View Full Version : Duo debate again
Me and my friend have pretty much narrowed it down to either wiz and enc or wiz and dru. Who will be the better compliment for the wizard? I'll just do the advantages of having either class i guess.
+clarity and breeze
+tashan line of spells
+Pet (its crappy but better than nothing)
+Haste (not like we'll use it that much)
+invis at level 4
+buffs and healing
+At 19 we'll both be able to port
+damn good dd's and dots
+easy kiting with druid and wiz nukes
The minuses for each are pretty much the advantages the other one has. Since neither of us have a lot of experience on PvP which would do better in that aspect? Or would a hybrid be better?
EZ_Shikaku the Gorotsuki
06-25-01, 10:46 AM
In PvE.. it'd most likely be druid/wizard.
I think that in Pvp, however.. you'll do a lot better with an Enchanter.. I hate fighting enchanters, I avoid it no matter what.. They mez you... they root you.. they Tashan you.. there is nothing more frustrating than seeing your MR drop drastically from that 55 MR you have from your song being played... Not to mention.. it's hard to run from an Enchanter.. or interrupt their Mez.. Mez gets off just as fast as Bellows.. so I cant use the Bellow to interrupt/damage simultaneously(Like I do on Necros and stuff.. Wizards cant get off nukes against a good bard... usually)
Anyways, that's my input...
Previously SZ-Secretname-Bard... Now SZ Rogue(Shikaku)
-Thinks he's posting to much for a new guy..-
Enchanter + Wiz is a real biznatch cause, with proper timing, you can have the mez land a split second after the nuke does. Rinse and repeat, and the victim can't do jack.
Charm is also VERY impressive in PvP. I scared the piss out of this mage last night in qhills, because I charmed that Neclo Reslar guy from the tower and sicc'ed him on her ;p The guy nukes for 124 or something haha.
EZ_Shikaku the Gorotsuki
06-25-01, 11:25 AM
Joy.. too bad you cant charm Kizdean gix for long That'd be fun seeing the evils meleeing him.. hehe
Depends on what type of attacks you plan on making.
Having a druid is a good thing for a wizard, as in the case where you need to run, no one knows where to go to find you. You could be anywhere in the world, at any portal, and even if they said, "well the druid gated them so.." you could re-gate when you all popped.
Druid has snare, which is very nice. Both wizards and druids have a very fast interruption spell. Druid has Sow, which is amazing, making you litterally immune to all melee attacks thanks to the worst shortcomming in pvp code ever. Damage shields, they aren't the best, but if a melee is hitting you without a healer, they will die, especially with Mr Wizard nuking them.
The enchanters have some nice parts, and will be amazingly powerful for a good while. But in the end, people who are running resist gear will out-grow your debuffing power, even with the upgrades. Right now at 56 without full resist gear I am still at 112ish MR. If I really fealt the need, I could (and would if I planned on staying) toss on another 30 MR easily.
The druid would probably be the better choice for a partner. Movement is the ultimate advantage. Let alone that DOTs will go very well for a long time until the world starts getting flooded with excess money and items.
So, with the choices present of druid/chanter, I would say druid. They have more important additions for the pvp factor, which is what you sound to be gearing for.
-L Legna55 ShadowsRallos Zek
06-25-01, 11:33 AM
Do you wanna be pvp duo or lets lvl up and have fun and kill if we have to duo?
for PK, go druid
for lvling up and being able to defend yourself, go chanter
Rodcet Nife Ring Warden
"Nicotine is not addictive" Tobacco Industry
"Rogues are a balanced class"-Gordon
06-25-01, 11:37 AM
Actually the enchanter/wizard team is insanely dangerous.
If you time nukes/mez's correctly you can kill someone without ever letting them move.
Much better than the druid/wizard combo that lets casters gate.
Plus Whirl Til You Hurl is a pretty hefty stun, some 6 seconds or so.
whirl till you hurl is 12 secs, unless it's reduced for mobs. I'd say Enchanter/Wiz is fearsome. Magic resistance is going to be killer in later levels for the druid. Even on an undeveloped economy, your druid will see diminishing returns as time goes on and the economy gets older, as many nukes rely on magic. The enchanter/wiz is probably better in P v E. Expect serious downtime waiting for both the wiz and druid to get back mana. I suppose you two can quadkite separately though.
06-25-01, 01:48 PM
If you have your charmed critter attack your enemy's pet then the creature will pick them over you even after the charm has broken. Their pet will reaggro your charmed creature even if the charm breaks almost right away. To me, it's more efficient than mes'ing their pet and sending yours after them. If they gate right away and you can't interrupt them they'll get away, but otherwise they can really be in trouble. One nasty difference between Sullon and Rallos is you can't kick your buddy to break him out of a mes. Hadn't really considered that till now, but YOUCH. I'm still not certain whether or not I'll play, but I love all the possibilities that the new server affords. It's the only thing that could keep me in EQ at all, at this point.
Thanks for the input folks. We'll most likely be pvp oriented.
Actually, the higher that the levels go, the more MR people will get. The druid's effectiveness will drop to a point, and I do not argue this. Snare will obviously not be sticking later on in the game.
However, enchanters are totally magic based, and almost any melee is going to go full out on MR just to avoid the enchanter threat because it is so dangerous. This is why the druid would be better with their fire based nukes. Most of the field will be running with MR and CR at the 50ish area to avoid the roots/mez/snares and ice comet. Fire is kind of left to the wayside because it is inneffective compared to the other two.
If you are looking at the long haul, the druid will be the best. If you are just looking for the quick fix, the enchanter will be the best partner with clarity and such. The druid is also amazing when you go into PVE because of the snare and DOTs make tag teaming your way to 60 pretty simple.
Chanters have their good points, but I feel that the druid's additions to your team will be significantly more.
-L Legna55 ShadowsRallos Zek
Remember though, enchanters have MR debuffs while druids have no MR debuff. And this was recently boosted 50% in P v P. Debuffs of 60 are possible with one spell.
An enchanter can also earn a lot of money through jewelcrafting and outfit the wizard with jewelry and the all-important stein of moggok at early levels, something a druid cannot do.
06-26-01, 04:29 PM
Hey, just as a bit of a contrast, what are your opinions on a caster / melee pair? My friend and I were thinking about playing Shaman / Monk or Druid / Monk. (Iksar / Iksar evil, or Halfling / Human neutral, more then likely evil though.)
Thanks for any input.
06-26-01, 05:32 PM
Lower levels Chanter + Druid is better. At low levels not evryone going to have pummices for dots and peoples resists wont be in the 100+ in all saves.
At high levels Chanter and Wiz = insanely badass combo. Lure of Ice + Rapture = opponent screwed
Like I said. My comments were aimed at the long haul. And let me tell you, if someone wants to be immune to an enchanter, they can be. Even with their debuffs.
Enchanters just have the setback of having all their spells tied to the same resist line as the MUST RESIST for melee.
You can get hit with ice comet and probably still win. You cannot have root/mez land and still win. period. If that means getting 140 base MR then so be it, people will get what they need to. Verant was stupid to make such a spell line, and it is even worse now that they are increasing debuffs like that.
-L Legna55 ShadowsRallos Zek
Getting to 140 MR on an undeveloped server is another thing. From the pics I saw of Yuri's death, at level 34, he was using his senior apprentice robe and a skull of jherta.
06-26-01, 09:41 PM
You can have 180 mr and your probably not going to resist rapture, the best defense if you know you are going up against an enc is to buy a reckless health potion....its a dot and breaks mez Or have a nec/sk/shm cast a low level dot on you. That level 4 posion one...forget its name. Kinthaf, RZ
Once again, he is asking about the long haul, not a quick fix.
In the end, druids are better than enchanters. thus my opinion. As I said, if you are just looking to fight for a while, sure, go for a chanter. But if you want to xp faster, less downtime, less death, better end-game pvp you go with druid.
Mez is too easy to get out of, but it is even better to resist it all together. If they want to chain cast rapture, let them. Going to be a long effort on their part, and if there is more than one enemy (most likely) then it is a waste from low level DOTs.
incidentally, sullen necros wont be able to dot teamates, so you will have to get the potions. 13 plat at level 50+ (the levels that you are speaking of) is nothing.
-L Legna55 ShadowsRallos Zek
06-27-01, 11:42 AM
Neither is a very good compliment to a Wizard in PvP. But a Druid is better in this case.
Druid brings: Snare, DoT's, Nukes
Chanter brings: Clarity, Tash, Mez
Tashania does not help a Wizard do his job better because the Wizard is not going to use MR based nukes. If I'm fighting a Wizard and a Chanter, I'm going to get Tashed. I'm thinking, "Ok, now my mr is 95. What else can the chanter do?". I then focus all my attention on dropping that Wizard before he nukes the piss out of me. All the chanter can do at this point is try to land a mez (he won't), or use his nukes (laughable).
Swap out the chanter for a druid. I can't focus my attention on the Wizard because the Druid will heal him and hit me with Winged Death and light nukes, then the Wizard will cast Yonder. I can't chase the Druid because the Wizard will pound me and the Druid is running faster than my Jboots anyway (though I would chase the druid and try to pumice him).
Druid is better for PKing with a wizard. A chanter is only so so. My advice is to go Wizard/Shaman though. Shaman adds everything a druid does plus an annoying pet and some hefty HP buffs to keep the Wizard alive longer.
A smart rogue and bard duo are going to pwn you though. shoe
06-27-01, 06:55 PM
Dots + chanters = dont work
Wizard is a better partner at high levels than a druid.
Ok, well i started a neutral gnome wiz, but i was looking over the shaman spell list and i'm sorta enticed to play one. I never had one above level 5 and a barbarian sham would be pretty cool. gonna hafta make a decision because only a char per server. I went neutral because it gives my buddy who's in mexico on vacation more of a choice i think.