View Full Version : Openings System thrown to the dogs
01-10-04, 03:53 PM
Mobhunter: Kavhok's comments on openings
Hum...ok. Well, the new disc system has gone a long way toward melee balance...but...pray-tell, what's the point of +End items going to be, except in the rare situation that we'd want to burn Duelist, Deadly Precision, Healing Will, and Resist/Fearless all in one fight?
...I'm not seeing it. Hope we get something else decent in exchange.
Redeemed Rogue of the Erollisi Marr Server
Officer of Order of Flaming Shrine
My life is a lie about lies. That doesn't necessarily make it true.
"Classes are not that out of balance -AbsorEQ"
01-10-04, 04:01 PM
You mean like tripple backstab for a start?
01-10-04, 04:30 PM
First of all, Triple Backstab is only a rumor, and even the rumor says they are only thinking about MAYBE adding it as an AA.
Second of all, I for one am glad that "openings" are gone, because they just weren't useful.
I hope that all of the abilities are not gone forever though. Just give those abilities a refresh, and an endurance cost, and you've really got something.
01-10-04, 04:40 PM
Sweet, phantom line for monks is back.. rogues still get no bonus... YAY! Veteran Kakarat Doomstalker
65 Barbarian Assassin
01-10-04, 05:29 PM
Damn I thought the openings system was a nice idea seriously.
01-10-04, 06:24 PM
nt Edited by: lenilya at: 1/10/04 6:25 pm
01-10-04, 07:17 PM
good, I didn't like the idea of that crap, and they just maxed out any hotkey, action thing we could take with the new disc thing, I won't ever be using my mouse or a new hotkey box/button setup, the effective use/alternate options of placing hotkeys is maxxed on the keyboard
Sig nerfed per rules. Signiture + Personal Photo may be no larger than 15k. Please read the SIGNATURE RULES. Thankyou. --Gyorg Edited by: Gyorg at: 1/10/04 8:30 pm
01-10-04, 07:56 PM
Also, you suck at teh MS paint.
01-10-04, 09:07 PM
First of all, tripple backstab is far from a rumour. Granted that the info was gleamed from a retard on my server posting stuff from a NDA enclosed board, but it did say it was going in beta and would be tested.
01-10-04, 11:33 PM
There are going to add more things like incite and what not is what I gathered from the devs post.
01-11-04, 03:15 AM
Quote:Hum...ok. Well, the new disc system has gone a long way toward melee balance...but...pray-tell, what's the point of +End items going to be
You mean Bloodfeast for another reason or the other 12 or so new discs they wanna add?
01-11-04, 05:27 AM
Wish they'de hurry up and add end to gear already and a way to replenish it. Dazzler Twodirks High Speed Quisinart for Hire
Guildleader of the Blades of Honor.
Monsters Slain, Pockets Picked, Corpses Dragged, and more.
No job too small, no fee too large
Card Carrying Member of The Safehouse.
Classes are not that out of balance -AbsorEQ
01-11-04, 07:07 AM
Where is this news? Sonys site is telling us that the Openings system is still on the way.
01-11-04, 09:05 AM
www.mobhunter.com/article...1514601289 I guess.
01-11-04, 09:58 AM
They took down opening because mellees ARE already balanced.Many times i have single rogue or ranger KS a mob from my whole group in BoT and my group had 6 people including me wizard with 130 aa and vt/ssra gear both times rog and rng were geared same and had about same aa's. Sooo yeaah you dont need openings.Also with new discs mag and wizard are the only classes that cant heal them selfs EVERYONE else can even a warrior ....
01-11-04, 10:08 AM
Heheh... don't use healing wind as an example of balance, all that does is heal just a small amount of normal downtime.
You can not use it while attacking.. even accidentally hitting autoattack will break it.
It heals 100 hp a tick over 1 whole minute, while draining about half of the Endurance bar, usually ends up being 1k hp.
You can not cast anything during the time, effects, anything.
So, how's that going to help a 7k+ warrior? Doesn't really help a rogue solo better, just a little less downtime. Granted, I like it, and use it quite often, and it's even saved my ass after having escaped a certain death situation only to have a DoT teetering me on 1hp for a good 20 seconds, where without I would have died for sure.
Just don't use that as an example of how melee's are balanced, because it's a miniscule addition in the grand scheme of things.
01-11-04, 10:29 AM
Quote:They took down opening because mellees ARE already balanced.Many times i have single rogue or ranger KS a mob from my whole group in BoT and my group had 6 people including me wizard with 130 aa and vt/ssra gear both times rog and rng were geared same and had about same aa's.
I call MEBS!!!
01-11-04, 11:33 AM
Mag and wiz get bind wound too ...
01-11-04, 01:19 PM
Well it was given to mellees because they said they werent balanced right?. It is a rather nice thing to have really .
Say what you want but rogue should not be able to KS the whole group no matter what.
Hell rogue should not be able to KS a wizard, wizard is supposed to be master of burst dps , rogue is master of sustained dps not both...
01-11-04, 01:22 PM
MEBS is i dunno was just something the Coneheads would yell when they didn't like something.
And with the thread title it looked like they gave all the openings to Gnolls and Drolvargs hehe. Edited by: Dazzler Twodirks at: 1/11/04 1:23 pm
01-11-04, 02:00 PM
your talking about a time geared rogue ks'ing a vt or lower geared group? how exactly is that an example of anything?
01-11-04, 02:01 PM
I'd be intrested to know the dps of the group that got KS'd. Especially since when you know you are getting KS'd multiple times you tend to chain nuke ....
01-11-04, 02:09 PM
Quote:Many times i have single rogue or ranger KS a mob from my whole group in BoT and my group had 6 people including me wizard with 130 aa and vt/ssra gear both times rog and rng were geared same and had about same aa's.
I find that rather hard to believe. Vyxn
65 Kat Rogue
"Expansions are not about class balance." --AbsorEQ
"Classes are not that out of balance ----AbsorEQ"
01-11-04, 02:34 PM
2 meleeing clerics can outdamage a rogue... Not sure how 5 of anything and a wizard were outdamage by a rogue. Maybe everyone was afk?
01-11-04, 02:36 PM
"Many times i have single rogue or ranger KS a mob from my whole group in BoT and my group had 6 people including me wizard with 130 aa and vt/ssra gear both times rog and rng were geared same and had about same aa's"
This is either a lie or you and your group were totally slacking. In case of a 65 Ranger with ele bow, EQ, AM3 and good ATK buffs it's theoretically possible if they Trueshot (300-400dps) but in case of a vt/ssra rogue (120-200 dps MAX if perfectly buffed incl FA/Fero) this story is total @#%$, sorry. Ranja
Deceiver of Tide on Venril Sathir
EZ_Wyloc the rogue
01-11-04, 05:40 PM
anyone with their Finishing blow AA can KS a group on that lucky shot. yes that means rogue, bard .... pfft anyone with the skill. if the mob is at >10% and walking away, the 32+k kill shot will KS the group, yes you can even do it with an uber throwing knife. its restricted to the lvl limits on FB and procing that FB hit. you can even do it on the odd mob in tactics.
01-11-04, 07:13 PM
if the opening system is canned all melee are back to square one, we have a few new discs nothing really special, this is the @#%$ weve been waiting like 8 months for, i have to admit i wasnt a big fan of the opening system but they better replace it with something, even if it is more DPS cause i for one am not going to forget the fact that so far we have got jack @#%$ out of this deal Edited by: Korthuran at: 1/11/04 7:13 pm
01-11-04, 07:21 PM
While I cannot imagine a rogue with even the best of equipment being able to KS a BoT mob from a group, I can say from personal experience that a ranger can KS mobs of that kind easily. Or at least, it seems easy from where I'm standing. I was in a group that was taking down Oreen when he popped. At the same time as we initiated combat, a ranger with a Stonewood Bow popped out Trueshot, and about a minute and a half later, the ranger kneeled down and looted a pair of Ornate Leggings. Granted, the group I was in was not the best ever assembled, but it was still pretty decent. So...yea.
01-11-04, 07:49 PM
Rogue dps is remarkably reliable.
Let me qualify that.
When we talk about variation in rogue parses making it difficult to pick weapons etc were talking about variation in the 125% of normal range to 150% of normal down to 75% of normal.
But and I mean this I cant ever recall parsing 300dps (i base 180dps) on a mob. Thats not even double. Double dps would be 360dps and without a disc i never see it.
Thats what i mean by rogue dps is remarkably steady.
Whats the point to this thread? I want to head off the notion that a rogue could accidently do double dps cause of ran working in his favor. It just doesnt happen.
KSn equally equipped groups is nearly impossible.
01-12-04, 06:13 AM
Even with Coup De Grace 3 i have NEVER gotten a finishing blow in BoT.
01-12-04, 07:12 AM
Looks like lucy.allakhazam.com/spell...ource=Test is still to be added though.
01-12-04, 07:46 AM
i donno, maybe its cause im not in a crazy raiding guild that does ele planes daily, but i am quite happy with my Rogue, he isn't the best equipped but as i just started to be able to get groups in Tier 2 planes easy'er now, i dint really want more dps, i have hard enough time losing Argo unless the tank is a pali anyway, but im sure my tune will change once i hit higher planes, only thing that really bugs me is i was 57 last weekend grouped in CoD and im BSing max dmg like ever 3rd time and missing almost never, was so proud of myself, but as soon as i hit 58 i was lucky to see anything over 250 =O( felt like i was level 30 again
Baron Kheldhor 58 Barbarian Blackguard
01-12-04, 09:55 AM
Last I heard, the person who did the most damage got the exp. Its not based on group, its based on a per person thing. If that person is grouped, then the exp gets shared.
So if you have a rogue doing 10k damage to a mob, while the 6 wizzies in a group do 9900 EACH, the rogue would still get the kill.
This was long back it may have changed, but I haven't heard anything to say that it has.
65th Bard on Innoruuk
Officer, Elder Tribunal
01-12-04, 10:10 AM
That changed two or three years ago. I remember I was mad because I couldn't ks full groups at the aviak village in SK anymore. /sniff
01-12-04, 02:19 PM
Quote:But and I mean this I cant ever recall parsing 300dps (i base 180dps) on a mob. Thats not even double. Double dps would be 360dps and without a disc i never see it.
I have grouped with rogues in LDoN hard adventures who do around 300dps. Its impossible to come close to their damage. Hata Takushi
"No, I'm not a patient, I'm on the opposing team, the doctors... - House of God"
01-12-04, 02:28 PM
I base 180dps.
You completely didnt understand my post.
The point of my post was that rogue wont vary that much from what ever number you got him pegged. Which a group of like equiped 6 people will ks easily.
You think these time equipped paladins are pumping out the 75 dps my old guilds paladins were pumping out?
Fully buffed rogue dps isnt even twice fully buffed equally equiped warrior dps so you tell me how a rogue ks's 6 people when my original point was rogues dont see strong variance.
If you know a rogue that pumps out 300dps fine. But i guarentee there are warriors that clear 150 fully buffed easily.
The point is someone said rogues can ks entire groups. The only time that is true is if the rogue is woefully more powerful then the group.
01-12-04, 11:20 PM
I have ifir and grmk. I may do 300 dps ocassionally but it is not the norm, and usually only happens on really short fights.
fixed spelling Edited by: vyxn at: 1/12/04 11:22 pm
01-13-04, 12:03 AM
We are probably talking a different league here as I am only level 20 but I did accidently KS a Dark Blue mob from group of 4 people at my level recently. Someone in the group had suggested I join them then an invite popped up and I accepted and immediately piled in to the fight they were already having. When the mob died they complained about me KSing them and I realised that the invite had not been from them
I must have just landed an unusually high percentage of Max backstabs