View Full Version : PvP - Rogue vs Bard
12-19-00, 12:43 PM
Could anyone with experience from the PvP-severs give me some knowledge in how to fight bards? Im 20 now, how can I take them out as I raise in levels?
Ianoi the rogue
12-19-00, 12:49 PM
Don't PvP a bard. Bronus Blackblade
46th Rogue of the Tribunal
"One step ... two steps ... getting closer ... getting closer. Let them believe me ... let them wonder if I lie ..." - Nitzer Ebb - Getting Closer
12-19-00, 12:52 PM
I know they can bellow and run very fast but SBDs and engulf must at least do something to them?
Are they that mean? Some hard facts please?
Ianoi the rogue
PS. and btw, that should have been "PvP-servers" not "PvP-severs" even though it can feel like the later sometimes
EZ_Sempter the Rogue
12-19-00, 01:22 PM
Speaking as a former bard who got tired of being someone's mana battery....
Even if you poison a bard with a strength reducing poison that leaves them encumbered, then snare, then engulfing darkness, the bard could still outrun you even if you had sow. They are REALLY fast. Also, only a fool would bellow you. They have too many other weapons from DOTs to charms to use.
One thing about a bard, they can't do all that much damage to you either, so it's unlikely that unless you let them, that they'll defeat you. But they have a better chance of beating you than you then. You just can't him them unless they are brain dead.
Your only hope...
If you absolutely have to fight a bard, get a fast bow and go to town on them. If you can interrupt them enough to get close you might get them as they don't have many hps. I will note however, this will only work on a really stupid bard.
Don't PVP a bard. I'm not saying that they are all powerful, because they aren't. They aren't likely to kill you unless you let them. But it's vice versa also.
12-19-00, 01:26 PM
...Sempt beat me to it hehe Skyggen Jagermeister,The Elders of Mith MarrEdited by: Skyggen at: 12/19/00 3:28:21 pm
12-19-00, 01:34 PM
...I guess I will have to max that archery out then.
Ianoi the rogue
12-19-00, 01:59 PM
With a bard, it's all about resists. If you don't have good resists, they WILL kite you around for hours untill you die.
EZ_Zemenar the Exiled
12-19-00, 03:38 PM
Here's some tips Ive used against bards (Note: These are bards that I have dueled, and so far none have changed their tacts so either Ive been lucky or I really am a Bard-Slayer):
Get as much resist as possible.
Forget snaring/str-reducing poisons and get some Maddening(sp?) Sap poison or similar and some root poisons.
Convince the bard to duel you inside the Freeport Arena (most will thinking that they cant lose anyways and will agree to this)
Get loads of Throwing Daggers ..... what? Low skill in it? Shame on you! *sighs* Get a fast delay bow then.
Ok now then start the duel off with either root or your DoT since for some odd reason bards seem to have this honor thing about letting you have the first hit (at least the ones ive dueled). Now if you rooted them apply the DoT and use it on them it will seriously dent there life but not enough for them to worry about losing XP now stab as fast as possible and pray the root doesnt wear off (or the bard getting smart and getting rid of it) if/when (s)he breaks the root start throwing your knives like you've never thrown before! With all the crits/deadlys you'll be laying on that bard he cant regen enough life to negate the damage so he'll either keep on running and eventually (hope you brought TONS of knives) the bards dead, or if the bard knows he's losing he'll just come up and attack you *shrugs* no contest there if he's already less than half life'd from the DoT just stick that dagger into him until he falls, or runs out of the arena either way you've just won.
Zemenar 'the Kinslayer' Thak'Andar
49th Assassion of the Ebon
Even wolves fear the tiger
12-19-00, 05:00 PM
my bard dueled a rogue awhile ago.
we were in qeynos.
it went like this:
put selo`s up with drum, switch in flute, charm.
--equip drum and play selo`s
lol never seen a level 32 rogue fight a level 50 guard before then
anyways, even if he did resist charm bards get a song that reduces magic resist at level 30, fufil`s curtailing chant. he wouldnt have been able to snare me anyway, if he was in melee range i could have pumped my magic resist up to about 110 at level 31. elemental rythms/guardian rythms with a drum.
bards own pvp, i dont know of one class that could beat them solely because of the mr thing if nothing else
12-19-00, 05:52 PM
PvP on blue servers is pretty meaningless compared to the zeks and you cannot charm players on pvp servers.
The whole idea that only one person can hit one other person who must consent to the fight eliminates 4 on 1 portal campings for example but really takes almost all meaning out of it in my opinion. Heres some things that are different in a duel vs fight.
In a duel you have the best gear for the situation on at all times whlie in a fight you have to wear a balance of ac and various saves and modify your outfit to suit the situation. On Rallos you have to think about what you might lose. So pvp in these situations rewards forthought and on rallos having the guts to wear what you need to win.
In a duel a caster can have more buffs then they could mem at once and more than they could possibly afford to maintain while hunting. In a fight you are stuck with what you can afford to keep up and what you thought you would need. Again pvp servers and real fights reward forethought.
In a duel a caster will have all the right spells memed. In a fight the caster will have to work with what he thought he needed which hopefully includes most but rarely all he could want to win the fight.
In a duel casters have full manna and hp and melee have full hp. In a fight you will only be ready if you know your enemy and know where he is. Again forethought is an andvantage.
In a duel teamwork never comes into play
In short blue server duels and duels in general are not an accurate representation of the strengths in pvp of a particular class and part of the str and weakness of a class is the degree of forethought it requires to be ready to fight to your full potential.
Bards are very very very hard to kill anywhere where their speed song works prepared or unprepared though.
I'm not sure when they get thier first mr song or cancel magic song but if they have neither at 27 they have a good chance of being snared by an sbd or poison since people that lvl often don't have high mr.
One thing I'd like to know though is if bard song will remove poison based snare...
Some classes are better than others at PvP, but when listing classes in such terms, you always think about offence. Ie., "What class is best at PvP, as in best at killing someone?". The notion of "which class is best at PvP, as in AVOIDING getting killed" is never asked.
A rogue can get away from a fight gone bad, with his hide/sneak skills. A ranger can snare or root people, and run. A warrior can't do either. A caster can shadowdstep (as can shadowknights), or gate.
Whatever you say about a bard's offensive abilities, they are the one class that can (nearly) always get away.
Sgean 't Knife
Shank, and Thug of Vallon Zek
The only strategy I have seen offered here appears to rely on the bard standing there waiting for you to walk up and succeed with hitting them with a snare/root poison and them failing to resist before they actually start to do anything.
So my suggestion then is - ask the bard if you can walk up and poison them before the fight starts and if they say no, give it up as a bad idea
The whole throwing weapon concept is fatally flawed IMO, what is preventing them running off way outside your range and then healing there ?
12-19-00, 07:51 PM
If you try to kill a bard with throwing knives a bard with 1/2 a brain will kick in psalm of warmth (small damage shield) and twist it with heal and selo's. They can even allow the heal to miss a tic or two and toss in a damage song just for fun. Let us not forget of course that while thier skill is capped pretty low... there is nothing stopping the bard from returning fire with his/her very own thrown weapons.
To be really honest fighting a bard just plain hurts and I do not think it is a very good idea unless you enjoy punishment.
They can be beat given a bit of pre-planning but the effort is just too great and you will always need a bit of luck.
12-19-00, 08:31 PM
(This message was left blank) Edited by: Zolend Newbieater at: 12/19/00 10:31:48 pm
12-20-00, 05:33 AM
not that many PKing elves on TZ and they're the only bard that could attack me if need be....see a bard Pker? ummm...hide and start to work that archery....longer shots Merzbow Ivoux,Level 41 Human Rogue,Rodcet Nife.Merz,level 13 Barbie Rogue,Tallon Zek.
12-20-00, 07:08 AM
A nice big DD or DoT poison, and a Compound Darkwood bow with a high archery skill, and you MIGHT have a chance to kill an unprepared, or unskilled bard. You can't root or snare a bard, their speed song overwrites it. Good news is, it will take the bard about 30 mins to kill you, heh.
Plenty of time to get away.
Assassin of the 30th season
Officer, Order of the Black Rose
a.k.a. Cee Murda of the Faydark
12-20-00, 11:19 AM
Bards ... hate them hate them....
i have only taken one bard out....he must have been a secondary toon cause he stood right in my face and meleed
All the others probably would have beaten me if they had more offensive power.
As it is like creecrit says.....just zone, hide, bandage and go on your way
Vilian Of Vallon DLB
12-20-00, 11:47 AM
A good bard can destroy a similarly leveled character easily.
Taking out a bard as a rogue (or any other class) is nearly impossible.
If you're worried about bards PKing you, most of their songs are saved against magic.. get MR high. They won't be able to get much to stick on you after that.
I'd stay away to be honest Thankfully, they're not that dangerous to you.. Bedrenken Pigsticker
56th level half-man bastard
12-20-00, 04:09 PM
I'm curious - assuming you could deliver it, how effective would a blind poison be on a bard? Could they still twist?
Assuming they can still do Selo's, they could pick a direction and run, but in a lot of places the terrain would work to your advantage, I would think. Bayler
25th season Scout
Hahaha, good question on blind poison...
Being a dumb barbarian with too much bloodlust, I threw my own advice out the door and sunk me daggers into the hide of an elven bard last night. Blind poison stuck, and I got her down to two bubbles, when her human teammates (xteam healing, argh) healed her. She got her ducks in a row after that, and I fled, jumped zones, and somehow managed to fool her, although she zoned faster than me.
2nd try: blind poison did NOT stick, but I think she must had a resist song up, and seen me coming. I lured her away from her team this time, but she was dancing around too fast for me to hit her at all, it was just a long, drawn out battle, that just wouldn't end. I fled again, humbled.
Homey 't Knife
Shank, and Thug of Vallon Zek
06-12-01, 11:34 AM
Bards are mosquitoes,
Bring them death with one backstab
Or swat forever.
06-15-01, 03:07 AM
I'm not on a PvP server but I can tell you this...I have never been bested in a duel by a rogue..I can toe to toe a rogue with no problem and come out with only 1 bubble to a bubble and a half missing.Self dmg sheild I can get to 32/39 depending on song+dorf ring+ss bracer.I can toe to toe most classes and have more hp then most rogues of my level..and I know how to circle strafe .
06-15-01, 11:06 AM
Basicly it all depends on landing a poison. I screw around with my bard guildies during raids alot - i could kill them in under a minute if they just stood still. On rallos zek if a bard attacks me, i'm just going to casually walk away while they try to hit me, but miss.
06-15-01, 03:38 PM
Max swimming skill, fight in the water. Speed enchancers
will do nil there. It's hard to time since there's no
real casting time, but hit the water to cancel a cast of
a dot. Just missile or melee him depending on his distance,
but stick to the water, and only come out if he's casting
something on you you want to avoid. Likewise, if he snares
you, swimming speed is not affected by snare (ie you will
move at the same speed as normal).
Fighting on land, you're screwed. This is low level combat
(20's right?), but for all the high levelers out there,
bards will never be dumb enough to enter melee range. If
they're rooted/snared, they will shadowstep, dispel (either
with their cancel magic or with a swig of cure poison
potion), and with track, come back for more. And for the
people laughing at their spell dmg output, at level 40,
nearly every bard i fight takes off about 200 or so hp in
10 or 20 seconds (that's at 84 magic resist). He just
circles around me and dots, runs away, repeats. Since the
bard runs much faster (or at minimum, matches my movement
speed at level 40), there's no way to escape.
My only real recommendation (since i doubt this will take
place in a water zone) is to load yer highest dmg poison
and hope to do enough damage with missile and melee
(if he ever bothers entering range) to take him down.
Do not blind, any decent player memorizes their hotkeys and
will shadowstep (or just run forward at selo speed till
it wears off).
Do not snare/root (shadowstep again).
Pick a flat area (so he doesn't abuse 'Your target is too
far above/below you' to cancel your missile weapon).
Just try to do as much damage as fast as you can.
Sorry this doesn't help much, but the only times i've ever
killed a bard was when i caught 'em offguard without the
proper spells memmed.
EZ_Ceescrit da Bossalini
06-15-01, 07:27 PM
"Even if you poison a bard with a strength reducing poison that leaves them encumbered, then snare, then engulfing darkness, the bard could still outrun you even if you had sow."
UPDATE: With the recent bard PvP changes, this no longer stands true.
This is an old ass post
The only chance you'll have to kill a decently skilled PvP bard, is to get the jump on them with a snare poison, and hope they don't resist it, or have time to dispell it before they die.
Also, it still stands true that with decent MR, a bard won't be able to kill you before you can run to a group of friends.... even if they are on the other side of the continent.
In a full year of playing on Vallon Zek, I have NEVER died to a solo bard, on any character. I've killed a total of 3 bards with my rogue, 1 with my druid, and 2 with my necro. Your only hope to kill them is to root or snare them. Ceescrit Bossalini
Retired Roag of VZ
Order of the Black Rose
"Where is the end to all my misery, is there a close? I suppose that's why I murder my foes..."
06-15-01, 08:32 PM
Movement spells absolutely DO work in water.
In fact, since the effect on selos on land is normally clipped by max PC movement rate, the effect in water is proportionally greater.
06-16-01, 09:00 AM
Charming a player then turning it on a 50th level guard is not wining a duel its using game mechanics to get a player exp killed and if proven id wager bannable.
06-16-01, 03:34 PM
Ugli, you're right, I just remembered my fun sneak runs into lguk with my mask (more like gurgle gurgle the first time). I guess i'm too used to players who haven't maxxed swimming. It does cause them to move slower than on land though, and helped me land a swing or two as i catch them jumping in or jumping out.
Btw, since this is a duel and all, have leaving the arena area as a disqualification, it'll indirectly keep your friend from shadowstepping.
06-16-01, 11:00 PM
system shock 4... nice dmg about a 6 second stun.. run behind /dis duelist... dead bard