Request for Updated Guides..

[Aidden]

My last request was generic, asking for anything people may wan to contribute, but now that the Everquest site is back up, I have noticed quite a few outdated guides and am now asking for assistance with getting updated guides written and added to the website.

Below is a list of guides I would like to add to the site. Some of them may already be created and dropped a few pages back; others may need to be rewritten altogether. If anyone would like to contribute to the site, please feel free to take on any of these.

Feel free to work on anything that is not on this list as well. We will always take new submissions.

Rogue AA Guide – (Lesser classes optional)
Updated Rogue Creation /leveling Guide 1-25, 25-50, 50-65
Updated Plane of Hate Guide
Pickpocket Guide
Sneak Hide Guide

[EZ_reincarrn8ed]

Here's my AA Guide for Rogue class. Some of this is my own opinion, but forgive me if anything is blatently not correct or incomplete, and let me know! If there's not a better one out there, let's work on this one together. Don't criticize me too hard on this ;o) I'd very much appreciate working on this as a group. (Thank you KayleighDrake for the corrections. )

AA Points are Alternative/Advanced Ability Points that you can begin to earn at level 51 to further increase your character's abilities. There are many AA Points Rogues get upon reaching level 51+, and some are very unique. Some AAs have a recommended level that you must reach before being allowed to train into that ability. Some AAs require a prequisite in order to train into that ability. There are 5 catergories of AAs: General, Archtype, Class, PoP Advance, and PoP Ability.

In a perfect world, it would be ideal to max all of these AAs. ;P But that is very hard to do for most of us, and it requires a great deal of time and effort. So, here is a list of the most common AA Abilities that Rogues tend to spend into. NOTE: There are other AA abilities available to Rogues that you personally may find more useful according to your own situation/equipment. This is just simply a list of the most commonly spent AAs among Rogues. Being a damage dealer, many Rogues set the goal to max out the offensive AAs first (6 AAs in General + Combat Fury 3, Ambidexterity, Ferocity 3, Fury of the Ages 3) before moving on to the Defensive / HP-boosting AAs. However, keep in mind this is only one of many plans. For instance, your plan might be to get a few HP boosting AAs, before going on to spend into the offensive AAs. There are many options. The least amount of spent AA points you can have in order to obtain the Class title "Marauder" is 42 AA Points. (6 AAs in General + 12 in Archtype + 24 in Class = 42).

This also is a list of the AAs that many Rogues are most likely to spend into first (but are not listed here in any order of importance/priority) -- however, you may personally choose to pick different AAs first, and then go back and get some of the ones listed here. It really comes down to what works well for you.

~~~~~~~

General: Level 51+ needed. You need to spend any of 6 AA Points in this catergory in order to start putting points into the "Archtype" AAs -- also, once you have 6 AAs in this catergory, you obtain the title 'Baron/Baroness'. The numbers that are in parentheses indicate the number of AA Points needed to spend into the Ability per rank. (ex.: Innate Run Speed 1. For the 1st rank, you need 1 AA Point. For the 2nd rank you need 1 AA Point... for the 3rd rank you need 1 AA Point.



Here are some typical AA Choices for the "General" Catergory:

Innate Strength 5 (1 AA Point per rank, 5 ranks)
Innate Stamina 5 (1 AA Point per rank, 5 ranks)
Innate Dexterity 5 (1 AA Point per rank, 5 ranks)
Innate Agility 5 (1 AA Point per rank, 5 ranks)
Innate Run Speed 3 (1 AA Point per rank, 3 ranks)
Innate Regen 3 (1 AA Point per rank, 3 ranks)
Innate Metabolism 3 (1 AA Point per rank, 3 ranks)
Innate Lung Capacity 3 (1 AA Point per rank, 3 ranks)
First Aid 3 (1 AA Point per rank, 3 ranks)

Archtype: Level 55+ needed. You need to spend a total of 18 AA Points (6 + 12 AAs spent in this catergory) in order to start putting points into the "Class" AAs -- also, once you have a total of 18 spent AAs (including 12 AAs spent in this catergory), you obtain the title 'Veteran'. The numbers that are in parentheses and seperated by slash marks indicates the number of AA Points needed to spend into the Ability per rank. (ex.: Combat Fury 3. For the 1st rank, you need 2 AA Points. For the 2nd rank you need 4 AA Points... for the 3rd rank you need 6 AA Points.

Here are some typical AA Choices for the "Archtype" Catergory:

Combat Fury 3 (2/4/6) (12 AA Points total)
Natural Durability 3 (2/4/6) (12 AA Points total)
Combat Agility 3 (2/4/6) (12 AA Points total)
Combat Stability 3 (2/4/6) (12 AA Points total)


Class: Level 59+ needed. Once you have spent 24 AAs in this catergory, you obtain the final (class) title, 'Marauder'. The numbers in parenthesis indicate how many AA Points are needed in order to gain that ability per rank.

Here are some typical AA Choices for the "Class" Catergory:

Ambidexterity (9 AA Points)
Escape (9 AA Points)
Chaotic Stab (6 AA Points)
Physical Enchancement (5 AA Points)
Poison Mastery 3 (3/6/9?) (18 AA Points total?)


PoP Advance: Level 61+ needed. There is no title gained for spending points in this catergory.

Here are some typical AA Choices for the "PoP Advance" Catergory:

Advanced Innate Strength 10 (1 AA Point per rank, 10 ranks)
Advanced Innate Stamina 10 (1 AA Point per rank, 10 ranks)
Advanced Innate Agility 10 (1 AA Point per rank, 10 ranks)
Advanced Innate Dexterity 10 (1 AA Point per rank, 10 ranks)
Planar Power 5 (2 AA Points per rank, 5 ranks)

PoP Ability: Each ability listed here has it's own level requirement. Many are 62+. There is no title gained for spending points in this catergory.

Here are some typical AA Choices for the "PoP Ability" Catergory:

Shroud of Stealth (6 AA Points)
Ferocity 3 (3 AA Points per rank, 3 ranks)
Fury of the Ages 3 (3 AA Points per rank, 3 ranks - prequisite of Combat Fury 3 in "Archtype")
Lightning Reflexes 5 (3 AA Points per rank?, 5 ranks - prequisite of Combat Agility 3 in "Archtype")
Innate Defense (3 AA Points per rank?, 5 ranks - prequisite of Combat Stability 3 in "Archtype")
Nimble Evasion (1 AA Point per rank, 5 ranks)
Hastened Stealth (3 AA Points per rank, 3 ranks)



Edited by: reincarrn8ed at: 3/10/03 6:04:14 pm

[EZ_shortynickel]

very nice guide Shortynickels - 59 - Rogue
My Stuff

Lilfroggie - 10 - Shaman
Lilfroggie's gear

[Aidden]

Thanks. Great Guide...

Posted

[EZ_KayleighDrake]

Some corrections:

Quote:Poison Mastery 3 (3/6/9?) (18 AA Points total?)

I might argue that this is hardly typical. A level or two at most is more than sufficient.


Quote:PoP Ability: Level 63?+ needed. There is no title gained for spending points in this catergory.

Each of the abilities has its own level requirement. It's not 63+.

Quote:Lightning Reflexes 5 (3 AA Points per rank?, 5 ranks - prequisite of Combat Agility 3 in "Archtype"?)

Correct - CA 3 is required.

Quote:Flash of Steel (3 AA Points per rank?, 3 ranks - prequisite of Combat Stability 3 in "Archtype"?)

I think you have something wrong here. I'm guessing you mean Innate Defense, not Flash of Steel. Flash of steel is an extension (I think) of the double riposte thing, and is silly. If you did mean innate defense, then yes, CS3 is required.


Overally it's fine but I think the real thing that people are looking for is what order they might want to spend them in, and that's something your guide seems to completely omit. Of course there are always individual priorities, but you didn't even go so far as to say "Get RunSpeed 3 first". I think you could add some info on the relative value of the various things, and let people have their personal preferences dictate from there.



Osprey
Deceiver
Five Rings

[EZ_reincarrn8ed]

Thank you for the corrections, KayleighDrake. I added them in. Hopefully the site will be updated soon with these corrections made. Sorry for the mis-leading info -- namely, for the Innate Defense / Flash of Steel mix up.

Also, for the 'PoP Ability' level requirement(s) mix up. You are correct, they are not all level 63+ as I originally stated. I'd like to replace that with: "Each ability listed here has it's own level requirement. Many are 62+."

As far as keeping direct guide "completely omit" of the order to spend the AAs in.... I believe my guide takes the 'most popular' AAs that Rogues get, and lists them as a sort of 'loose' guide to follow, allowing the individual to pick and choose as they please. It would be too conterversal, in my opinion, to make a guide with a 'strict' outline (i.e., "spend points in this ability first").... But my guide did give an example of two "plans" one might choose to follow, so it's not "completely omit" of order:

Quote:Being a damage dealer, many Rogues set the goal to max out the offensive AAs first (6 AAs in General + Combat Fury 3, Ambidexterity, Ferocity 3, Fury of the Ages 3) before moving on to the Defensive / HP-boosting AAs. However, keep in mind this is only one of many plans. For instance, your plan might be to get a few HP boosting AAs, before going on to spend into the offensive AAs. There are many options.


Again, thank you for your corrections.

Edited by: reincarrn8ed at: 3/10/03 6:03:09 pm

[EZ_Elethi]

I was wondering if we could stick the threads about leveling at the top of the page also? Maybe link to them with one thread. We could keep them up for a while, before moving them to the library?

I'm not sure how all of this works, but I think those threads are a great idea, and it'd be a waste to let them sink into the depths of the board.

[EZ_Assling Hero]

I will have to argue that the innate stat AA are useful at all, stats can be easily max'ed with buffs and lung capacity can be easily taken care of with an EB item rather than 3AA points.
----------
Best AA
Run
Escape
Chaotic Stab
SoS
----------
Better AA
Regen
Physical Enchancement
(offense)
CF
Ambidexterity
Ferocity
Fury of the Ages
(defense)
CS
CA
ND
Double Riposte
Lightning Reflexes
Innate Defense
Flash of Steel
----------
Good AA
Planar Power
Ingenuity
Hastened Stealth
Hastened Exit
Nimble Evasion
----------
Okay AA
First Aid
Metabolism
Finishing Blow
Natural Healing
Coup de Grace Herodi - Rogue

[EZ_AddoPovar]

Herodi values double riposte/flash of steel and chaotic stab higher than I would, and I am still a pretty defense-oriented rogue.

I see what you meant about not wanting to post any definite ordering of skills, because there are some which people won't agree on, but I think there are some which are just too good to allow those who seek the aid of the guide to possibly miss out on.

Run 3 and Shroud of Stealth are my best candidates for those skills. The rest may vary based on personal preference.

[EZ_schuleta]

Rogue creation guide:

EQ Character Statistics

Stats in everquest for the most part make very little impact on the game unitl you start talking about raising a stat 50 points or more. Below is a list of the stats and what is generally accepted to be their impact on the game.

STRENGTH: Directly affects how much you character can carry without being encumbered. When encumbered, the character's movement rate decreases, as well as lowering the characters agility which directly affects Armor Class in a negative manner.

Strength also affects a characters ATK or attack rating. Strength is a secondary statistic when using the Smithing trade skill. If the character's strength is higher than their Intelligence or Wisdom, it is used to determine how frequently the character increases in skill while smithing.

Strength also affects the maximum damage output for melee damage. Here are the formulas to figure out max damage (source is Monkly-Business):

[MAXIMUM DAMAGE; PRIMARY; 1HB/1HS/Piercing]

1.) DamageBonus = (Level - 25) / 3
* Damage Bonuses are always rounded down (ie, 7.65 = 7) (also cannot be lower than 0)
2.) MaximumDamage = WeaponDamage * ((Strength + WeaponSkill) / 100) + DamageBonus

[MAXIMUM DAMAGE; OFFHAND]

1.) MaximumDamage = WeaponDamage * ((Strength + WeaponSkill) / 100)

There is a damage cap until 10th level of 21, and until 20th level of 31 (not applicable to backstab damage however). I put these formulas in here to show the relation of Strength to maxdamage. As you can see the most important factor will be weapon skill. Up until the point where Strength + WeaponSkill > 200, I believe max damage will always be WeaponDamage * 2 + 1 not to exceed the current damage cap that your character may be under.

Strength is an important attribute for Rogues. A rogue's primary role in a group throughout his career is to deal damage. That being said, it is also one of the easiest (if not the easiest) stat to raise with equipment.

STAMINA: Directly affects the amount of Hit Points a character has. At the higer levels (60+) each point of stamina gives an additional 4 hit points for a Rogue. Stamina also affects how long the character can hold their breath underwater before they begin to drown. Stamina directly affects how quickly the character's stamina bar decreases (and regenerates) from strenuous activity such as swimming, or combat. If the stamina bar is empty, attack speed will slow down if the character's Stamina is below the score of 100.

Stamina is an important stat for Rogues for two reasons, first you can never have too many hit points. Secondly, as a Rogue you can never afford to have your attack rate decrease. Getting the character's base stamina as close to or above 100 at character creation should be a priority.

AGILITY: Directly affects the character's armor class. Agility also affects how quickly the character learns defensive skills like Defense, Dodge or Parry.

Agility would seem to be one of the most important stats for a Rogue. Yet for some reason it has very little bearing on the game of everquest. There is one crucial number to maintain when it comes to Agility, keep it above 75. If it slips below 75 (from spells or being encumbered) you will lose Armor Class dramatically. While one would hope that raising Agility would help in opposite way, it's affect is so miniscule that it is hard to notice, on average it increases AC by one point for every 2-3 points of agility. When your character at higher levels has an AC of 1000+, a few points of AC makes very little difference.

DEXTERITY: Affects how quickly a character learns offensive melee skills, like Offense, 1-Handed Slashing, Piercing, etc.

Dexterity also affects how often a character can make a proc'ing weapon, proc. Proc meaning process. Certain weapons in everquest have effects on them that go off in combat circumstances. An example would be the Short Sword of the Ykesha. Every time a character swings the weapon (as long as they are 37th level or higher) it has a chance to proc. The effect is a 75 point Direct Damage spell. Increased dexterity increases the chance of this type of weapon proc'ing. The only noticeable changes in this frequency come after a significant jump (50-75 points) in dexterity.

Dexterity also affects how quickly a character gains skill in the tradeskill Fletching if their dexterity is higher than their Intelligence and Wisdom.

Dexterity is another one of the stats that I thought would be crucial for a Rogue. Unfortunately like Agility, it has very little impact on the game of everquest. The reason that I think agility and dexterity having little impact is unfortunate is because most of the Rogue races start out with pretty decent scores in these two abilities. While only a few have good scores in the stats that actually do matter, strength and stamina.

INTELLIGENCE: Directly affects the size of an intelligence caster's mana pool. Affects how frequently a character gains skills with non-combat related skills like trade skills, if it is higher than the character's wisdom.

Intelligence does not help a Rogue very much, unless he plans to be an avid tradeskiller.

WISDOM: Directly affects the size of a priest type caster's (Druid, Cleric, Shaman) mana pool. If higher than the character's intelligence, it affects how quickly the character gains skill in non-combat related skills.

Like Intelligence, a high wisdom score is of little use to a Rogue.

CHARISMA: Directly affects the prices an NPC merchant is willing to buy items for from a character as well as how much it will cost a character to buy items from the merchant.

Charisma is not an important stat for a Rogue, and can be raised to a high enough level to make a difference with merchants with items that are not hard to come by.

RECOMMENDED STARTING STATS

Now that we have an understanding of what the different stats do in everquest, here are some recommendations for starting point distribution for the different races. All Rogues start off with 30 discretionary points to spend. I will present between one or two options for starting stats. The first one is race's base stats, the second is my recommendation, and some will have an optional choice.

Race* * * * * * * * STR* * * * STA* * * * AGI* * * * DEX* * * * INT* * * * WIS* * * * CHA
Barbarian (Bse)* * * * 103* * * * 95* * * * 92* * * * 80* * * * 60* * * * 70* * * * 55
Barbarian (Rec)* * * * 108* * * * 120* * * * 92* * * * 80* * * * 60* * * * 70* * * * 55* * * * <-- +5 to STR, +25 to STA
Barbarian (Opt)* * * * 128* * * * 100* * * * 92* * * * 80* * * * 60* * * * 70* * * * 55* * * * <-- +25 to STR, +5 to STA

Dark Elf (Bse)* * * * 60* * * * 65* * * * 100* * * * 85* * * * 99* * * * 83* * * * 60
Dark Elf (Rec)* * * * 65* * * * 90* * * * 100* * * * 85* * * * 99* * * * 83* * * * 60* * * * <-- +5 to STR, +25 to STA

Dwarf (Bse)* * * * 90* * * * 90* * * * 80* * * * 100* * * * 60* * * * 83* * * * 45
Dwarf (Rec)* * * * 95* * * * 115* * * * 80* * * * 100* * * * 60* * * * 83* * * * 45* * * * <-- +5 to STR, +25 to STA
Dwarf (Opt)* * * * 110* * * * 100* * * * 80* * * * 100* * * * 60* * * * 83* * * * 45* * * * <-- +20 to STR, +10 to STA

Gnome (Bse)* * * * 60* * * * 70* * * * 95* * * * 95* * * * 98* * * * 67* * * * 60
Gnome (Rec)* * * * 65* * * * 95* * * * 95* * * * 95* * * * 98* * * * 67* * * * 60* * * * <-- +5 to STR, +25 to STA

Half-Elf (Bse)* * * * 70* * * * 70* * * * 100* * * * 95* * * * 75* * * * 60* * * * 75
Half-Elf (Rec)* * * * 75* * * * 95* * * * 100* * * * 95* * * * 75* * * * 60* * * * 75* * * * <-- +5 to STR, +25 to STA

Race* * * * * * * * STR* * * * STA* * * * AGI* * * * DEX* * * * INT* * * * WIS* * * * CHA
Halfling (Bse)* * * * 70* * * * 75* * * * 105* * * * 100* * * * 67* * * * 80* * * * 50
Halfling (Rec)* * * * 75* * * * 100* * * * 105* * * * 100* * * * 67* * * * 80* * * * 50* * * * <-- +5 to STR, +25 to STA

Human (Bse)* * * * 75* * * * 75* * * * 85* * * * 85* * * * 75* * * * 75* * * * 75
Human (Rec)* * * * 80* * * * 100* * * * 85* * * * 85* * * * 75* * * * 75* * * * 75* * * * <-- +5 to STR, +25 to STA

Vah Shir (Bse)* * * * 90* * * * 75* * * * 100* * * * 80* * * * 65* * * * 70* * * * 65
Vah Shir (Rec)* * * * 95* * * * 100* * * * 100* * * * 80* * * * 65* * * * 70* * * * 65* * * * <-- +5 to STR, +25 to STA

Wood Elf (Bse)* * * * 65* * * * 65* * * * 105* * * * 90* * * * 75* * * * 80* * * * 75
Wood Elf (Rec)* * * * 70* * * * 90* * * * 105* * * * 90* * * * 75* * * * 80* * * * 75* * * * <-- +5 to STR, +25 to STA



Barbarians and dwarves get the optional setups because they are the only two races that can raise their stamina above the magical number of 100.

There are other differences between the races.

Barbarians have a +10 to their Cold resistance, and the ability to Slam opponents. Slam is like the Bash skill that Warriors, Paladins and Shadowknights get. It is on a 6 second timer and is basically an extra attack. It never deals out more than 1 point of damage for a Rogue, and can never be raised above the skill of 1. It has a very small chance of stunning your opponent and can interrupt spell casters. Barbarians also have a small experience penalty and no night vision. The great stats and to a lesser degree the slam ability make Barbarian a very popular choice.

Dark Elves get a base skill of 50 in Hide. It cannot increase until the Rogue is 10th level or higher. They also have Ultravision.

Dwarves get a base skill of 50 in Sense Heading. Like Dark Elves with the Hide skill, this cannot increase above 50 until they are 10th level or higher. They also get a +5 bonus to Poison and Magic Resistance. Can't overlook the tuck and roll graphic when jumping for the pre-Luclin graphics. Dwarves get Infravision.

All Gnomes get the Tinkering tradeskill. It starts out at 50 but cannot be raised until the Gnome is 16th level. Gnomes get Infravision.

Half-Elves get Infravision.

Halflings get an experience point bonus. They also start out with a base skill of 50 in Sneak and Hide. Like Dark Elves, these cannot be raised until the character is 10th level or higher. They also get a +5 bonus to poison and disease resistance. Halflings get Infravision. The experience bonus alone, makes a Halfling a very popular choice.

Humans get nothing, and have very poor night vision.

Vah Shir get a base Safe Fall skill of 50 and Infravision. They have a experience penalty like the Barbarians, and eat food more quickly.

Wood Elves are the only Race of Rogue that can Forage, the skill starts at 50 and can never be raised. Like Dark Elves and Halflings they also start out with a skill of 50 in Hide. Wood Elves also get Infravision.

As far as faction goes, the only race that will have any significant problems are Dark Elves. Everyone else should have pretty decent faction across the board, except when it comes to Dark Elves, Trolls and Ogres. With those three races, Dark Elves have decent faction.

I cannot recommend one race over another. When it comes right down to it, pick the one you think looks the coolest, or is closest to what you have in mind for your Rogue. Some people may say that Dark Elves are the worst choice, due to the fact that they have the worst stats, and once you can Sneak and Hide, you can conceivably get a Mask of Deception with ease which allows a Rogue to cast Illusion: Dark Elf once the Rogue is 15th level. While that may be true, a Dark Elf looks really cool all the time. (Barbarians in the Dark Elf form lose the ability to Slam).



Edited by: schuleta at: 4/22/03 5:09:37 pm

[PsiKoTicK]

Aidden, couple questions. I was thinking about doing the pickpocket guide or sneak/hide guide, but I was confused about the info you would like in it. Do you just want "HOW TO: Sneak and Hide" and "HOW TO: Pickpocket" or would you like in depth, "this creature can be pickpocketed, this cannot"... (beyond the basic "humanoid, 5 levels lower, etc, etc)

Give me some info, and I'll get to work... gotta have SOMEthing to do while I'm stuck at my real job.. :X Veteran Kakarat Doomstalker
Barbarian Assassin
Safehouse Warden of Torvonnilous
Moderator of Space Dracula's Board!


"I'll be fine, I have safe fall." LOADING, PLEASE WAIT...
"Heal the tanks, they aren't even hitting me." LOADING, PLEASE WAIT....
Wonder why I die so much... :)

[EZ_Durden]

Aidden, A few changes were made from the last version you posted at the main website.

High End Rogue Guide.
Baron Durden DarkpointGentleman AssassinRodcet NifeTul Acharn[/b]

[EZ_Finneus]

I posted this up answering someone in the Back Alley and maybe it would be useful in general since I don't see one in the guide section. Modified slightly from the post I made for my guild's boards:

Sense and Disarm Trap FAQ

There are 2 skills dealing with traps..Detect Trap and Disarm Trap. You can't disarm until you've detected..with an exception I'll mention in a bit. Both skills work with a hotkey and are on timers of 10 seconds or so. In order to disarm or detect you need line of sight to the trap.

Detect has a fairly short range..you need to creep up close on a trap to detect it. You detect the closest trap to you and are faced in the direction of it, so if there are 2 traps close together and you want to target the further one you need to manuver so that you get closer to the one you want. Once you've detected a trap it becomes "targeted" for the disarm skill. You don't need to redectect each time..just get the one you want once and thats it. This targeted trap will remain targeted until you detect a different trap, you zone, or the trap despawns, even if you move out of range.

Disarm has a much longer range but you still need line of sight. In the halls we've been dealing with on the AL and HP you can often back all the way into the buffing/fighting room and still have LoS and be in range to disarm. Doors do not block LoS but walls do. What this all means is you can move into a hall, detect a trap and move back to the safety of the room and continue to disarm it if the trap is still in LoS. You can help with fighting, ask for buffs etc and keep hitting disarm when it ungreys to keep the trap down. You DO NOT need to be facing the trap to do this..LoS is between your centerpoint and the trap.

Often on initially creeping up on close together traps you'll get one detected and disarmed but the other will go off on you. When we work in multi rogue teams thats the time the second rogue should move in to find the second target and disarm it. Once they're all targeted and disarmed we get uncursed/unpoisoned and return to work with the traps obtained still targeted.

Now for that exception to using a hotkey to disarm. Before traps were revamped the only ones in the game were things like the crusher in SolB or pendulums in SolA and other places. Those of us around back then that bothered, raised our disarm skills by "disarming" those "traps". The way that was done is by simply clicking on them with your mouse..that stops the motion of whatever trap you click. The faster you click the more chances at a skillup. Guess what? Apparently that still works to raise the skill..so if you aren't maxed there's no need to wait on those 10 second hotkey refreshes..just go find an old world trap and spam click it.

200 is the cap for both detect traps and disarm traps. As for raising the detect skill, treat it exactly like sense heading..just hit it everytime it ungreys till you max it. Preferably somewhere with no traps nearby otherwise you'll keep getting pointed towards whatever trap is in range of you.

Finneus Fingers

Karana

[EZ_Konjunktion]

Would there be any need for an updated PvP guide? Much has changed since when Filash retired.

A guide I could write could either be about Rallos Zek itself, the rogue, or the Rogue on Rallos Zek... not just fighting but levelling, grouping, guilding and surviving as well.

-Junk

[EZ_Finneus]

Bump.

One of the lost sticky threads. Finneus Fingers

Karana

[EZ_Diabalein Avidyia]

Finneus, there is a WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY easier method for raiseing detect/disarm,

make a macro with the following skills
/do # sense heading
/do # disarm traps
/do # sense traps
(optional) /loc

now place this in say slot 10 on your hotkeys, now map your keyboards hotkey 10 to your left turn arrow.

grats you never have to go anywhere or do anything and your skills are maxed just by walking around doing the usual stuff

[EZ_shortynickel]

that is how i raised my skills diabalein Shortynickels - 65 - Rogue

Real woodelf porn here!

[EZ_Eldritch Soulpyre]

is their a skill cap list thats updated?

[EZ_Laetcya]

I'll apologize from the start as I'm sure this is a repeat request. However after skimming all 20 pages and not finding much on my particular question I thought I'd just try asking.

I'm a level 26 Rogue And I'm not at all sure where to go to hunt. I've been hunting PC for a while but I think it's time to move on. So, any advice you could give would be very much appreciated!

Taelor

[EZ_Bedalin]

the "high end rogue guide" at
pub146.ezboard.com/fthesa...7935.topic
is no longer available, anyone kept a copy?
Please i would want to see it a last time it was one of the best guide i ever saw for rog

Thx Bedalin Coeurvaillant cavalier grand maître forgeron

[EZ_Sunar Frostfury]

Bump, would enjoy seeing a copy of that guide as well. Thanks.

[EZ_Durden]

I did keep a copy of the High End Rogue Guide on my hard drive (thankfully I didn't delete it).

Here it is:

Ok, so you’ve read the “Mid Level Equipment Guild” and you no longer think it applies to you. So, you want bigger and better. You want to take a step to the next level, be UBER rogue like the rest in the Ring. Well, here are some of the things you should be looking for.

Note: New items come into the game every patch (almost) and every expansion. These are just suggestions, and can be outdated rather quickly. Also, this guide is going to be set up very differently then the mid level guide. This guide is for items that will generally help you be a better rogue.

At the higher end, to do good/great damage it’s all about Attack Rating AND living long enough to survive any encounter (Hp). It does your guild no good if you can average 200 DPS, but can’t make it past the first 30 seconds of a fight because you didn’t have enough Hp to .. take a few hits until evade worked, cleric got the CH off, your resists were too low, etc. As we all know Strength directly adds to Attack Rating. But your strength caps at 255 (unless you're lvl61+, then it maxes at 255 + ((current lvl - 60)*5)). Once you get your strength up in the 180 range, a Harnessing of Spirit or Focus will put you up near the 255 cap. So having 255 strength on your own is silly (you wont be raiding solo, so don’t argue this point, you WILL have a HoS or Focus). It would be better too have a strength around 180 and stamina around 180 too, rather then strength at 245 and stamina at 120. So with that in mind, let’s look at what an UBER rogue should/would want.

General Info:
1) A no brainer, Ragebringer! If you are lvl50+, and don’t have a Temple of Veeshan, Tunare, Ssraeshza Temple, Vex Thall, or Tier 3-4 PoP No Drop peircer, this should be in your main hand (or off hand if you were able to buy a better peircer). The Seething Fury is a GREAT buff, and many a rogue that has some of those no drop weapons above wished they could put the Ragebringer in their Ranged slots.

2) Shrunken Goblin Skull Earring’s are expensive and a PAIN to camp, but in the higher end game it’s all about Attack Rating (and you want to be UBER don’t you?). There will be times that you wont have a Ranger for Call of the Tunare or a Paladins Brells, so this is the next best thing. And best of all it’s a targetless self buff, which are CRITICAL for any raid where the mob casts an AE debuff.

3) Aura of Battle the next must have. Any item that has Aura of Battle that you can afford, or quest will do. Different items with Aura of Battle will stack also (see below for stacking information). So whatever you get (Belt of Dwarf Slaying, Belt of the Great Turtle, Spirit Wracked Chords, etc.) will work, and they will stack giving you a nice little buff and a little regeneration. The max worn regen you can have is 30 hp per tick.

4) This should be a no brainer, but skills should not be ignored, all skills. Defense is free AC, Peircing and Offense is free Attack (only your main hand effects Attack, even if you have a skill of 0 for the weapon type in your off hand), and Backstab is what we all live for. These skills should always be capped.

5) Armor is great, but at this level, every piece of armor you have should give you not only healthy AC, but stats, Hp and a few resists (more on the specific armor later). As a rule of thumb, thanks to our melee brethren at Steel Warriors, it was determined that there is an AC soft cap around 1100-1150. What’s an AC soft cap? This is the point of marginal returns for AC, for every point of AC you add above this “soft cap” you are mitigating less damage then you did when you added the last point of AC. Let’s look at the example below (this example is to show the idea of marginal returns, not hard data from a parsed log):

AC = 1000 DPS taken 80
AC = 1050 DPS taken 70
AC = 1100 DPS taken 62
AC = 1150 DPS taken 58
AC = 1200 DPS taken 55

Again, those are just for illustration. But the fact is that once you cross AC 1100~1150, your might be better off concentrating resources elsewhere (Hp, Sta, Resists). True tank classes (Warriors, Paladins and Shadow Knights) will normally have AC up around 1500+ in UBER guilds. This is for two reasons: The armor that they get has INCREDIBLE AC to begin with and it’s also useful for the tank to be taking even 1 dps less then they would if they had an extra 25 hp.

6) If your normal armor doesn’t net you 100+ for each resist, have and CARRY WITH YOU AT ALL TIMES a resist kit. In this kit you should have all the armor and items that you need to self boost ALL your resist over 100+ simultaneously. You never know when a raid will be called, and UBER guilds HATE having to wait for people that need to run to the bank to get their resist gear.

7) You never know when you’re going to need it, but an Endure Breathing item is also VERY highly suggested. There are a few items you can buy for around 2-3kpp (Turtle Bone Ring, Fishbone Earring), but there is a Quested item out of Katta you can get (even if KoS, with the rogue handshake), which would be for the Amulet of the Grey Wastes.

8) Another item that should be obtained is any See Invisible item. It’s usefulness is immeasurable, especially when the puller in City of Mist is standing right next to you when he says over group “Waiting for the rogue to get here to open the door for the next Reaver pull”, only to unhide and scare his pants off. A See Invisible item is pretty much a necessity for any class that can’t cast See Invis on themselves. Note: Some mobs DO invis themselves, so having See Invis up at all times (especially as a puller which many of us enjoy doing) is essential. Some items to look for are; Fingerbone Hoop, Choker of Majdd, Bracer of the Hidden, Ravenscale Mask and any item with True/Plain Sight.

9) Know where you're going. If you are making your first trip to a zone for a Raid, consult those that may know more about the zone, or how to get there (either in-game, here at the Safehouse or at your guild website). Uber guilds HATE waiting 30 minutes for some lvl55 first timer to try and figure out his way across Siren's Grotto by himself (just ask Wix). Print maps, guides and anything else you may want and have them handy (printing my not be as necessary now that you can window EQ).

ARMOR:

You should start by getting Allied faction with your guilds Velious Quest Armor (ie if your guild is on Claws of Veesah faction, you should be Ally to Claws of Veesah). Some are in big enough guilds that they have the best pieces from each set (Thurgadin Legs, Kael Arms and Skyshrine Breastplate). This is A LOT of work, so don’t expect your guild to help you. Your regular group of friends could/would, but don’t think that your guild will automatically get you Thurgadin Legs because they offer more Sta then the other two sets. That will be up to you to do on your own (most likely). Generally, accept and loot all Quest Armor pieces that you feel you would use (some rogues don’t like any of the Velious Bracers and prefer to use other options, some use one Velious Quest bracer for a consistent look and some use both). Know your guilds loot policy. If you pass on an item on one raid (let’s say Kael Boots), did you forfeit any rights to future drops for Kael Boots? The best time to really work on your Velious Quest Armor is lvl55+ as most guilds raid different parts of Temple of Veshan for the Quest Armor drops. Those under lvl55 normally are excluded from these raids as the AE from many of these mobs would be unresisted, draining healer mana by heals and rez’s.

If you don’t want to spend time on questing the Velious Armors, you can take the more expensive route and purchase some nice player made armor. The best player made armors are Tae Ew Chain, Night Terror Chain and Hurricane Chain. Plan on spending quite a bit of money are these have a trivial greater then 250.

Now that we’ve established a base, the next step up is would be the rare drops in Luclin or PoP.


ATTACK, Vengeance and Aura of Battle:

You can have up to 250 points of attack directly attributable to worn buffs.
What counts towards this cap?
1) Vengeance items: Venganence items have a rating system if you will. Vengeance I items add 5 points of attack, Vengeance II items add 10 points of attack, etc. So each level of Vengeance adds 5 points of attack.
2)* * * * Aura items: There are currently 4 types of Aura Items: 1- Aura of Battle (adds +10 Attack and +2 Regen), 2 – Aura of Daring (adds +20 Attack and +3 Regen), 3 – Aura of Bravery (adds +30 Attack and +4 Regen) and, 4 – Aura of Valor (adds +40 Attack and +5 Regen). All WORN Aura items stack with each other. If you have a CASTABLE Aura item, it will stack with the WORN items, but you can NOT stack MULTIPLE CASTABLE Aura items (as you will only get one buff icon).
3) Shrunken Goblin Skull Earring: This item has several stacking issues of it’s own (Grim Aura and Strength of Tunare/Nature will not stack). But the 10 points of attack add to the cap (+10 attack is as good as an Aura of Battle item, which is one reason this little trinket is 5kpp and in a bag of even many of the Deceivers).
4) Primal: The 100 points of attack gained by a primal proc is counted towards the cap of 250.
5) Ragebringer: Adds 40 raw attack, which is counted towards the cap of 250.

Spells that are cast on you to increase your attack, do not count towards a cap. All stackable shaman, enchanter, necro and shadow knight attack buffs will raise your attack rating independent of your worn/self buffing attack cap.

WEAPONS:

As you can see now, Ragebringer is a curse as well as a gift. With it many rogues obtain their first damage 15 poker, attack buff and 40% haste item. To replace it in the main hand is difficult, as the majority of the rogue community will never be able to have a chance to loot something with a better ratio while not giving up too much in the way of backstabs. But to completely bag, or bank, the Ragebringer is a even more difficult. To effectively bag your Ragebringer, you need to replace your haste with another 40% haste item, obtain a weapon that has a better damage ratio and replace 40 points of attack.

Current guideline to bagging your Ragebringer, if you have the following:

41% haste
15/20 or better ratio for main hand, 13/20 for off
1500+ ATK for non-Luclin encounters
1600+ ATK for Luclin encounters

If you have all of the above, then you can bag your epic.

Backstab mods: Hands down, if any rogue has a chance to loot a weapon with a backstab skill modification, you HAVE to loot it. It would be an upgrade well worth the price paid, as backstab caps at 225, so there is PLENTY of room under the hard skill cap (hard cap is 252 for Backstab).


There are tons of weapons around, but it’s generally accepted that the best damaging peircer (especially if it has a backstab mod) should always be main hand. For the off-hand, use the best damage delay weapon you have (Yes, Ratio is KING). If two weapons have the same ratio, many rogues would suggest using the one with the GREATER delay – to help reduce the how quickly you generate aggro.

ATTACK BUFF CHECKLIST (Thanks Qutse):

1) Do I have max Str? Ask Shaman for Focus/Harness of Spirit, or Druid/Ranger for their best Str buff.
2) Do I have Strength of Tunare? Turn off Brells Mountainous Barrier and ask ranger for Strength of Tunare.
3) If your fighting a mini-boss (or similar) and the ranger doesn’t have Strength of Tunare, get Force of Nature and Strength of Nature.
4) Do I have Call of the Predator? Ask ranger for Call of the Predator.
5) Do I have Beastmaster Spiritual Strength attack buff? Ask beastmaster for Spiritual Strength.
6) Does the Enchanter have share illusion? Ask the chanter to share werewolf illusion (will not stack with a Ranger’s SPIRIT of the Predator).
7) Does Enchanter have Speed of Vallon? Ask enchanter for Speed of Vallon.
8) Is the Shadow Knight using Torrent of Hate? Ask the shadow knight to use torrent of hate.
9) Is the Necromancer using Crippling Claudification? Ask the necromancer to use Crippling Claudification.
10) Do I have Spirit of Bih’Li? Ask the shaman to cast Bih’Li.
11) Do I have share greater wolf form? Ask the druid for share greater wolf form (chastise the druid for not having a level 49 buff).
12) Do I have haste? Get haste...
13) Is there a bard in the group? Request that the bard be put in your group.

HIT POINTS

So why all the stress and importance on Hit Points? For the simple reason that Hit Points are never wasted. The idea of marginal returns on AC was already discussed, so I wont drag it back up here. Many rogues like having stat boosting armors, but once you achieve lvl55+ chances are that wherever you go, a buffer will be there. Strength is very important to a Rogue and the damage we can deal (it’s been shown that for every +10Str increase DPS by 1%). Any lvl53+ ranger can cast a +35 Str buff, and that’s the worst of the Str buffs. Chances are that there will be a Druid (lvl55+ can cast a +42 Str buff), a Beastlord (lvl55+ can cast a +34 Str buff) or Shaman (which will be able to HoS you for +67Str). On any given raid you will attend, there will be a Shaman there casting at LEAST a focus on all melee’s (which is again a +67Str buff), so many rogues try to maintain a Str of 188 (188+67=255 the cap Pre-Planes of Power). After reaching this platue of 185+ Str many rogues choose to accumulate +Hp items.

Again, the main reason that melee’s LOVE Hp is that there is no cap on Hp (or at least no cap has been found). You can add as much as you can, and it ALL counts. While Hp may not add an increase in DPS (which is why we get asked to groups), it does allow us to LIVE longer in a situation where we are taking damage (and we do take damage from time to time either through AE or direct melee). There is no way to to put a percentage on survivability for every +100Hp you add, but the amount of tanking even rogues can do with more Hp is noticeable. And your healer will notice it too. The less they cast the Incomplete Heal lines (I’m including clerics here too since their CH has a cap on the amount of Hp it will heal), the longer they will have mana. And that normally translates to better group/raid survivability.

Insta Cast Buffs:

All the named dragons (Woushi, Doze, etc) all have a dispell AE. It is a MUST that EVERY melee has an insta-click self buffing item. The 3 most common are;
1) 8/9/10th Coldain Ring (Quested in Velious),
2) Shrunken Goblin Skull Earring (drops from Grachnist in WW),
3) Spyglass (made by tinkerers and ONLY LASTS 3 TICKETS), and
4) JBoots (Quested and Out doors ONLY).

These three items are the best you can get for insta-click self buffs. The main reason is that you DON'T have to target yourself to buff, it's a self buff item only, so it will immediately buff you without switching your target. There another item that will work, but you have to target your self before you click it.
5) Bracer of Hidden (drops in LoIO)


These 5 are the most common. Any of the first 4 are the most desired, as I said you don't have to worry about targetting and re-targetting.

The reason that these are SO important is that these AE dispells hit every other tick (or is it every tick?). Putting these buffs in the top two buff spots, should mean that they will get dispelled first. After getting them dispelled, you can just re-click to refresh them, putting them back at the top of the list saving your haste, Aego, resist, regen and any other buffs from going bye-bye.

Get out of Jail Free Card:

Sounds silly, but you NEVER know when you'll LD from a raid and not be able to get back on. Sometimes late at night, you might find yourself in a group grind deep in BoT when you realize that the group doesn't have a druid or wizard. This is where your "Get out of Jail free card" comes in. You should ALWAYS carry one of the following on you AT ALL TIMES:

1) Vial of Velium Vapors (Casting Time: 9 seconds) - Quested in Thurgadin. Can be completed by those NOT on Coldain faction, by using sneak (to get the Velium Purifier from Frundle Frenkler). The TL drops you on the Thurgadin Bridge OUTSIDE the city area, so it's an easy stroll to the Great Divide zone.

Difficulty: Once Pottery is over 122, the Velium Vials are Trivial. Rather easy to collec the ingredient for the Vial of Velium Vapors in Velketor's Labyrinth or Crystal Caverns.

2) Worker Sledgemallet (Casting Time: Weapon Proc) - Quested in The Overthere. Must have higher then Indifferent faction to complete quest. The hammer is a 2hb weapon that proc's a TL to The Overthere (which conveniently has a PoK book right outside the outpost). Good races need to be aware that they MAY have to kill a green con skeleton everytime they use the hammer.

Difficulty: Only problem with the hammer is building the faction to get it. As a DE Agnostic rogue it took me a few level of hunting in OT to hand in enough Sarnak Warbraids to be able to complete this Quest. Good races may have an initial problem of being kill on sight to the outpost, even in DE form.

3) Lizard Blood Potion (Casting Time: Instant) - These babies drop in Ferrott off the Thul Tae Ew Cenobite's. The Thul Tae Ew Cenobite spawns at the top of the Lizard Pyramid to the right of the ramp leading up to the Cazic Thul zone line (the Pyramid to the West). The Cazic Gate Potion drops you in the middle of the Cazic Thule maze, you WILL want a map printed before you use your first Cazic Gate Potion. The top of the wizard pyramid you port into should be safe, but the maze is full of some very mean lizards.

Difficulty: Any rogue lvl50+ shouldn't have a problem camping a potion or two. May get boring as the Thul Tae Ew Cenobite is a rare spawn, but you could collect a pair of Ravenscale Boots (the boots are the Thul Tae Ew Cenobite's rare drop, the Gate Potion is the common drop). The Lizard Blood Potions ARE NOT lore, so it may be in your best interest to camp more then 1 each time you head there.

4) Shaman Gate Potions (Casting Time: Varies) - The proper names are;
Potion of the Swamp (Casting Time: 30 Seconds) - TL's you to Innothule Swamp, at the giant Hand with the Shaman Spell vendor.
Potion of the Frost (Casting Time: 30 Seconds) - TL's you to Everfrost Peaks, near the three ice goblin igloos south of Halas.
Potion of the Bone Field (Casting Time: 30 Seconds) - TL's you to Field of Bone, near the stone archway leading to Kaesora.
Potion of the Shadeweaver (Casting Time: 30 Seconds) - TL's you to Shadeweaver's Thicket, at the Shar Vahl zone line.
Gate Potion (Casting Time: 10 Seconds) - Gates player to bind point. Cost is higher the the other four potions, but your casting time is one-third.

Difficulty: These all are shaman made, and the component cost for each potion is around 184-250pp. Bazaar price would probably be in the 300-500pp range for a single port potion, multiply that by 5 or 10 for multiple port potions.

5) Vial of Swirling Smoke (Casting Time: Instant) - This is a non-player vendor/merchant item. It's a instant gate to bind. Cost is about 1kpp EACH.

Difficulty: None, just come up with 1kpp each time you want to buy one.
Edited by: Durden at: 10/3/03 6:28 am

[EZ_wheeto]

i'll add more later, but this is the best i can do for now.

lost dungeons added multiple chests, which may seem like a dream for a rogue, but in order to not exclude other classes from having all the fun, not all chests are openable by rogues.

if you see a chest, leave it until the adventure is done. i can't stress this enough. even though your skills are maxed out, you can still fail on opening chests. rogues can't open the little animated boxes that go from side to side, so just ignore those. after the adventure is won, go to the chest, and tell the group to stay a couple rooms away. rogue chest traps shouldn't have a zonewide effect, and i'll explain how to tell what's what next.

i setup second page of hotkeys simply for opening chests/barrels/coffins/whatever. it goes:

1. /inspect
2. sense traps
3. disarm traps
4. pick locks
5. /open

before ldon, /inspect just shut toggled your ability to inspect other players (which has now been changed to /toggleinspect). now it will inspect the box and tell you what kind of trap it is. you CAN set off the trap just by inspecting it, but you probably won't if you do it just once.

get close to the chest, hit your inspect button. if it doesn't give you a message about some sort of lock, then just walk away. it's not for you. it's a chest only a caster can open, and i don't know any casters that have even bought their trap spells. from my log file on 2 chests/barrels i successfully opened:

"A rather large spider crawls across the lid as you peer over the chest. What appears to be a granite lock holds the lid tightly shut"

"A wooden barrel with several claw marks around the lid. What appears to be a granite lock holds the lid tightly shut"

now we move onto sensing and disarming. hit your sense traps button, and if you get "you do not know if this object is trapped", keep hitting it until you get "you are certain ____ is trapped". if you do NOT get either message on the first attempt, then avoid the chest altogether. you can't disarm it, you can't pick the lock. it's a caster box.

after you get "you are certain...", hit disarm, and you'll get "you have disarmed _____!". i have yet to fail on my first disarm once i know it's a trap, so i'm not sure what the failure message is. you can't disarm a sensed trap, but failure to disarm a sensed trap doesn't mean the trap goes off.

once that's done, hit your pick lock button until it says the chest is open. don't worry about the trap now, it's out of the way. your party will get experience and you can /open the chest and loot it like a corpse. i've had some problems with "you cannot loot this corpse at this time", but camping out and back in fixes this, or the last patch may have fixed it, i haven't been in a dungeon since they patched.

i have yet to get anything worthwhile (aug, weapon, armor) from a chest, but it doesn't hurt to try them out every now and then, who knows what you'll get. i've never had a chest i can open go off on me. when i'm with a party and we see a chest, i will /inspect it, then tell them whether i can open it or not, and if i can, i'll do it afterwards.

hope this helps.

- gimbley mcstab
50th halfling rogue
steel and honor
saryn server.

[EZ_Cholik]

Okay im not sure if this has already been posted. Cause i haven't read all the posts in this thread yet. I just thought i would add something about the Disarm Traps skill. Alot of newer rogues think that in order to raise this skill you need to actually sense a trap but this isn't true. The other day i decided to map disarm traps to my forward key for a while just to see if i could get it to go up and sure enough even though i was getting the "You have not detected any traps" my skill was rising. withen a day or so i got my skill from 1 to 97. . Once i again i am sorry if i am double posting information.

[EZ_Spidor]

I'll back that up. I keep Sense and Disarm mapped to my left/right keys constantly while in a dungeon, so it's constantly looking for and disarming traps. And yes, outside of a dungeon too. You can run around EC and raise both of these skills in this manner.

Downside: when you do sense a trap, you automatically turn toward it. This is annoying while in melee and dancing behind the MOb because the tank keeps knocking it backward. The reason I map it to my left/right, though, is so that I can use my mouse to turn if I need to. If you map one skill to the left and one to the right, you can still disarm traps while no longer sensing them and spinning to face it.

I've capped both skills at 200 now, and capped open locks at 210 (with tinkered gloves to add another 3% on top of that). Because of this, I have several times opened an LDON chest without my group knowing about it until they get the experience and see that I've looted something. It's not as dangerous as they seem to think... just keep in mind that some chests are magically trapped, and need a caster to open them. If you can't tell if it's trapped or not, you might want to leave it for the finger wigglers.

[EZ_Braydaydar]

Anyone have info on where to train lock picking?

[EZ_BoundrFox]

As far as i know you can still do this to train lockpickong..You can max it in about 5 minutes..First of all you have to be able to zone into PoT ... At zone in stand on the table with the book on it...Take out your pick face the doorway out to zone...And click away. .. very easy very quick .. If your not onld enough to get into PoT then there is a door in befallen close to the zone in that you can train on..But this takes ages compared to the PoT trick ...

[EZ_Diabalein Avidyia]

this is a short sweet guide that will save you some pain and suffering over your rogues carreer.

skills you should get the second they are available to you when you level.
sneak
hide
sense traps
disarm traps
Backstab
dodge
safe fall
parry
riposte
disarm
duel wield
intimidation???

for all of the above (exept backstab) run to your trainer and dump 1 training point into the skill. you will use all of these skills as you lvl, sneak and hide you want to hit 100 skill in as soon as possible, once at 100 you no longer fail either.
sense/disarm traps while you wont really have a use for them can be easily skilled up with a macro/turn key.
Backstab, dump every saved point you can into backstab, this skill is your bread and butter and I really cant see any reason not to keep it within 5 points of max at all times, it goes up slowly and you will find its always behind as you lvl if you dont work to keep it up.
Intimidation, this one is really up to you, (arent they all?) if you plan on working the skill then grab it and start practicing, if its one you can wait on to skill it up then dont, the why will be explained shortly.

skills you should NOT spend any points on (until much later)
Apply poison,
Make poison,
pick locks,

the reason I suggest you dont train these skills is simple.
if you train PL at lvl 5 your skill is 5...you dont need to open any locks in this game til probably 46, if you put your first point into PL at 46 your skill is 46, grats 41 free points for a skill you never used anyway.
the same rule for both poison skills, Dont train them until you have a need for them and you will save tons of time and cash with the free points you get for waiting.
so if you dont plan on working make poison til your 50's wait til your 50s to get the skill.

[EZ_araxas]

Rogue useable unlimited illusion items

Droppable:

Iksar Hide Mask (Iksar)
Mask of Obtenebration (Erudite)
Mask of Tinkering (Gnome)
Flayed Barbarian Hide Mask (Barbarian)
Amulet of Necropetence (Skeleton)

Solo-able:

Mask of Deception (Dark Elf)
Burnoose of the Halfbreed (Half Elf)

2-6 playerable:

Dessicated Halfling Mask (Halfling)
Crown of Deceit (Wood Elf)
Guise of the Coercer (High Elf)
Guise of the Hunter (Vah Shir)

Vex Thal:

Veil of Flames (Fire Elemental)
Circlet of Disguise (Human)
Tiny Bone Bracelet (Skeleton)

Plane of Earth:

Ball of Golem Clay (Earth Elemental)

Nerfed:

Guise of the Deceiver (Dark Elf)

[EZ_Xwang]

ok a comment on the dissarm traps thing you DO NOT need to sense them before you disarm them i have dissarm set up as a hotkey that i mash while im fighing to get it up and i have dissarmed traps in ldon that i didnt even know where there lol and you can get skill ups without having traps but they do help lol Xwang Stepinwolf
55 Order of Druid

Tiggerer
54 Rogue and one bad ass buttpoker

[EZ_Xwang]

ok one question where the hell do i find some of these masked i though the gnome and the dwarf were in sleepers and halfbread and darkelf i know them but some of the others i have no idea Xwang Stepinwolf
55 Order of Druid

Tiggerer
54 Rogue and one bad ass buttpoker