Zato
03-22-00, 02:09 PM
Guide to Pulling in Dungeons
Submitted by ShadowCross with comments added from Kirska, Shariin, Beldar, Tilin, Ehrynn, Iain, Kayla, Zato and Jordinn
Edited by Zato
1. BEFORE PULLING THE FIRST TIME
a.) Learn the area
b.) Learn the mobs
c.) Learn the spawns
d.) Know your group
2. BEFORE THE PULL
a.) Prepare yourself
b.) Prepare the group
c.) On assisting
3. THE PULL
a.) Look for possible targets
b.) Inform group
c.) Pull
d.) Special notes on pulling caster mobs
e.) What to do in case of a bad pull
1. BEFORE PULLING THE FIRST TIME
a.) Learn the area
Get yourself some maps (IMHO the best maps can be found here: http://www.nx.sakura.ne.jp/~chizuya/index2e.html), study them and compare them to the actual dungeon by walking through the dungeon using hide&sneak. Maps are nice, but nothing can make up for your 1st-hand knowledge of each turn and twist of a dungeon. You have to know the dungeon. During the pull, you don’t have the time to look at the map figuring out the way back to the camp of your group. Especially in high-level dungeons like Lower Guk every second can be critical. So take your time, and take a good luck at the dungeon. It can save you when running from trains, and it often allows you to join groups more easily, as they don’t have to send someone to get you from zone if you know the way yourself. Also find and learn any trapdoors and illusionary walls the dungeon may have.
This is also a good way to do the next thing, that is...
b.) Learn the mobs
The most important thing. There are several things you ought to know about the mobs you pull:
Level: To get the basic info on the mob use /con or "c"-key or get the knowledge from other players. This should be easy.
How hard they hit: /con-ing them is nice, but doesn’t always give correct answers, e.g. "bloodthirsty ghouls" and named spawns hit MUCH harder than their /con would make you believe they do, another example for this is Dvinn in Crushbone.
Caster or non-caster: Usually you can tell this from their name, but not always; also many mobs can "cast" or use spell-like abilities even when they are fighters. Best example are the undead froglok ghouls in Lower Guk: they can root you, which can be lethal if you are too far from your group to help you or to heal you. In such cases, be quick to give your group a tell where you are so that they can come to your help (Try to be VERY exact, no time for long speeches when a kor wizzy is nuking you). Also, high magic resistance is essential [see 2a. Prepare yourself].
Pet or no pet: this being very important, for a stuck pet can cause awful trains, so you should know whether a mob has a pet or not. ("Uh, shouldn’t he have a pet?"- Famous last words).
Pathing: What way will the mobs take to follow me? Is it possible that he will aggro other mobs on that way, too? Also, what way will he use to run away?
Aggro range: How close can I get to the mob before he will aggro on me? How long can I stay near him till he will attack me? Sometimes you can pass mobs that /con threatenly, but I wouldn’t bet on it. The fact if he aggros on you at all is also important. Some mobs won’t aggro on you at all, once they are "green" enough. Others will always attack you, even when you are lev 50 (skeletons are a nice example for this, even at lev 40 I am still attacked by them)
Aggro behavior: Will he stay aggro’d on me, even when I run past other players? There are a lot of mobs that will attack the nearest player, not necessary the one that originally attacked it (e.g. skeletons, reanimated hand, vampiric bats, gargoyles(?), and others). These can be very hard, if not impossible to pull past other groups. And other groups normally won’t be very happy if you train them with mobs.
c.) Learn the spawns
The small difference between success and failure. Know where the mobs spawn, how many spawn, how often they spawn and what mobs spawn at a given point. This enables you to check the spawn points efficiently and fast, while others just run around and hope to find a mob. You should also know what mobs could possibly spawn between the place where you pull from and the point where your group is camping.
d.) Know your group
Also a very important point. Knowing what each character in your group can do is essential, too. Having healers allows you to pull harder mobs. Having crowd-control allows you to pull multiple targets. Having mana-makers and healers also allows you to pull faster, so less break between the pulls. Know who will be the main tank. All should assist the main tank, so that enchanters, bards and necros can mez/charm surplus mobs.
2. BEFORE THE PULL
a.) Prepare yourself
Before pulling, check your buffs. You should have all the buffs your party can provide. Most useful are the following: HP, AC buffs, resistances (magic, fire, cold), STR/DEX Buffs, STA buffs (for the long runs&jumps to be faster) and maybe even symbols, runes and the like.
SoW is essential when fighting in "outdoor" dungeons like Cazic-Thule, Blackburrow, Crushbone, Mistmoore and Unrest, but can't be cast in "indoor" dungeons like Upper/Lower Guk, Splitpaw, Sol A/B, Permafrost, or Kedge Keep. If you can have it cast on you while still outside the indoor dungeons, by all means do so! Also check your health. You should be full health, for it is very likely that you will loose 1-2 bub of HP during the pull (at least that can happen fairly regulary in L Guk)
b.) Prepare the group
Also, before pulling check the situation of your group. Ask for a mana report. Let the others tell you if they are ready. Wait for their "okay". Nothing is more annoying than a puller that says "Pulling!", runs off and comes back with 4 red mobs to hear the cleric say "LOM" and the enchanter "OOM". In groups lev 30+ the pace you pull at it usually dictated by the mana of your casters (and sadly, by the number of mobs availible).
c.) On assisting
This is one, if not THE most important command to use in group fighting. There are several ways to use this:
1.) type /assist while having a group member targeted will switch your target to same target your group member has. This is the normal way to use /assist in fights with several mobs.
2.) type /assist while having a mob targeted will switch your target to the player that mob is attacking, usefull for healers to see who is smashed to pieces and needs a heal.
3.) type /assist xxxxx, where xxxxx is the name of a player. This will result with you having the same target as that player, no matter what you had targeted before. This is the best option if you have a designated person to be assisted in all fights. Normally I have a hotkey with the command /assist on my combat page of hotkeys.
MASTERING ASSISTING IS (IMHO) THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF SUCCESSFUL FIGHTING IN MULTI-MOB-ENVIRONMENTS! Sorry for the shout, but had to emphasise my point. :)
3. THE PULL
a.) Look for possible targets
After you have prepared yourself and your group for the pull, go and look for possible targets. Use your (hopefully) superior knowledge of the area, the mobs and the pathing of the mobs to be more succesful than other pullers.
b.) Inform group
Once you have found one or multiple targets, you should inform your group of the pull. This can be a simple "INC!" or a multi-line hotkey or any other sentence that clearly indicates that mobs are incoming. If in doubt if your group can the the mobs you are likely to pull, just ask them: "Uh, ready for 2 blue wans and 1 yellow zol?". If you succeed at informing your group exactly what you are going to pull and are right about it, it usually earns you a lot of respect in the group.
c.) Pull
Once your group is informed, pull the mobs using one of these methods:
- use a bow, or even throwing weapons
- run past them, thus aggo’ing them
- run up to them, and attack them
Using a ranged attack is preferred, as you have a much greater chance of not pulling unwanted mobs. With one or several mobs aggo’ed on you, you should head back as fast as possible to your group. Feel free to use shortcuts like dropping from bridges, and also jump to get a little more distance between you and the mobs. If you manage/like you can also give your group another warning that mobs are "INC!!!". When pulling multiple mobs, make sure to target the most dangerous mob first, so that those who are /assist-ing will all converge on the proper target. The list of danger is in this order:
1.) Healers - #1 priority! Otherwise they will sit there and heal whatever you are fighting.
2.) Enchanters - When half your group gets charmed you are in some serious trouble.
3.) All other caster types (wizzies, mages, necros).
4.) Tanking mobs
5.) Caster pets
Also don't attack a green creature to start a pull, hitting a green will pull both the green and the blue, hitting the blue will not always pull the green.
d.) Special notes on pulling caster mobs
Prepare your group for a caster pull. Tell them to get ready to heal you the second you are in range. This is very important for pulling wizzy ghouls in L Guk, for example.
Another thing you may want to try (where possible) is to run past the group or around another corner near the group so that he cannot stop 20 feet from your group and start nuking you. By running past your group for another 20 feet, you force him to stay into range, following you and thus running right into your waiting group. Another way to "encourage" the mob to melee is to sit down, which will cause him to come and attack you, too. But be warned, you will take maximum melee damage if the mob hits you while sitting. If pulling multiple casters, have someone who can stun keep one of them busy until the group can focus on it.
e.) What to do in case of a bad pull
Lets label it knowing when you seriously messed up. You pull too many MoBs that are way to high for your level party to handle. What to do? Well you got some options:
Kill yourself: Let your party know to STAY put and not help you. Finda good place to recover your corpse and just let the MoBs kill you and at least your party is safe. And if you have a Cleric with Res in the party at least it won't take you too long to get your body back.
Take Your Pull to the Zone: Try and make it to the zone. Just remember to warn the zone you are coming *wink*. Save your party and yourself.
Bring the Pull to the Party but Warn them it may be Hopeless: Tell your evacers to be sure they got Evac Ready cause they might need it. You might kill everything and be ok, but then you may need to evac. If you don't have evac, be sure everyone knows they maybe running for the zone or gating.
Basically Keep an eye on your pull after you pulled it. Did you run past somthing on your way that will join your pull that wasn't there before? Did you run into a Huge train on the way back that might come with you? Etc.
Other Notes
Always have the highest level tank pull if possible. The higher the level difference between the puller and the target, the smaller the aggro radius of the puller.
The /assist command only works if the target has autoattack on. Make sure to turn it on while running back after pulling.
When pulling a mob if you just run past it to aggro it and you run past another group that is fighting, it WILL leave you and join in the other groups fight usually causing much anger...You have to make sure you damage the mob. Just throwing that dagger or shooting the arrow isnt enough if you want to keep the mob on you back to your group, you have to cause damage - the more the better. This applies to multiple mob pulls as well. If you just damage one and another was in aggro range and you pull past another group fighting... yes, you guessed it, the second (undamaged mob) will join the fight already in progress again causing much anger and shouting. Also another lesson learned the hard way (i.e. much anger and shouting) is if you pull past a group that is fighting and they cast an AE spell of anykind (my example was a warrior using painbringer) and the AE spell outdamages your initial pulling damage you WILL lose the mob to that other group. In the way overcrowded dungeons being considerate and using pulling etiquette can make or break your reputation. Just remember the person you snaked that pull from today might be in the group with the openning for you tomorrow.
Do you see a particularly dangerous pull? Coordinate with a nearby group to help and everyone can benefit. For example ask another group to break the GIBs in LGuk that were spawned (full spawn of 4). Each group kills two, and both groups are happy about it because it made pulling all told much nicer. Zato Thornblade the Dwarven Rogue
Tarew MarrEdited by Zato at: 5/4/00 8:09:19 am
Submitted by ShadowCross with comments added from Kirska, Shariin, Beldar, Tilin, Ehrynn, Iain, Kayla, Zato and Jordinn
Edited by Zato
1. BEFORE PULLING THE FIRST TIME
a.) Learn the area
b.) Learn the mobs
c.) Learn the spawns
d.) Know your group
2. BEFORE THE PULL
a.) Prepare yourself
b.) Prepare the group
c.) On assisting
3. THE PULL
a.) Look for possible targets
b.) Inform group
c.) Pull
d.) Special notes on pulling caster mobs
e.) What to do in case of a bad pull
1. BEFORE PULLING THE FIRST TIME
a.) Learn the area
Get yourself some maps (IMHO the best maps can be found here: http://www.nx.sakura.ne.jp/~chizuya/index2e.html), study them and compare them to the actual dungeon by walking through the dungeon using hide&sneak. Maps are nice, but nothing can make up for your 1st-hand knowledge of each turn and twist of a dungeon. You have to know the dungeon. During the pull, you don’t have the time to look at the map figuring out the way back to the camp of your group. Especially in high-level dungeons like Lower Guk every second can be critical. So take your time, and take a good luck at the dungeon. It can save you when running from trains, and it often allows you to join groups more easily, as they don’t have to send someone to get you from zone if you know the way yourself. Also find and learn any trapdoors and illusionary walls the dungeon may have.
This is also a good way to do the next thing, that is...
b.) Learn the mobs
The most important thing. There are several things you ought to know about the mobs you pull:
Level: To get the basic info on the mob use /con or "c"-key or get the knowledge from other players. This should be easy.
How hard they hit: /con-ing them is nice, but doesn’t always give correct answers, e.g. "bloodthirsty ghouls" and named spawns hit MUCH harder than their /con would make you believe they do, another example for this is Dvinn in Crushbone.
Caster or non-caster: Usually you can tell this from their name, but not always; also many mobs can "cast" or use spell-like abilities even when they are fighters. Best example are the undead froglok ghouls in Lower Guk: they can root you, which can be lethal if you are too far from your group to help you or to heal you. In such cases, be quick to give your group a tell where you are so that they can come to your help (Try to be VERY exact, no time for long speeches when a kor wizzy is nuking you). Also, high magic resistance is essential [see 2a. Prepare yourself].
Pet or no pet: this being very important, for a stuck pet can cause awful trains, so you should know whether a mob has a pet or not. ("Uh, shouldn’t he have a pet?"- Famous last words).
Pathing: What way will the mobs take to follow me? Is it possible that he will aggro other mobs on that way, too? Also, what way will he use to run away?
Aggro range: How close can I get to the mob before he will aggro on me? How long can I stay near him till he will attack me? Sometimes you can pass mobs that /con threatenly, but I wouldn’t bet on it. The fact if he aggros on you at all is also important. Some mobs won’t aggro on you at all, once they are "green" enough. Others will always attack you, even when you are lev 50 (skeletons are a nice example for this, even at lev 40 I am still attacked by them)
Aggro behavior: Will he stay aggro’d on me, even when I run past other players? There are a lot of mobs that will attack the nearest player, not necessary the one that originally attacked it (e.g. skeletons, reanimated hand, vampiric bats, gargoyles(?), and others). These can be very hard, if not impossible to pull past other groups. And other groups normally won’t be very happy if you train them with mobs.
c.) Learn the spawns
The small difference between success and failure. Know where the mobs spawn, how many spawn, how often they spawn and what mobs spawn at a given point. This enables you to check the spawn points efficiently and fast, while others just run around and hope to find a mob. You should also know what mobs could possibly spawn between the place where you pull from and the point where your group is camping.
d.) Know your group
Also a very important point. Knowing what each character in your group can do is essential, too. Having healers allows you to pull harder mobs. Having crowd-control allows you to pull multiple targets. Having mana-makers and healers also allows you to pull faster, so less break between the pulls. Know who will be the main tank. All should assist the main tank, so that enchanters, bards and necros can mez/charm surplus mobs.
2. BEFORE THE PULL
a.) Prepare yourself
Before pulling, check your buffs. You should have all the buffs your party can provide. Most useful are the following: HP, AC buffs, resistances (magic, fire, cold), STR/DEX Buffs, STA buffs (for the long runs&jumps to be faster) and maybe even symbols, runes and the like.
SoW is essential when fighting in "outdoor" dungeons like Cazic-Thule, Blackburrow, Crushbone, Mistmoore and Unrest, but can't be cast in "indoor" dungeons like Upper/Lower Guk, Splitpaw, Sol A/B, Permafrost, or Kedge Keep. If you can have it cast on you while still outside the indoor dungeons, by all means do so! Also check your health. You should be full health, for it is very likely that you will loose 1-2 bub of HP during the pull (at least that can happen fairly regulary in L Guk)
b.) Prepare the group
Also, before pulling check the situation of your group. Ask for a mana report. Let the others tell you if they are ready. Wait for their "okay". Nothing is more annoying than a puller that says "Pulling!", runs off and comes back with 4 red mobs to hear the cleric say "LOM" and the enchanter "OOM". In groups lev 30+ the pace you pull at it usually dictated by the mana of your casters (and sadly, by the number of mobs availible).
c.) On assisting
This is one, if not THE most important command to use in group fighting. There are several ways to use this:
1.) type /assist while having a group member targeted will switch your target to same target your group member has. This is the normal way to use /assist in fights with several mobs.
2.) type /assist while having a mob targeted will switch your target to the player that mob is attacking, usefull for healers to see who is smashed to pieces and needs a heal.
3.) type /assist xxxxx, where xxxxx is the name of a player. This will result with you having the same target as that player, no matter what you had targeted before. This is the best option if you have a designated person to be assisted in all fights. Normally I have a hotkey with the command /assist on my combat page of hotkeys.
MASTERING ASSISTING IS (IMHO) THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF SUCCESSFUL FIGHTING IN MULTI-MOB-ENVIRONMENTS! Sorry for the shout, but had to emphasise my point. :)
3. THE PULL
a.) Look for possible targets
After you have prepared yourself and your group for the pull, go and look for possible targets. Use your (hopefully) superior knowledge of the area, the mobs and the pathing of the mobs to be more succesful than other pullers.
b.) Inform group
Once you have found one or multiple targets, you should inform your group of the pull. This can be a simple "INC!" or a multi-line hotkey or any other sentence that clearly indicates that mobs are incoming. If in doubt if your group can the the mobs you are likely to pull, just ask them: "Uh, ready for 2 blue wans and 1 yellow zol?". If you succeed at informing your group exactly what you are going to pull and are right about it, it usually earns you a lot of respect in the group.
c.) Pull
Once your group is informed, pull the mobs using one of these methods:
- use a bow, or even throwing weapons
- run past them, thus aggo’ing them
- run up to them, and attack them
Using a ranged attack is preferred, as you have a much greater chance of not pulling unwanted mobs. With one or several mobs aggo’ed on you, you should head back as fast as possible to your group. Feel free to use shortcuts like dropping from bridges, and also jump to get a little more distance between you and the mobs. If you manage/like you can also give your group another warning that mobs are "INC!!!". When pulling multiple mobs, make sure to target the most dangerous mob first, so that those who are /assist-ing will all converge on the proper target. The list of danger is in this order:
1.) Healers - #1 priority! Otherwise they will sit there and heal whatever you are fighting.
2.) Enchanters - When half your group gets charmed you are in some serious trouble.
3.) All other caster types (wizzies, mages, necros).
4.) Tanking mobs
5.) Caster pets
Also don't attack a green creature to start a pull, hitting a green will pull both the green and the blue, hitting the blue will not always pull the green.
d.) Special notes on pulling caster mobs
Prepare your group for a caster pull. Tell them to get ready to heal you the second you are in range. This is very important for pulling wizzy ghouls in L Guk, for example.
Another thing you may want to try (where possible) is to run past the group or around another corner near the group so that he cannot stop 20 feet from your group and start nuking you. By running past your group for another 20 feet, you force him to stay into range, following you and thus running right into your waiting group. Another way to "encourage" the mob to melee is to sit down, which will cause him to come and attack you, too. But be warned, you will take maximum melee damage if the mob hits you while sitting. If pulling multiple casters, have someone who can stun keep one of them busy until the group can focus on it.
e.) What to do in case of a bad pull
Lets label it knowing when you seriously messed up. You pull too many MoBs that are way to high for your level party to handle. What to do? Well you got some options:
Kill yourself: Let your party know to STAY put and not help you. Finda good place to recover your corpse and just let the MoBs kill you and at least your party is safe. And if you have a Cleric with Res in the party at least it won't take you too long to get your body back.
Take Your Pull to the Zone: Try and make it to the zone. Just remember to warn the zone you are coming *wink*. Save your party and yourself.
Bring the Pull to the Party but Warn them it may be Hopeless: Tell your evacers to be sure they got Evac Ready cause they might need it. You might kill everything and be ok, but then you may need to evac. If you don't have evac, be sure everyone knows they maybe running for the zone or gating.
Basically Keep an eye on your pull after you pulled it. Did you run past somthing on your way that will join your pull that wasn't there before? Did you run into a Huge train on the way back that might come with you? Etc.
Other Notes
Always have the highest level tank pull if possible. The higher the level difference between the puller and the target, the smaller the aggro radius of the puller.
The /assist command only works if the target has autoattack on. Make sure to turn it on while running back after pulling.
When pulling a mob if you just run past it to aggro it and you run past another group that is fighting, it WILL leave you and join in the other groups fight usually causing much anger...You have to make sure you damage the mob. Just throwing that dagger or shooting the arrow isnt enough if you want to keep the mob on you back to your group, you have to cause damage - the more the better. This applies to multiple mob pulls as well. If you just damage one and another was in aggro range and you pull past another group fighting... yes, you guessed it, the second (undamaged mob) will join the fight already in progress again causing much anger and shouting. Also another lesson learned the hard way (i.e. much anger and shouting) is if you pull past a group that is fighting and they cast an AE spell of anykind (my example was a warrior using painbringer) and the AE spell outdamages your initial pulling damage you WILL lose the mob to that other group. In the way overcrowded dungeons being considerate and using pulling etiquette can make or break your reputation. Just remember the person you snaked that pull from today might be in the group with the openning for you tomorrow.
Do you see a particularly dangerous pull? Coordinate with a nearby group to help and everyone can benefit. For example ask another group to break the GIBs in LGuk that were spawned (full spawn of 4). Each group kills two, and both groups are happy about it because it made pulling all told much nicer. Zato Thornblade the Dwarven Rogue
Tarew MarrEdited by Zato at: 5/4/00 8:09:19 am