View Full Version : SullonZek-Class-Advantages:
07-04-01, 06:28 AM
Hello Everyone. Can people throw some info in this thread as to the pros and cons on different classes, with the ruleset of sullen in mind? Thanks just felt this type of thread might be cool to read.
Well I'm playing wizard:
Pros: Unrivaled vast and fast unloading of magic damage, from pretty good range.
Cons: Once you're out of mana, you've got 1/3 of that warriors hp's and you better run your arse off.
Wang, Anonymous Gnome of Sullon Zek, Anarchy
Canbik Virulentus, 40th Halfling Rogue of Rallos Zek, Order of the Black Rose (Retired)
Joyous Mackdaddy, 23rd Human Enchanter of Sullon Zek [Test], Anarchy (Player Wiped)
"Just gimme my gun."
"Sorry, the law requires a five day waiting period... we've got to run a background check."
"Aww, but I'm mad now." - Homer Simpson, buying a gun
07-04-01, 07:01 AM
Pros': Great escapability, excellent in PK groups, Jewelcraft
Con's: Bad Solo PK class (hey look I can mes you...whoopty do!), Pets=Poop (but are actually decent as guards against PKer's, like if are at a certain Cuburt camp in Q catacombs in the midst of Ugly Newts, for example ) Nimmbull
Retired 47th Level Hoodlum, Bristlebane
Cinderheart, Sullon ZekEdited by: Nimmbull at: 7/4/01 9:02:54 am
Lol you weren't one of the people Kefkaa killed were you?
This is too tough to do.
Here's what a respectable enchanter-ganker said on Caster's Realm... Don't forget the melee-range bug however when weighing the melees.
Enchanters are kings of Time Control. First thing they do is remove their defensive/survival power greatly (Pillage Enchantment), next is another hit to their defensive ability (Tishania), next removes their ability to attack/defend totally (Enthrall), next is the removal of their escape (Root, STRLose), then apply the clock (Discordant), follow again with removal of their ability to attack/defend (remez), continue with clock/time control.
You cant get more time control with that. You could always control them even more with shiftless or sieves etc. To remove more of their offense/defense.
Having said that I prefer Time control to both pure offense and pure defense. I generally break up the classes like this:
Warrior, Rogue, Wizard, Necromancer, Magician, Druid, Monk, Shadowknight.
Cleric, Paladin, Bard.
Shaman, Enchanter, Ranger.
At high levels the Rogue can be changed over to Time control with a little preparation consisting of root poisons and the duelist discipline which puts a huge damage clock on them and removes their ability to get themselves out of the situation by muscle lock which drops STR by like 80 super snaring them till one of the 2 of you is stopped, plus them having high resists to hamper your ability to kill them and dual wielding quick weapons to remove your offensive abilities as well as defensive.
Assuming correct preparation, The triangle usually goes like this:
Time control beats Defense.
Offense beats Time control.
Defense beats Offense.
Time control can usually eliminate the defense ability of the Defense classes and outlast them, while they lose to very quick offense. Very staunch defense will usually be able to escape somehow using the time given to them by their large amount of immunity to attack, a warrior dual wielding 40's on an enchanter hurts more than a Aegolism'd cleric who can last over twice as long in the face of the same offense assuming he doesnt get off a lot of remedies or something. Wizards have an insanely hard time killing fully buffed full mana clerics especially remedy capable ones. They can remedy as fast as the wizard can lure through their 40 resist buffs for each resist. The clerics can usually gate from this fight NP.
Also within each category there are matchups which usually end up in favor of the one with the best offense. A Ranger will usually win out against an Enchanter because his offense is faster and his clock starts earlier than the enchanters. By asserting its clock early as well as its hindering your ability to attack/defend (dual wield) it accomplishes its mission faster and wins. If the Enchanter can get off a dazzle it has all the time in the world to: remove your ability to offend (Rerune), remove your ability to retreat (STRLose), Remove youre ability to defend (Sieve so no dispells to allow yourself movement), etc. And the Enchanter has a technically won game.
Same for the defense category, Paladins will win against clerics ALL DAY LONG. They have better offense than clerics and thats what wins out in the end.
In agressive category its a little different, usually its the one that gets the attack. If a Necro attacks a wizard the wizard will most likely lose. If a wizard attacks a necro they better hope they have a lot of deflux mana handy and the WIZ doesnt have rune up(removes the HP gain from deflux and removes their offensive power from deflux totally). If a Warrior attacks a mage the mage better hope they can outrun the warrior because the warrior will be able to cut them to ribbons before the pet kills 2k and some odd amount of HP with all the AC.
Having said that: Try to create a balanced team across all the categories. One of each is a good start. If you pick the right mix you can go with say Ranger, Ranger, Druid and their time clocks can come into play very fast and make up for your inability to weather long fights (with a Defensive comrade such as a BRD or CLR).
Either go with one of each or 2 time controls and one offense or 2 offense and 1 time control. Those are the big winners overall.
DONT go for 3 Defensive, DONT go for 3 offensive (you will get wiped out a lot), 3 Time Control can get away with it if their offense is fast enough(2 RNG 1 SHM, etc).
Note there are exceptions to every rule and the previously mentioned WIZ/ENC/BRD is one particular one. None of those can work together to amplify their offense or defense. One Ranger on a caster and they will get a spell off sometimes if the ranger gets a few misses, put 2 Rangers on someone and they damn sure wont cast anything offensive or defensive(Unless its a spell that shouldnt exist like shadowstep).
Im sure we can all see how the two rangers cover each other very well and also fully double the damage the other is dealing.
Also note that 3 Offense should defeat 3 defense and probably would in an even fight but see what happens when 3 rangers go after 3 necromancers all of them starting off with pet snares. The necros wont last long AT ALL. The rangers time clocks will be ticking on the opponent at the same time they realize they need to attack/defend and the rangers have already removed a good portion of their offense and have started asserting their own by dual wielding on the sittin casters Unless the necros can pull out a miracle out of somewhere they will lose because they werent allowed to be agressive.
Axiom: When thrown into another role that class will generally not perform well. If you try to tell a wizard to be defensive or time control (Root?) they wont be effective at all. If you tell a CLR to be offensive they wont have near the power they need. If you try to tell a bard to go offensive versus a warrior it will take forever for them to win.
07-04-01, 10:53 AM
I have not been killed yet.
But I hold no illusions, the longer I hang out near Qeynos the more likely it is.
EZ_Shikaku the Gorotsuki
07-04-01, 12:07 PM
I'm a Bard...and I argue what you say about them totally...
Bards are NOT a purely defense class...you ever fought an angry bard? They dont play extremely nice.
AOE Damage Songs Gallore(Which stack usually)
Single Target DD songs(Stack usually)
Group MR Boost(When on the run, and only worried about a root/mez)
Group MR/PR/DR resist(Vs Necros, shamans..depending on their style, and enchanters Tashan line..it's just a poison)
Group MR/HR/CR resist(Vs Most the casters)
Group Regen(It evens up the odds in a fight if you're HP is nonstop regenerating a lot more than the person you're fighting)
Group Buffs Gallore
That is 8 types of songs I could have 1 of each up in my gems, and be twisting usually 3, sometimes 4...now you still wanna say Bards are defense alone? We're Time Control...We're Offense..We're Defense...
Mez, Root, Fear, Charm
Single Target Mez, AOE Mez(I've seen 15 people mezzed at once with a lute being played), AOE Snare, works JUST as good as that root..it's VERY slowing...AOE Fear...and Charms, too....
So, personally..I am never afraid to fight an enchanter..purely based on the knowledge I can do what they can and just as good...if we want to throw in they can Breeze/Clarity...so? A Bard can be a battery for mana..and you dont have to ask "Plz Breeze me again" every 10 or so minutes
Hmm, Shikaku, have you ever fought the Combine Resurrection on Vallon?
You will see proof that a bard is defensive. A bard in my group with full lambent at level 18 was fighting a Combine monk twinked with Tboots. There was no way he could kill the monk with Bellows or his AE song. No way. The damage a bard can do is very low. All he could do is run around, but whenever the monk got hits in with his Adamantine bo stick, 80 damage chunks. Bellows and AE would not cut it, not up against high magic resists. Bards are excellent at defense, no one can run as fast as them, but if you want to kill someone, you take a very long time.
07-04-01, 02:29 PM
Shikaku. Everything but 2 of your songs you listed were defense. Of course any class can offense, however some are just more defense then others.
Just because he says a bard is defensive doesnt mean they have no offense. It just means that they specialize in defense.
Rogue is a good example of offense. So is the wizard. Now compare your offensive abilities to theirs, and then just decide where the bards SPECIALTIES lay.
A wizard can play defensively by shadowstepping/yonder over and over. But does that make him a defensive class? No.
Everyone has their nich, and it just so happens, a bards is in defense. They are a special defensive class tho, and one of the hardest classes to kill in the game. Just their offense is rather slow, and ineffective, especially against high resists.
-? Legna55 ShadowsRallos Zek
EZ_Tular the Most Ill
07-04-01, 06:45 PM
Bard if you don't want to be killed
Shadow Knight if you want to kill others
Bard is impossible to kill if they don't want to die and shadow knight can kill just about all other classes with minimal effort on the player's part.
I see very little way a rogue could win any battle on SZ. I mean a mage with a pet will obliterate a rogue, a wizard has a pretty damn good chance to kill a rogue, warriors will have no problem, any class with a damage sheild will obliterate a rogue, any class with blind will obliterate a rogue. I mean unless the rogue gets the first hit, a backstab, and a poison and they all work, the rogue barely has a chance.
07-04-01, 09:09 PM
Kordesh have you ever played a rogue? doesnt sound like it.
Once rogues get resist gear and carry about 4 Pumice stones all the time half of what you mentioned just isnt a threat. That warrior can be taken down with a spine break and a blind. If he has high poison resist you can joust him to death with front stabs and good timing. If he is using a two handed weapon you can act like you will do a full joust but back up before you get to him and they usually will hit attack thus wasting their high damage high delay attack. Rogues are far from helpless. They are pretty helpless against casters though until they get resist gear and poisons. A spine break and blind can really mess up just about any caster. With the new hide feature you can mess up a melee without see invis.
Kordesh have you ever played a rogue? doesnt sound like it.
My main on Fennen was a lvl 40 rogue.
"Once rogues get resist gear and carry about 4 Pumice stones all the time half of what you mentioned just isnt a threat."
***Please note that anyone that can afford to be restocking 4 pumice stones all of the time on SZ is either exploiting or has been smithing his ass off.***
That warrior can be taken down with a spine break and a blind.
***Yes assumeing you are lvl enough and have enough cash to get the components and make the poison. There are maybe 5 rogues on SZ that are Lvl enough to make poison***
If he has high poison resist you can joust him to death with front stabs and good timing. If he is using a two handed weapon you can act like you will do a full joust but back up before you get to him and they usually will hit attack thus wasting their high damage high delay attack.
***The warriors aren't the large problem. It's the hybreds. And considering weapons for warriors seem to be better then the weapons that are available to rogues at the moment on SZ they have an edge.***
Rogues are far from helpless. They are pretty helpless against casters though until they get resist gear and poisons.
***Yes good luck getting resist gear and poisons any time soon on SZ. Have fun getting pummled by casters untill you have hit the EQ lotto to pay the insain fees people are going to be charging for resist gear.***
A spine break and blind can really mess up just about any caster. With the new hide feature you can mess up a melee without see invis.
***Once agen refur to above about the poisons. Also the new hide feature I have yet to see. I attacked a halfling rogue that was running through EC and he got away by hiding but he was still on my target. If this so called new feature was saposed to come in next patch well surprise surprise the patch was called off. So now even without see invis, one cast will rectify the invis problem and heavily damage the enemy.***
Quote: Hello Everyone. Can people throw some info in this thread as to the pros and cons on different classes, with the ruleset of sullen in mind? Thanks just felt this type of thread might be cool to read.
Just pick the class ye wish to play and stay in a group. No matter what class ye choose ye'll contribute in some way, shape, or form. Remmi (ornery dwarven rogue and thwapper of idjits!)
Creator of GuildBoss - Guild Manager for Windows
Founder of The Safehouse - Discussion Forums for EverQuest Rogues
07-05-01, 01:16 PM
Kordesh, get in a guild. My entire guild consisting of 50+ members is all level 15+ right now. Today we are raiding runneye and in about 1 month my guild will all have grotesque masks (ac6 5 magic resist and other stuff) and BAlloy crowns (ac8 +6 to all resist) as well as full black alloy armor. In a months time my entire guild will be at LEAST 25+ if not 30+. Money is not as hard to come by as you like to think. By the time you are 18+ things regularly start dropping 5+ gold and once you get 23+ plat. I guess it might be a problem for others but for me all those things wont be problems. Also if you want to avoid that stuff hunt in groups and travel high on zone walls when going through zones.
When I was lvl40 on a blue server as a rogue I could barely make 100pp and 100pp coulden't buy you anything on that server so don't say money isen't hard to come by. I am already in a guild with 65 members.
07-05-01, 05:16 PM
I am serious. money is not hard to come by... maybe for you. not for me.
07-10-01, 02:24 AM
I just have to say I don't know what you was doing, but as of lvl 35ish I was making about 100plat a day playing. Now some people might have been complaining about the amount of coins dropped from mobs, but everyone was happy when I would go buy the drinks.
07-11-01, 11:28 AM
lol have all of you forgoten Elegances post on making cash on pvp servers? looks that way to me. Paell La Puta
50 th lvl Necromancer of Doom
30 something Puller Extrodinare
A friend will help you move, A true friend will help you move a body,
A Nec will Make it get up and walk off under its own power.