View Full Version : Ancient Chaos Strike
01-14-04, 08:44 AM
Ancient Chaos Strike looks like the new top-of-the-line ability for us (replacing openings?). With that name it smells a bit like VT, dont you think? Ranja
Deceiver of Tide on Venril Sathir
01-14-04, 11:27 AM
There will be a line of ancient songs/spells in this expansion. The new melee system would allow for them to give ancient abilities to melee i presume.
Rytan posted the Ancient info on the bard boards.
Impresario Sirdeimos Musewriter
01-14-04, 11:31 AM
I disagree, it looks ALOT more like an "Ancient" rogue ability tome. It even says the skill is only usable by 65 rogues.
Interesting, so we're getting "Ancient" END abilities and discs eh.
01-14-04, 12:13 PM
On a side note the berzerker disc are in.
Theres an awful lot of monk sounding stuff in the zerker package.
Now forgive me but a sore point has always been:
has a monk ever looked balanced when compared directly to a feral lord?
Why is monk their favorite class to rip off on? Why not just make monks better?
01-14-04, 02:15 PM
anything with the word "ancient" reminds me of Vex Thall /twitches Derrict Thealcoholic - Nameless Server
01-14-04, 02:54 PM
90%+ of what I see specific to berzerkers is:
Battle War Cry of x and rage/fury of whatever.
Battle Cry of Dravel
War Cry of Dravel
Battle Cry of the Mastuq
Ancient Cry of Chaos
Burning Rage Discipline
Battle Sense Discipline
Cleaving Rage Discipline
Battle Focus Discipline
Inspired Anger Discipline
Blind Rage Discipline
Cleaving Anger Discipline
That's the complete list. Let's see...
Oh yes...Battle Cry. That screams monk! War Cry? Oh hell yeah! That's monk all the way! (classic berzerker thing throughtout the genre...)
Rage-anything, Fury-anything, or Anger-anything... Oh that has monk written all over it... (aren't monks supposed to be disciplined and self-controlled? the antithesis of "rage" or "fury"...)
Reckless?! Well...maybe the way some monks play, but not the spoirit of the class...
Cleaving?! Sure... Only a monk should be hefting a huge f'ing axe to cleave their targets in two... mmmhmmm...
Sprint? I might grant that that possibly sounds like a monk thing, although every "barbarian" movie I've seen (where it seems they are taking the essence of the berzerker class from), it was the lone barbarian/berzerker running across vast distances at great speed to track the the vile horde/king/queen/dark lord and destroy him with his big bad axe! The monk usually taking his time, travelling the distance, learning and noticing the small things on his way...
Inspired? That sounds monkly...except that little word after it... Anger...
You're right. Most of that list sounds like monk things... *nods*
01-14-04, 04:07 PM
" Why is monk their favorite class to rip off on? Why not just make monks better? "
From some of the AA I have read monks will get an equivalent of: Flurry, Rampage, and Tactical Mastery. Those are warrior specific AA's.
51 Iksar Monk
65 Ogre OVERLORD of Rallos Zek
Officer: Self Righteous Bastards
01-14-04, 04:47 PM
the names arnt monkly but most of the disc have monkly equivalents.
Which might just be the same as saying melee equivalents either way the class that tends to loose the most when something muscles in on melee turf is the monk.
Do monks look balanced next to feral lords. Have they ever looked balanced next to feral lords.
the first thing they did with feral lords was made them not the best dps and not the best tanking. To get both of those the monk had to be a specialist yet the feral lord gets it relatively for free.
Now they are going to punch another melee into the same mold:
not the best tank and not the best dps.
Whos going to be the most obvious comparison? monks.
And will they look equal? If the feral lord thing is any indicator they will always look like the lesser class.
Edited by: Qutsemnie at: 1/14/04 4:52 pm
01-14-04, 04:59 PM
Why does a class have to be THE BEST at something. Why cant they just bring in a new melee and have it be added DPS? Has anyone thought about that. Its just another class that does dmg. Who cares what it can do. Worry about your own class problems before worrying about a class that isn't even in the game yet.
P.S. neat idea the Zerker is but, I think its a little to late in the game. Fix auto attack on bows or another door. Dont feed the already flaming fire of class balancing. Katsuo Muramasa | BLood of Ro | Profile
01-14-04, 05:03 PM
Ever tried to commit suicide but you were out of range ?
SOE has the answer ! Now you can use the fabulous self only chaos strike from a staggering 150 range !
01-14-04, 06:05 PM
It could easily argued, from the composition of the berzerker info out there, Q...that they will shove ROGUES out of the way as pure damage dealer by doing insane damage PLUS being able to lend "buffs" (war cries) to other melees...
Or should Bards feel pushed out by being a zerker with no dps?
Take your pick... The first cries were that these were going to be taking the rogue spot as prime sustained dps by being what all the rogues wanted. High DPS + group utility...
I'ma stick to my rogue... Although I'm certainly going to TRY a zerker...
01-14-04, 06:25 PM
I have no worries bout rogues. You could argue it but im going to be right =) I wont argue that zerkers cause rogues hardaches because the natural thing to do when making a class is make it a medium in existing areas. You can argue i dont know this but lets say im wrong. Ok fine i have no point. Lets say im right? Then I have a point.
Its that simple. The relevance is that now before anyone ever plays a zerker is the time for them to address this.
The question they have to ask themselves *before* anyone becomes invested in a zerker is how does this class compare to monk. Because prior to any customers playing it they can nerf zerkers all day long and twice on sundays and nobody will whine. But after zerkers are out they dont have that luxury.
And why do rogues care if the developers balance a zerker against a monks ability?
Becuase (and monks might bemoan this) rogue is a better class then monks. (mmmm rogue love). The relevance is that its impossible for me to imagine the zerker be successfully balanced against the middle of the road monk while simultaneously being unbalanced against rogues.
So if they balance against monks rogues are implicitly ok with the new class.
If they dont then they dont but chances are they will make a middle of the road melee'r that trumps monks almost across the board. Does that worry a rogue?
Im not worried. Im extremely dubious that they want to create another class that gets by on dps. However it will still be ironic that monks look weak against two expansion classes in a row which have similiar abilities and more pluses. Which inadvertently effects rogues. Just because of their excessively tight relationship with the pure melee classes.
And maybe im wrong.
01-14-04, 06:42 PM
No, but they can introduce a caster and I can say that it will hurt rogues... If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, b ut if I'm right, I have a point...
WTF?! That's not an acceptable reason to belabour a point...really. In fact it's no basis to make a claim whatsoever.
All the things I've seen about berzerkers say they are going to be a non-tanking burst and sustained serious dps dealer WITH group-benefit abilities.
Sounds like a bard/rogue in leather to me... If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but if I'm right, then I have a point.
Right or wrong, it's an observation I am not worried about. The new aa's, as listed so far, suck ass for rogues. I'll always love my rogue, but I'm likely to make a zerker since it sounds like it'll be everything I always hoped the rogue would be...awsome burst and sustained dps and of some other use BESIDES hitting attack and walking away.
01-14-04, 06:47 PM
I cant figure out if your upset that I made a presumptions about zerkers or if your upset that I didnt make a presumption that they were bad for rogues.
I thought I had it figured out until you told us you already decided to quit your rogue to make a zerker cause they are more inline for what you wanted your rogue to be.
Always bet on rogue thats my motto.
01-14-04, 09:19 PM
I'll tell ya what though, I'd give my third nut for a Sprint Discipline.
EZ_Lanludar da rogue
01-15-04, 12:57 AM
Btw guys, if you go onto test server berserker is a pickable class just not playable and if you read the description ot says they wear chain armor... just what we need another chain class. Chew on that for a few minutes. hehe
01-15-04, 03:01 AM
Quote:Btw guys, if you go onto test server berserker is a pickable class just not playable and if you read the description ot says they wear chain armor... just what we need another chain class. Chew on that for a few minutes. hehe
Cool, if that's true then they will only have to add 1 more chain class, 1 more cloth class and 2 more leather classes to achieve actual balance as far as competition for armor-types goes.
01-15-04, 07:34 AM
Quote:Cool, if that's true then they will only have to add 1 more chain class, 1 more cloth class and 2 more leather classes to achieve actual balance as far as competition for armor-types goes.
Because the numbers in the char-select screen say anything about the actual raid class distribution in the eplanes? Ranja
Deceiver of Tide on Venril Sathir
01-15-04, 08:37 AM
It's a form of balance that was clearly put into game intentionally. Do you think it was just coincidence that the last class added was leather, when there were only 2 other leather classes at the time?
Just as easily as you can say that 5-4-3-4 won't be representational of the general population, I can say that 5-3-3-4 certainly isn't now.