summit so I can't log into test to check it out. If someone with a test copy wanted to log into test and check that it works all right, that would be very handy.

[Haites Nocturnal]

When you con an NPC that can see through invis, but that can't see you because you are hidden by Shroud of Stealth, you will now get a message telling you that "Your Shroud of Stealth keeps you hidden from watchful eyes."

This is on test currently.

Rashere

From here (http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=roguebalance&message.id=3294)


Oh. My. God. :angry

[Tearry]

Too me its a good thing.

[Castina Solomnus]

No arguements here, will be useful for 2 boxing, and I can always pretend I'm bugged if a group wants me to check every single mob.

[Jwoey]

I'd like to be able to set it to a different color so I dont confuse it w/ See-SoS message.. but Im definitely for it.

[Rarrob]

Would you people please stop complaining? You asked for the ability to distinguish if the mobs also saw through normal invisibility. You got that. Now you want to complain if it's the same damn color? READ.

When the developers also implement #4 on that list because you voted on it and it made it in, don't look to the end-game rogues and whine even more. You have been warned.

[Suzuka]

I'd like to be able to set it to a different color so I dont confuse it w/ See-SoS message.. but Im definitely for it.

Sos message is in different color anyway and a separate message.

[decius1]

Apologies for any mispellings have been force fed cocktails.

Alternate colou ressential feedback on TEST stuff req'd. No speculation if itcanbeavoided, just analysis of actual test server working.

Sorry again for wierd message but have met old friend from school in new york after long flight so totally incapable of cohereant posts :)

Sackleon

[KovaaK]

No clue what he just said... Looking forward to a clarification tomorrow :).

[Grave]

Er, I think he's saying he needs feedback on the see-invis thing on Test. Whether or not we like the color of the text, etc.

Bottoms up, Shackleton!

[Jazya]

Have it use the system messages label? I think default is yellow(and customizeable) where default 'see-sos' message is white.

[Under]

Who gives a **** about what colour any message is? Are all the casual rogues upset with their daggers or with colours? Are the poisons working? That 25AA pile of screwed/bugged/misrepresented skill work yet? Berserker still outdpsing me? Do I still tank worse than leather classes? And of course, most importantly, where is my lavastorm goblin illusion mask?

Don't know why anybody would expect me to head straight to the test server to do some work for a stranger and pay my wages outta me own pocket. I ascribe it to Shack being drunk and his new found buddy's bad influence...

edit either fixed a typo or helped the filter - LT

[Axian-OoP]

With all that is wrong with our class... WHY do they choose THIS to do??
SO sad... so very very sad...
:frown

[Patofnaud]

I personally don't mind adding this tidbit. I run point for groups heading to MPG/RSS every now and then and it does help knowing what sees before I drag the group into an ambush.

I don't mind adding this in as long as it does not distract from the real issues.

[shmoozneak]

I personally don't mind adding this tidbit. I run point for groups heading to MPG/RSS every now and then and it does help knowing what sees before I drag the group into an ambush.

I don't mind adding this in as long as it does not distract from the real issues.

I have to agree with you, here. This is a nice little addition. It gives groups an additional reason to add a rogue to their group by adding significantly to the value of our scouting ability.

Yes, it would be nice for the message indicating a see-invis mob to be in a color that really makes it stand out (maybe a bright orange, for example), but just having this ability at all would be a beneficial thing for us. I see no downside to this small, easily implemented change.

Given that this change is already on the Test server I see no reason to think it will distract the developers from the "real issues." It'll be finished and live soon, so it won't really get in the way of the main changes rogues seek.

Last edited by shmoozneak on 17/14/23 13:87 am; edited 738 times in total ... stupid dwarf!

[decius1]

Sorry was very drunk kept missing the space bar :)

Internet access very sporadic atm cos of travelling.

It will not distract from other stuff. As I said, it was just a really simple change :)

[Castina Solomnus]

Honestly it doesn't really do a whole lot. It gives you, as a rogue, the ability to do what smart people already did with invis. Con mobs before you blind rush into them. It's not like it'll allow you to magically invis a group all the way across mpg or something. They probably added it because they spotted something on our top 10 that would take like 20 minutes to code in. Sure it'll be useful in select situations, but its not really going to change a whole lot.

[Suzuka]

It'll be nice in instances where people can't easily see/target some mobs in question, for example trash in Ascent, small mobs like spiders, bugs behind rocks, walls, even inside walls ;o .

[shmoozneak]

It'll be nice in instances where people can't easily see/target some mobs in question, for example trash in Ascent, small mobs like spiders, bugs behind rocks, walls, even inside walls ;o .

Precisely. It'll allow us to scout ahead for see-invis mobs that the other players wouldn't be able to see until after they were already in agro range. That may not be a game changing modification to our stealthy scouting abilities, but it does give us useful class-specific ability that we can call upon when the need arises.

:D

[Castina Solomnus]

Now if there was only someone to do that for see shroud mobs.

[Sammex]

That may not be a game changing modification to our stealthy scouting abilities, but it does give us useful class-specific ability that we can call upon when the need arises.

So before this change, all the lesser classes could do was wait for us to tell them "ok, I have the next mob targeted, assist me and check". Now (once this is live) we can check for them. I'm overwhelmingly underwhelmed. And my 'c' button is going to need a replacement.

[Tearry]

Its not meant to be overwhelming.. I think for once its nice that we ask for something small and quickly get it

[shmoozneak]

Its not meant to be overwhelming.. I think for once its nice that we ask for something small and quickly get it

Precisely.

The fact that it is a small improvement is not justification for acting as though it is not an improvement at all.

Last edited by shmoozneak on 17/14/23 13:87 am; edited 738 times in total ... stupid dwarf!

[skewerzjoo]

Its not meant to be overwhelming.. I think for once its nice that we ask for something small and quickly get it

woulda been nice though if it had been something meaningful...like throwing item itemization, or fixing nerves...or fixing the anguish bp...

I'm STILL not gonna scout for the raid...if they are too lazy to con a mob, they had better not expect me to...usually dragging someone in the back anyway...

[Tearry]

Dont think we will get anything meaningful till next expansion.. Ie we have to pay for it.

[Lanthirion]

I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for the next expansion to bring rogue improvements. There have been too many expansions already now where I hoped to get some new cool toy for my rogue to play with and ended up with nothing. We have essentially not changed since Kunark. What makes anyone think they will actually change that pattern now? Sorry if this sounds like sour grapes, but personally I'm just a bit fed up with the pattern that SoE has displayed of constantly ignoring rogues.

[Tearry]

We havent changed much since kunark cause well most of us havent wanted to. We want Top dps spot. We havent really asked for anything new in along time < not that i have seen>.