Putting the decency back in d20

[Llabak Tharr]

Evidently bothered by Valar Project's upcoming Book of Erotic Fantasy , WotC has amended its d20 guidelines to include the new quality standard, as follows

[Krimzan]

:">

What!? No nipples!? I demand nipples!

[Nenjin]

Damnit, is there no where the carebears can't go?!?! :">
Oh wait......I forgot I don't play D20. "They will come back, come back again, as long as the Red Earth rolls. He never wasted a tree or a leaf, why should he squander souls?"

"You're a big one....a tall drink of water, but I got to tell you, you don't look too bright. I got a son, stupid as a man who bought his stupid at a 2-for-1 sale, and you remind me of him." -Mr. Nancy

[EZ_LordOfChains]

Well huh...

Guess they're gonna haveta stop printing that Book of Vile Darkness...

Glad I already have one, nyak nyak nyak! 'Cuz I'm Psycho Like That...

[EZ_Vumyan Onion]

Well WoTC gets to decide if it's appropriate, so I'm guessing all of their products are.

But what the hell? Why can't they just put a label describing what's in the book on them?

[Nenjin]

Because they don't even want to be associated with the idea that Erotic Roleplaying is acceptable. Looks like MADD(Mothers Against Dungeons and Dragons) finally made their niche' in gaming morality after what, 15 years. All I hope is that WotC doesn't buy out any more titles and denegrate them to adhere to an asinine standard of decency. You can't ask people to restrict their creativity if you want quality product to flourish. You end up with sub-standard product when you put constraints on them like "You can't call it a demon!" "It can't drink blood!" "That thing has too many spikes!". "No it can't have a belt made from dead babies!!"

[EZ_Lady Kaylan]

MADD ... hehe.

I hate those types and I want to strangle them every time they come into my stores. Some lady came in last week and wanted something for her son that wasn't "unholy, like Dungeons & Dragons" and didn't have magic involved because it's "the tool of the devil" ... gah.

I know, not really on topic, but I don't have anything useful to add about WotC ... except they're stoooopid. But they pay me, so I won't say that out loud
I'm currently playing: Etherlords 2

[EZ_AGM Armus]

I read a press release from the Valar Project guys saying that they would be using the "Open Game License" instead of the "d20 System License" and that there would be no mechanical changes to what they had already come up with.

Can somebody explain the difference between the "Open Game License" and the "d20 System License?" Is it just a matter of what trade marks and logo's you can use in advertising?

Thanks

AGM Armus

[Nenjin]

I think so. Especially for gamers that aren't gurus of the genre, seeing the D20 mark on a book is an easy, easy way to draw a potential customer into picking it up. "They will come back, come back again, as long as the Red Earth rolls. He never wasted a tree or a leaf, why should he squander souls?"

"You're a big one....a tall drink of water, but I got to tell you, you don't look too bright. I got a son, stupid as a man who bought his stupid at a 2-for-1 sale, and you remind me of him." -Mr. Nancy

[Llabak Tharr]

Aye, I believe that's the difference.

d20 is a trademark owned by WOTC, and allow people to license the d20 trademark for free, so long as they abide by the d20 license agreements.

OGL is a commitment to provide the 'source code' of the d20 system free-of-charge to anyone who cares to use it. Feats, ability scores, basic spells and monster stat blocks, and the like.

If you look closely at the SRD, there are some differences between it and the Player's Handbook - it doesn't list out experience level charts for instance (iirc). But as I understand it, anyone can use the SRD information under the OGL, and should the OGL end up being changed, it's still legal to use old SRD under the OGL. So when D&D went to version 3.5, if they had changed the OGL to have a similar decency clause, Valar could have used the 3.0 rules SRD under the old OGL without any legal repercussions.

This is all my understanding of the situation, I coudl be horribly wrong, however

[Nenjin]

/burns a bag of starter dice and a 3E PHB

Lady Kaylan, I summon you!

[Llabak Tharr]

Yah, like she knows.

Her response to everything is "WOTC sucks (but they pay me)."

[Nenjin]

And since she the closest affliated person to the Beasttm, she probably would know

[EZ_Lady Kaylan]

Llabak is spot on (about OGL vs D20 ... not my replies!).

OGL is basically the backbone rules of the system and anyone is allowed to use them at no charge to publish their own supplements.

<edit>
Blah ... pay more attention Kaylan! D20 is a WotC logo you can slap on the back of your book to make it more 'official' and such and you have to abide by WotC rules. I'm not 100% on if it's free to use or if there is a fee for the D20 logo.
</edit>

Llabak ... I only tell *you* I don't know ... because you smell. Actually, as an FYI, it's hard to get information because WotC is made up of two different companies. Wizards Retail, for whom I work, which runs all the Game Keepers and Wizards stores you see throughout the US. The there's Wizards Product, the boys up in Renton, WA that actually make the games. Communication between the two is a pain in the ass like you wouldn't believe! Anyways ... Edited by: Lady Kaylan at: 10/8/03 12:10 pm

[Krimzan]

Quote:
/burns a bag of starter dice and a 3E PHB

Lady Kaylan, I summon you!

[EZ_namelessshaman]

There is the OGL, which like Kaylan says, which is the "backbone" of the rules. But it doesn't include a number of things, such as creation of characters or xp tables.

The d20 wotc stamp (trademark license really)is a seperate license. There is no charge to use this license, but there are certain requirements you must follow, like not including information on how to make characters or xp tables.
This d20 trademark license also now includes the "decency" clause.

(Fwiw, wotc doesn't have to follow either of these license because they own the license and therefore don't have to license it from themselves.)

So, "d20" products have the d20 stamp and follow additional rules beyond the OGL/SRD.
There are things such as:
Forbidden Kingdoms
Midnight
Testament
Skull and Bones

However, some companies just use the OGL, don't use the d20 licenese. They can't put the d20 stamp on their products and aren't allowed to use certain other verbage that is otherwise allowed with the d20 license.
These include such things as:
EQRPG
Arcana Unearthed (NB base rules only, the Diamond Throne supplement actually uses the d20 tm license and thus has the stamp)


There are more differences between the two, but there are entire mailing lists discussing just that, far too much to include it all here.

Another piece of interest is that you can use ANY version of the OGL license you want, so if something changes in a new license you don't like, you can keep publishing in an older version (simplified understanding here), but the d20 trademark license CAN change, and if you want to keep using it as a publisher you HAVE to update to the latest version to keep within the license.

[EZ_Feriin]

Reread it , Nipples are allowable.. Thank god.

Hmm I just reread it , maybe they are aren't but it did say nipples, not a nipple... Feriin Cydovu
Zankoku na'Tenshi
Mesaa
Edited by: Feriin at: 12/29/03 12:35 am