View Full Version : DPS! And why don't I have any!?
01-08-04, 05:04 AM
Ok, maybe I've just heard one too many brag-sessions between "ubah" rogues, and maybe my expectations are just too high, but... What the @%#$ can I do to up my DPS?
Obligatory Magello link: www.magelo.com/eq_view_pr...num=893280
Dusted off the parser the other day (which I hadn't looked at in ages) and pulled up the stats for my rogue. Average DPS? ...68.43. Yes, 68.43. I know warriors/knights that top that easily - so my question is, what am I doing wrong?
The details: First off, I spend 80% of my time shammy buffed to max melee stats (except for STA, but eh, whatever). Second, I am an atk addict (Yes... that gobby earring in my bag is there for when I can't get anything better... How dare somone offer to buy it because they needed a "Clicky junk buff!"). Third, despite my addiction to anything that ups my atk, I have a miserable hit rate - 40% of my melee attacks are landing on thin air. (Is this normal? I have no clue - everyone talks about their DPS, no one ever mentions things like this)
I'm debating going to a Goblin Spear of Dread Tidings (Since I have one in the bank on another account) main / Rage offhand, which brings me to another question: How much atk (And subsequent higher hit rate) does it take to make a slower/weaker weapon even out with a faster/harder weapon with less stats?
Overall, I suppose what I'm really asking is what every rogue worth her lockpicks asks herself every day - how can I up my DPS? (And am I really as lacking as I think, or have I just spent too much time getting taunted by my raid guild buddies?) Akael "Blinky" Bayn - 60 levels later, and still a gimp...
01-08-04, 05:36 AM
If you are having a 40% miss rate, then that should mean you are having a 60% hit rate. That seems to be about where one wants to be for a rogue. If you want to increase your chance to-hit, then you need to level up. To-hit is based loosely on your weapon skill and mostly on your comparitive level to a mob. So, if you are fighting red-con mobs all the time, you are going to hit less.
You seem to have a good unbuffed ATK rating, so the other key factor is going to be your weapons. You are still mainhanding your epic, this is your biggest problem. That weapon, while it has awesome stats, is very slow. A 25 delay in your offhand is far too slow. I would considering switching the LDoM to the primary hand. Sure the max BSes will be a little lower, but you should be able to hit quite a bit more often. I suggest trying to find a little bit better damage dagger with the similar delay. Several nice ones drop off of the bosses in Ssra.
Just some thoughts. . .
01-08-04, 05:45 AM
A lot of the DPS relates to what you are killing. Fighting the Ssra snakes is somewhat demotivating for a rogue in regards to DPS, the mobs there have huge mitigation.
It seems that your DPS is around what I recall it being for me around that level and that weaponry. If you're having shammy haste (40-50%) instead of chanter haste, it also explains a bit. Max 100% haste instead of 80% haste gives you 11% higher DPS.
The main factors (not necessarily in order of importance) for DPS are:
- Level (damage tables, level vs. mobs level - not sure if this has any meaning as the attack skills are already at cap at 60), but regardless level 65 > level 63 > level 60 rogue.
- Haste (this should be around capped anyway)
- ATK rating (this factors pretty much, especially when going from ~1200 -> ~1600)
- Backstab modifier (12% modifier capping the stab equals to 1.5 - 2 more damage on the weapon in regards to backstabs, also one would think the skill also helps landing more backstabs)
- Offensive AAs (ferocity, ambidexterity, criticals (eyecandy))
Based on my own parses I'd estimate attack capped, full offensive AA, PoTime weapons using rogues parse over 200 DPS on average basis on normal mobs.
Regularly geared level 65 rogue (using around 15/20 mainhander) with normalish offensive (not maxed) AAs I'd expect to parse around 100-130 DPS on regular PoP exp mobs.
Kalaks Kostaja - the haffer deceiver midnight faery - Erollisi Marr Edited by: Kalaks Fantasia at: 1/8/04 5:46 am
01-08-04, 05:47 AM
60% hit rate is the standard for rogues Tikker Gimblestan
Stuff I Own
01-08-04, 05:49 AM
That sounds about right to me based on your gear/level/AA.
You can look to get more items with +ATK to give yourself a boost - Stanos Boots(Veng 3) and Bracers (Veng 2 - not LORE), stuff from VT, various PoP raid drops with Vengence/Aura of X, LDoN armror with Vengence/Aura augs.
Getting an upgrade to Ragebringer and moving it off hand will help too - can start working on a Malevolent Dirk of Deception from EF LDoN, or try and get a Ssra or BoT dagger. Any of those have BS modifiers and better ratios than epic.
And of course AA - Ferocity, Ambidexterity, CF are the three AA's to get that offer the most DPS increase. Ddarr
Red Rogue of New Dawn Rising
01-08-04, 06:53 AM
At the time I made my parse I did have CF2 and was working on Ferocity (didn't have any yet).
I had just obtained a Legendary Dagger of Might and wanted to see how it would stack up to my Longsword of Freedom (Dmg 20, Dly 29, +8Str, +8Sta, +15Agi, +15Dex, +7 to all resists). I basically wanted to see how the backstab mob and the Vengeance would help. So I did some parsing In PoV (Lvl63 at the time);
Ragebinger/Legendary Dagger of Might = 98DPS (with Vallon, Ranger Buffs and using poison).
Ragebinger/Longsword of Freedom = 125DPS (with the same buffs)
The LDoM just doesn't offer enough damage. The Vengeance is nice, and the backstab mod can only help. But it's not enough if you have a better weapon.
Durden, I know you like your Longsword of Freedom (I liked mine too) but there's no way that small a decrease in ratio could make that kind of difference in the long term. Dropping almost 30% damage isn't going to happen unless you swap out LSoF for a shield or the like.
In theory, the two weapons should be pretty comparable. Your parse is very misleading, there are almost definitely more important factors that contributed to the difference in DPS than changing of the weapon. Your Sister in Arms,
01-08-04, 07:53 AM
Being level 60, that's about right. I was about 60-70dps average until I hit 63, and now at 65 I average around 120-130dps in normal situations. Self-buffed and such, my atk hovers around 1300, but I'm normally between 1450-1650 atk during raids and most groups. On some raids I even eclipse 1700 (I think my highest was 1709).
While that's far from "uber", it's certainly decent. You're on the cusp of some major damage increases, but improving your weapon should be far and above the biggest improvement to your DPS. You need to offhand that epic. If you're in a guild that can raid the BoT towers, hit the lightning and sand towers for Wicked Shank or Gargoyle Talon. If you're into LDoN, get the good dagger from there (name escapes me at the moment), or start getting augments/items that have Vengeance or Aura of Battle on them.
My opinion: You're in line and doing fine.
01-08-04, 08:26 AM
I agree, your parse sounds about right for 60 ... maybe a lil' low but not far off really. I wouldn't get overly concerned. Once you get 65 though you will have gotten 2 huge damage table upgrades (Or is it 3?). I would aim for 90-100ish at 65 with that weapon setup because thats what I remember doing myself. Marauder Koer Poisondirk
Tradeskills total: 1272
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A New Dawn Alliance
01-08-04, 09:54 AM
Jazya, that's what I remember the numbers turning out as. Not trying to hype the Longsword of Freedom at all. I used a 5 min parse while grinding in PoV about 8 months ago. I was pretty shocked that I got a 30DPS difference of the two, but that's what I got.
The only thing I can think of is if I hard accidently disc'ed during my Longsword of Freedom parse. But I consistently got about 110DPS with the Longsword of Freedom at lvl63 without any Ferocity or Ambi AA's, so with the extra Vallon and attack buffs I saw no real need to doubt the Longsword of Freedom parse. Others are saying about 90DPS for the LDoM sounds about right at lvl65 (I was getting higher), so I'm not srue what the problem is.
Hmm, a single 12sec disc over a 5min parse wouldn't do it.
Those weapons are just too close in ratio for a 20dps difference. Could be as simple as using different parsing programs, or simple variance...
Maybe I'll dig mine out of the bank and give a counter-parse I have Ambidex, so that should work in the favor of LSoF, right? Edited by: JazyaVechette at: 1/8/04 9:59 am
EZ_Srath the Claw
01-08-04, 10:44 AM
Your best bet to increase DPS would be to purchase a better weapon . GLadiator's Jereed 15/22 and some stats should work well in main and rage in offhand. On Druzzil its 20k. Its not cheap but surely manageable for a very nice dps boost.
01-08-04, 11:14 AM
-get new weapons (work on the MDoD)
-get LvL 65
-then work on offensive AA's
-Get any attack items (stanos armor)
01-08-04, 02:04 PM
I parsed the last few hours of my level 20 Rogue and got about 65% of hits landing. That is with a Trak Tooth Piercing at a skill of 104, a Centi Short sword with just 36 1HS, Backstab at 56, Dual Wield at 110 and Double Attack at 56
I kind of assumed that Rogues with two or three times my level would land a much higher percentage or is it just that they attempt more hits and do more damage when they hit?
Of course at level 20, ignoring any unfeasibly high parse results, I get an average DPS of about 6.5
01-08-04, 06:25 PM
Quote:I kind of assumed that Rogues with two or three times my level would land a much higher percentage or is it just that they attempt more hits and do more damage when they hit?
Nope, at higher levels our hit % is 59-60% w/o any Time +accuracy gear.
01-09-04, 12:52 AM
60% hit rate is about right for rogues, most melees are around that area. Nice little read over at the steelwarrior forums. Some people did some 7+ straight hour parses there and posted the results. Thread Link Here
01-10-04, 05:04 AM
So the hit accuracy actually drops as you get higher in level?
Both YALP and EQAnalyser say my average for all types of attack since Dec 17th is 67% on target. Most of that is probably solo which I assumed would be worse than being grouped. Even my 1HS is showing 62% accuracy over that period and it is not even half way maxxed.
Perhaps I am using the wrong progs to parse my log. What does everyone else tend to use?
Edited by: roblex at: 1/10/04 10:53 am
01-10-04, 10:49 AM
Anyone have links to a decent parser? I looked up one awhile ago but it said it required dual boxes which is something I don't have at the moment.
01-11-04, 07:15 AM
I had a similar type question a while ago. What exactly are you using to find out your DPS? Some parsers don't give you the true DPS, but the DPS over the entire time you logged including rest time.
Try EQwatcher, it will tell you the DPS for each fight. At level 60 with a similar setup that you have I remeber having a range of 80-130ish DPS per fight in LDoN dungeons.
01-11-04, 11:58 AM
IMO, level is the biggest restriction. Many people don't think there is a big difference between 60 and 65, but there is. Hell, there's a noticeable difference between 64 and 65. Level up as fast as you can and reparse. Edited by: HeebyJeeby at: 1/11/04 12:00 pm
01-12-04, 03:50 AM
I use YALP because it is quick and simple.
I also use EQAnalyser and EQCompanion though I must admit I cannot remember which is which and I am not at my EQ machine
One (probably EQCompanion) allows you to run it on a second machine while you are playing EQ and it will tell you in words when you level up a skill as well as other events you can configure. It also shows you where you are on a map in real-time. You dont *have* to run it on a second box but most of its features are designed with that in mind. I think all three will monitor the log in real-time from a second PC but you dont have to.
All three have different ways of presenting the results of fights. I use them alternately depending on what I am trying to find out.
One of them (EQCompanion or EQAnalyser) also has a neat way of displaying the prices you paid or were offered for items that makes it easy to see which merchants are ripping you off and which ones can give/save you most money.
I probably use YALP most because though it is simpler it does a good job of showing fight details and it allows you to condense your log file while still keeping all the useful information, eg it removes all the level up messages and replaces them with just one that says you raised your xx skill to yy. This saves you having a huge logfile. It is also a bit less prone to getting confused. Strangely all three cannot cope with the concept of 'healing'; They all report it as an unknown type of combat damage!