View Full Version : What do you like in your groups.
01-13-04, 04:51 PM
Ok this Topic got me thinking. What do ppl like in there groups?
Me personally I like melee. Lots and lots of melee. I just feel melee provide more dmg in a group setting. Plus they can backup tank mez.
Not saying I hate casters. But I feel 10 times safer in a melee group then a group with tank, me and casters. Plus I can tell alot easier who is slacking or not.
I think my favorite group would be
Thats my kill sh!t and move on group.
P.S. we are talking about LDoN groups. Katsuo Muramasa | BLood of Ro | Profile
01-13-04, 05:05 PM
ranger for atk buffs =)
Bstlord for Ferocity =)
Sham for FA =)
Chanter for Haste =)
SK tank for atk tap =)
thats for normal LDoN where you don't need a cleric.
In Hard LDoN i prefer
Renewed shall be blade that was broken
The crownless again shall be king
01-13-04, 05:33 PM
Not much beats that in the long run.
Deceiver and grandmaster poisoner
01-13-04, 06:17 PM
Any ranged DPS.(me usually-Wizard)
Can also trade the shaman for a Paladin, Druid or Cleric easily, or with a second Necromancer to keep life transfers going if someone gets hit.
This has worked for me everywhere, not just LDON, though this set up chews a slaughter or collect mission up pretty quick if everyone knows their role.
I like this setup because most of the required classes traditionally go lfg for a long time, and it requires no Holy Trinity members, definatly no clerics, and is adjustable to everything but a raid type encounter. The only difficult member to find is the bard and shaman, either or both of which can be replaced by a variety of classes--especially a pally if you convince him not to tank, or a cleric once he gets around the fact that he don't need to heal. Edited by: Necridious at: 1/13/04 6:22 pm
01-13-04, 09:52 PM
any 4 others as long as 1 is a tank type
with those 2 starting blocks, any group is going to be successful Tikker Gimblestan
Stuff I Own
01-13-04, 09:54 PM
I enjoy a well rounded group.
01-13-04, 10:33 PM
Speaking from the enchanter perspective:
1. Me for C5, Haste, CC, Charm.
2. Cleric for heals, one that is skilled and awake enough to keep me alive when charm breaks.
3. Once Paladin for aggro and BSS, I havent played enough since the big patch to judge if Warriors can keep up now. This is also puller - I like adds.
Beyond that it's just gravy, but ideally:
4. Well equipped Rogue for dps (ranger preferred on Assassinate, for Trueshot)
5. Well AA'd Druid for port/succor movement, snare, dps and backup heals. A simple SRo port can save 15 minutes or more between adventures.
6. Bard, Beastlord or Shammie for slowing duty and additional hp/mana regen
01-13-04, 11:16 PM
Though my coolest group yet was:
That group got stuff done, and that was that. A paladin friend of mine, and guild officer, once did a 6 paladin LDoN, and said that was really cool.
Edited by: HamedoQuickfists at: 1/13/04 11:16 pm
01-14-04, 01:39 AM
Rogue - me
All my friends Cuz it's always fun.
01-14-04, 02:13 AM
Pet groups > all in LDoN normals. Two beastlords, three mages and a necro can tear through a mission easily in under 20 minutes.
On hard, just need an enchanter and you can do anything.
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01-14-04, 03:08 AM
SK or Pal
Rog or Ranger
Plenty of group mana regen, group hp regen, offtankage, dps, healing, CC, utility, etc. And no one needs to sit. Just get buffs outside group (like KEI/symbol/etc). I'm a big fan of lowering downtime and minimizing needed heals, so paragon, zevfeers, mindwrack, bardsong, SK tap, etc IMO are indispensable. In this group a druid would do 90% nukes 10% heals.
Also, when mobs are easy to tank (like LDoN), a DS is more important than a bigger slow. Pull several at once and offtank with a >100pt DS and group regen effects.
01-14-04, 08:26 AM
The problem with melee-centric groups is the dependancy on uptime. If you want to maximize your DPS you always ALWAYS need to have a mob in-camp, aggro-locked and well positioned BEFORE the melee's current target dies.
This requires incredible feats of pulling, an excess of healer mana (and a slower) a level of awareness far beyond what most tanks/root-parkers have or players of such high-end equipment that the damge dealt to them by the mobs is insignificant.
If you can do these things with 4 melee classes who wield excellent weapons, you can probably tear through LDoN's almost as fast as pet/damage caster-heavy groups. Your Sister in Arms,
01-14-04, 03:09 PM
Who said anything about pulling. Most of my groups just rush rooms. Heavy melee group and rushing = 15 adv. Katsuo Muramasa | BLood of Ro | Profile
I have a feeling you and your melee-rush guildies fall into the "players of such high-end equipment that the damge dealt to them by the mobs is insignificant" category.
01-14-04, 03:26 PM
Quote:What do you like in your groups.
Anything else is gravy.
My by-far favorite LDoN run was:
If I remember right, we did that in less than 15 mins. lol
So much damage so fast there was little healing required. Sabine tanking! Woot! hehe
Second favorite run:
LDoN generated for a "standard" 6 person group... 3 went L/D within 5 mins. One before zoning, one on zone-in, and the "healer" L/D within the first 3 rooms.
What remained was:
Finished in under 30 mins.
What is this "oh, you have to have x, y, z to do it..." crap?!
...oh...and it has nothing to do with ele/time vs pre-ele geared... MOST of my most fun and unconventional LDoN groups was before I was ele/time geared up and with other people who, some of which, hadn't set foot in anything above BoT...
I have to admit that some of the crazier stuff will take ele/time gear, but then, isn't the high end LDoN point gear supposed to be the gap-bridger between pre-ele and ele?! At least, that's what everyone keeps saying... Edited by: Cybelle at: 1/14/04 3:30 pm
Finished in under 30 mins.
What is this "oh, you have to have x, y, z to do it..." crap?!Those 3 classes cover all the roles. Tank, Healer, Slower, CC, snare, DPS, etc...
You'd be hard-pressed to lose half of any group and be so lucky in what you have remaining.
01-14-04, 06:50 PM
Quote:I have a feeling you and your melee-rush guildies fall into the "players of such high-end equipment that the damge dealt to them by the mobs is insignificant" category.
Doesn't take uber gear to do it. With worse gear, you just need more melee. Spread the damage around until the situation is controlled. You'll likely have an SK or paladin for group heals or a BL as well as a mezzer to get the situation under control much faster.
I've built a lot of pick up groups on this principle, just getting whoever was available. Under-AA'd, under-geared, non-65s, I've seen it all. Having the AA and gear makes it easy, such that you can do it with 1 tank and not bother to mez the first 3 mobs to beat on him. But what really matters for the group isn't that.
It's the brains to know what to do and the guts to be willing to do it. Those that believe they can't do it are frequently wrong. The reality is that they haven't done it and they aren't willing to try doing it. Especially true with high elf paladins and dark elf tanks...a cowardly lot. Last races I add
Luckily for my groups, they've got me to back 'em up. Either I built the group and so I say how it's going to be. Or else it's people that have grouped with me before...and they say how it's going to be. Because they know they can now. And they know it's faster and more fun.
Confidence and experience. That's what it's about. Edited by: Axterix EnObelix at: 1/14/04 6:51 pm
01-14-04, 07:38 PM
The secret of efficiency in melee heavy groups is to let
the cleric pull!
01-14-04, 10:58 PM
Why do you guys add shammys when you have bst / cleric...yeah 7 is nice but not that essentail. The bst 65 slow is way way decent enough for even ldon hard missions.
such nice dps there. Of course these set up is with all members at the ep level so maybe sub ep i could see why the shaman is needed.
In our fastest normal groups out set up is
Its sick how fast they get done, but its fun!
In Exp groups i prefer
Pal / SK
Enc Dire charmed pet is nice =)
01-15-04, 05:53 AM
Since you're strictly speaking LDoN: any competent player Although, since I'm usually the one making the pickup group and I don't know the 5 other people that's pretty near impossible.
A good group composition is; bl, clr, brd, war, rog, rog.
Can easily swap brd for enchanter or another pet class/competent root puller/dps. Cleric can be swapped out for either of the other priest classes. If you don't have a cleric swap the warrior for a paladin simply so you can have rez inside the dungeon (just in case *crosses fingers*).
But I'm a big fan of having at least one BL in my groups
01-15-04, 12:05 PM
I like people who know and do their jobs. Other than that, it doesn't really matter as long as the makeup works (melee, healer and a support class).
Edited by: Isodia at: 1/15/04 12:06 pm
01-16-04, 02:19 PM
With these three you can pretty much rip most dungeons to bits. The remaining three members can be pretty much anything, though a puller with lull is nice (either cleric, pally, or bard) but not essential.
Quote:Confidence and experience. That's what it's about. Take a look at my Magelo. An unslowed mob in a lvl 65 dungeon drops me like a sack of rocks. It takes 2 fully-buffed, double-disc'ing Rogues to tank these things down in the kind of gear I have, which drains all of our hitpoints and one of our Escape's. And that's just one mob... For people like me, "rushing" a room of 3-4 mobs without healing/slowing/cc isn't confidence, it's suicide.
So, feel free to enlighten me as to what it is I'm missing... Your Sister in Arms,
01-17-04, 08:55 AM
A tank that positions everything. That pays attention to where he/she is pushing the mob. That controls and places at the best possible spot for where a fight takes place. That moves the one mob we are fighting away from the 5 other mezzed mobs so the enchanter can target easier. That corrects where he is facing so that I can always backstab. You'd think this would be obvious to any tank class to do all this, but I always seem to find most groups I get in to have a tank that pushes a mob up into the wall from the start of the fight and continues to push the mob till it is nearly in the ceiling. It annoys me to no end and trying to tell em what they should be doing never seems to help.
Uber geared people that realizes they are not in an uber pick-up group, but still try to have fun and try to help the group do the best it can instead of going on and on about how much better they are then you and how much faster they can complete the adventure in thier normal groups and so on and so on. I wonder if they ever listen to themselves. Some groups I play in, I have more hitpoints then the warrior and I realize we won't just be bum rushing rooms and killing mobs in 30 seconds or less. Some groups I play in, the enchanter has more hitpoints then me and I realize we are gonna be moving from one room to the next real fast. Some groups have the casters with the flowing thought to continuosly hit and move, some groups need med breaks depending on the pace. I have had a few people from top tier guilds that don't seem to realize just how much difference thier gearing really makes and thinks people with mostly bazaar bought gearing isn't able to play as they normally play cause of lack of skill. Not a rant against uber geared people, most I have grouped with have been very nice and thoughtful.
A puller of some sort that knows how to set the pace for the group he/she is in.
Really, the actual class does not matter. Just be sure to have healer, slower and DPS.
01-17-04, 04:30 PM
In Hard LDoN, it's amazing how Monk was never mentioned. I can single Hard LDoN like it was cake. I have yet to meet a Bard who could.
Every single Bard I have grouped with in Hard LDoN has pussied out of pulling Hard because they can't do it single. We are talking VT level toons here for the Hard LDoN.
So is it just that you don't like Monks or what?
01-17-04, 05:02 PM
I am trying to find another class completely unmentioned but I cannot heheh.
A new high for monks =P
01-17-04, 07:12 PM
Monk pulling is to slow. Katsuo Muramasa | BLood of Ro | Profile
01-17-04, 08:01 PM
For normal LDoN I usually do:
Have yet to take longer than 40 minutes, and since we group every day typically we can do 2 adventures per hour.
Teir`Dal Deciever of Notabilis Kruoris
~~ It's what I do best, baby, and you know you want me. ~~
01-17-04, 08:51 PM
Sorry but monks just dont add much as they currently are . Monk pulling is slow and monk DPS is low .
01-17-04, 09:08 PM
Yep, but everytime I say that on this board im told monks are fine
01-17-04, 11:58 PM
I wanna see any other class out pull me in speed and singles in a Hard LDoN.
01-18-04, 02:55 AM
In easy mode, I just like to play with a group of people that are skilled and play their class well. The less conventional the group is, the more fun I get. Healers class are mostly useless in easy mode (and you just need a plate class with ornate level gear to go through a mission with just a shamy healing). We usually just rush rooms and tank everything that is in room, massive DS making it very efficient. Melee groups are usually more efficient at this.
In hard mode, some of the best groups I had was very heavy on mana regen/slowers:
An enchanter is a must in hard mode, charmed pet is incredible damage.
Tanks can die in hardmode, having at least another melee to tank while MT is dead is absolutely needed. Duke Khroghleulai Tonneaudebiere < Elemental Dawn >
01-18-04, 07:57 AM
For normal mode i go with anything - the higher then DPS the better.
On hard mode the best group that I often get into is:
This group is basically built around the enchanter. Ideally this group finds a charmable mob as quickly as possible and gets it hasted and dual weilding which will then be the majority of the groups DPS. The enchanter also is instrumental in doing most of the pulling.
A shaman may seem a bit redundant in a group with ench/cleric already, but its really required to keep the enchanter and the group alive on charm breaks. You need a second healer, and a second slower is nice.
Wiz/druid is almost a requirement because chances are the enchanter is gonna die at least once to their pet, and being able to succor away from the hasted quad hitting pet can save the group from a wipe.
Rogue is useful for doing the DPS before we find a pet, and for CR'ing people from the pet if it breaks and we have to succor.
Tank/Clreric usefulness is obvious I think.
I was pretty dubious about this group at first - having a pet that often will kill the enchanter at least once an adventure seems kind of reckless, and a waste of time. But the amount of DPS it puts out is absolutly sick (so sick Im sure most of us rogues think it badly needs a nerf), and things die so fast that its worth dealing with the troubles.
Dove the Silent. Assassin of Clan Ta'Veren
01-18-04, 08:25 AM
I have done about 120 adv before getting bored, almost all of them as pickup groups where i did the invites and i must say that makeing a ldon group is more or lass about the players first and class after.
If u have a good tank (i talk all defansive AA not HP) then i can keep him up without slower so i just invite 4 more, if i get a good slower then we dont need tank ranger/monk/beast/pet can do the tanking easly. if i can't find slower or a tank then i try to get 2 necro and 3 more and we go and do BB necro slow/maze undead and i can keep there pet heal easly.
All in all i find that trying to talk about the perfect group when talking about normal adv in ldon to be silly, the adv are simply to easy to be of any chalange to people who pay attention.
Beasthealer druid 65
01-18-04, 11:49 AM
monk x 4
ae slow, ds, and mana song, just rush rooms, all monks pickup adds. perferrably all monks have some good self DS to stack with bard DS. with stonestance refreshing every 5ish mins and mend every 6ish mins, if used right the cleric doesn't have to be healing frantically. if the cleric has Divine Arbitration it's a lock.
mobs die fast. and it's chaotic enough to actually be fun.
*note* decently equipped monks only. if you have less than 7k hps buffed, don't even come to the fight p.
*this is for normal adventures.
BTW katsuo if you think monk pulling is too slow, you should do an adventure with me. Hard or Normal, doesn't matter. Don't base your opinion of monks on the poor performance of the ones you've seen p. Being a good friend and former guildmate you should know better than to make generalized comments as such.
Sensai Ssoulz Jah <Darkblood>
65 Transcendant of Cazic Thule
"When I was a kid, my parents traveled alot - but I always found them.
- Rodney Dangerfield
Edited by: Rhizzen at: 1/18/04 11:52 am
01-18-04, 11:28 PM
is pretty cool in easy ldon
shaman pulls 4-ish, slows all, ranger locks agro with flame lick
consistently finish missions and get back to wayfarers camp before mission request timer refreshes Teiresias
01-19-04, 04:55 AM
>>In Hard LDoN, it's amazing how Monk was never mentioned. I can single Hard LDoN like it was cake. I have yet to meet a Bard who could.
Meet me I can chain single pull all day long in all hards. But it took me FT15 + FT4 from AA skills, as well as a >4k mana pool to acheive that.
>>Every single Bard I have grouped with in Hard LDoN has pussied out of pulling Hard because they can't do it single
Back when I had FT7 I had about 3-4 pulls of 2-3 mobs (where I mezzed in camp), rest were single. You must've not met a bard with uber FT and good pull skills. Bards are really screwed out of FT items till EPs though (aside from a few items like AHR neck and seru ring)
01-19-04, 09:48 AM
Monks are useful on hard adventures for pulling and therefor useful in general. All the hard adventures I have every done havent had a bard and just used FD pulling. Missions typically range in the mid 30 min to 40 min without any charming. Key to being a good FDr puller is to realize your primary job is pulling and not DPS. Some monks get this and some monks dont. But to be fair some bards get it and some bards dont~
For mobs that dont split quickly but are down to 2. Tag with mez or root in my opinion (depends on your faith in the tank to intercept). Or atleast be casting right when the tag goes on. Thats if your group isnt in the elemental ballpark Essentially as good as a single. Root isnt heavily resisted. If you are in the elemental ballpark just pulling 2 seems to work~.
Its lull, paci, and weak dps mobs that keep the monk down.
01-20-04, 06:45 AM
01-20-04, 11:04 AM
Here is my preferred group:
Tank (SK would probably be ideal for FD, but it doesn't really matter)
This is for a lev 65 group. For lower levels, I would tend to avoid the wizard, but at 65, I believe that wizards help the group kill faster than another melee would. On the other hand, if you have all casters, it takes a while for the tank to initially lower the mobs hp before the casters will start nuking. Therefore I like a combo of melee and one caster.
01-21-04, 12:57 AM
Coolest thing I've seen is 3 necro's doing a 60 slaughter and finishing faster than most full groups.
Sick that these can be soloed now.
01-22-04, 05:16 AM
I like gnomes. They are funny and make me laugh. I always ask gnomes to join group. Ellessar d'Mornei: Maestro, Impressario, Virtuoso, Bard of Bristlebane
01-22-04, 06:10 AM
For normal adv I like
Bombes of Runes - Karana