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View Full Version : There is no balance.


Qutsmnie
01-22-08, 01:47 AM
There is no balance. In regards to MMORPGs that thing that gets bantered around as the ultimate substance the driving force behind all gaming thought, balance; it doesn't exist.

I came to this conclusion when I was pondering how a rogue tanking could be unbalanced while entire groups of people doing away with the tank all together could be gaming. How could that be justice or some other such metaphysical goal? To focus on the rogue tanking while groups go on doing away with the entire role of the tank is like focusing on the ant hill in your back yard when your back yard is consumed by an entire mountain.

I suppose my conclusion was always lingering in the back of my head. Echoes of it in various ideas that I have had but never noticed their real conclusion. I said once long ago that balance was the point where nobody could make a convincing argument that things were unbalanced. But even then I still believed in balance. I just thought it was hard to see.

But not any more. I am sure there is no balance; there is only the perception of balance. It is a sophistry. A construction of rhetoric that has no more existance than those consumers that believe in it.

The devices of logic and science are perverted towards its end. But its only that. People sit in offices in San Diego making spread sheets prosuing it as if it exist but it doesn't. The only thing that matters is what people believe. If your customers believe it is balanced than it is. It is no more difficult than that. Their true goal though as producers of balance is always going to be the manufacturing of consent.

We run around these forums arguing about balance as if it is real and achievable when really it is just an argument about what ever fantasy we all want to agree with at the time.

In the end, I think the ultimate conclusion of the fact that balance does not exist and it is only the perception of balance that exist is that we are fully justified in arguing only for those things we desire in our game. Anything else would be a form of masochism.

There is no balance....

Morvran
01-22-08, 03:16 AM
I have found the balance

Meddik
01-22-08, 05:56 AM
Regarding perception of balance, I think that would be an excellent way for developers to determine what way to tweak classes within a game.

I'm sure that there is a way to data crunch, and see what characters are played most. If Class A is played 50% more time than Class B, then that means people like Class A more.

So... Find some way to give more appeal to Class B, and/or take away from Class A until they balance out. Doesn't neccesarily relate to how powerful they are. But If you have a pretty good balance of people divided amongst the various classes equally, then that means at least to the userbase, your classes are pretty balanced. It doesn't matter who has the highest DPS or best armor, or etc... just go by what they actually pick.

(Now of course, their comparison would need to be more in-depth than that. Comparins various skills within a class, comparing power sets for some games, comparing classes within a particular level range... Doesn't do any good to make Class A more powerful at lvl 5 if the imbalance begins at lvl 45.)

Loreleli
01-22-08, 06:40 AM
There is no balance. In regards to MMORPGs that thing that gets bantered around as the ultimate substance the driving force behind all gaming thought, balance; it doesn't exist.

I came to this conclusion when I was pondering how a rogue tanking could be unbalanced while entire groups of people doing away with the tank all together could be gaming. How could that be justice or some other such metaphysical goal? To focus on the rogue tanking while groups go on doing away with the entire role of the tank is like focusing on the ant hill in your back yard when your back yard is consumed by an entire mountain.

I suppose my conclusion was always lingering in the back of my head. Echoes of it in various ideas that I have had but never noticed their real conclusion. I said once long ago that balance was the point where nobody could make a convincing argument that things were unbalanced. But even then I still believed in balance. I just thought it was hard to see.

But not any more. I am sure there is no balance; there is only the perception of balance. It is a sophistry. A construction of rhetoric that has no more existance than those consumers that believe in it.

The devices of logic and science are perverted towards its end. But its only that. People sit in offices in San Diego making spread sheets prosuing it as if it exist but it doesn't. The only thing that matters is what people believe. If your customers believe it is balanced than it is. It is no more difficult than that. Their true goal though as producers of balance is always going to be the manufacturing of consent.

We run around these forums arguing about balance as if it is real and achievable when really it is just an argument about what ever fantasy we all want to agree with at the time.

In the end, I think the ultimate conclusion of the fact that balance does not exist and it is only the perception of balance that exist is that we are fully justified in arguing only for those things we desire in our game. Anything else would be a form of masochism.

There is no balance....


Rogues are tanking? wow. I used to tank lake ill omen and DSP, but after level 50 it was hard to take a hit, plus hard to tank and backstab at the same time!

I may dust off my rogue, I've been missing her lately.

/shrug but I've been seeing pets do amazing things in SoF, so it would stand to reason that dsp melee could as well in certain circumstances (decent AC/HP, enough AAs, etc.)

Tivia
01-22-08, 06:46 AM
Rogues are tanking? wow. I used to tank lake ill omen and DSP, but after level 50 it was hard to take a hit, plus hard to tank and backstab at the same time!

I may dust off my rogue, I've been missing her lately.

/shrug but I've been seeing pets do amazing things in SoF, so it would stand to reason that dsp melee could as well in certain circumstances (decent AC/HP, enough AAs, etc.)

It should be taken into account that the only rogues tanking are those with extremely high aa and top tier raid gear. Rogues with group gear or lower level raid gear and or medium to low aa are not tanking.

Trolo
01-22-08, 09:16 AM
Anyone who ever thought balance was possible in any game ever made (or in life in general) was sadly deluding themselves. Game balance would be the MMO equivalent of the Rapture. Outside the bounds of the known universe. You just have to ride the crests of the ever-changing waves.

EnolSournote
01-22-08, 10:01 AM
Tanking ain't easy! Many classes take on the roll as tank. Heck, when you solo, guess who the tank is. I find this amusing since I have mostly played characters outside the trinity of tank, healer, CC/DPS. I always hated it when people felt nothing could be done without a warrior tanking, cleric healing etc.

I think this goes back to how much EQ messed with peoples minds. Everquest was alot of peoples first exposure to MMO's so they naturally compare later experiences to EQ. Meanwhile, people who started with World of Warcraft will develop a different set of standards. It's like how people might avoid playing a certain class because how the previous MMO treated it.