Rogue Vs Necro?

[EZ_Alekzander Valcarde]

I was just wondering if anyone had any Duel/PvP tips (other then the obvious 'work up resists and carry a pumice') for a rogue to giveth much ownage to a Necro? - Alekzander Valcarde, Right Sneaky Goodie Bastard.

So I held my head up high, hiding hate that burns inside, which only fuels their selfish pride.
Creed, 'My own Prison'

[EZ_john is war]

1. Instill doubt pet
2. Try to use a snare/root poison, because they'll darkness you and run.
3. Smash 'em to bits
4. If pet comes back, and if he's LOH, kill him. Then pet poofs. Otherwise try to instill doubt pet, and procede on killing him

b. if on sullon
1 train pet on nasty things
2.watch sparks fly

[Jessicaa]

UM wtf I guess a post got moved as I was replying so I put it in this one .. Edited by: Jessicaa at: 7/26/01 3:48:31 pm

Simple. Hide/sneak before the sucker targets you. then accept duel, then immidiately wack the necro with a blind poison. Oh yes the joy of blind. Then proceed to wack that guy while he runs in circles.

[EZ_john is war]

Duel? WTF is duel? He's talking about PvP Edited by: john is war at: 7/26/01 5:57:02 pm

[EZ_Alekzander Valcarde]

Kordesh:
it all depends on wether Necros get See Invis early, don't they? I think I will safely assume any caster over level 10 (except for druids and shaman, who get it at 14 I think?) have See invis.

[EZ_Leafblighter]

Any self-respecting Necro on a PvP server will at least have a Harvester (which grants permanent See invis). There are plenty of other items you could have too, of course, but the Harvester is easily obtained and doesn't sell for all that much.

If you can't get within melee distance before he starts casting, I'd run. Necros are the Gods of PvP General {G}Leafblighter
Commander of the Graymen Armies

[EZ_Elegance]

necs get deadeye at 8th, havester grants deadeye, and later dmf also grants it, forget about a nec not having see invis. like any caster if you start the fight with a bs on their medding little ass you will have an insane advantage, with 2 good bs's a fight should last under 15 seconds against a caster who cant get away (or who is just to surprised) skip blind and just root em. he loses if he has to stand there and take it period end of story, unless he gates out he is yours Diabalein Avidya,

[EZ_Rianne]

If the necro is ready for you, I'd say zone immediatly and save yourself the pain. Unless you get them in a low spot, the necro can shadowstep and lifetap you to death no matter what your resists. With crappy resists he might snare and dot you as well while you try to deal with the pet. You must have terrain advantage if you're going to beat a necro. Indoors or the bottom of a valley is a must.

lets not forget that lovely stun spell, although that might only work on undead.

[EZ_Leafblighter]

My necro doesn't have any stuns... then again, he's only 32 (but I don't recall seeing any latter level stun spells). Forgot about Deadeye, cuz my necro is a dark elf so I never needed the spell for night vision. General {G}Leafblighter
Commander of the Graymen Armies

[Rhovanion]

2 spells that are a Necros friend...

Screeming Terror
eq.castersrealm.com/spell...asp?Id=473

Harmshield
eq.castersrealm.com/spell...asp?Id=420

Once again assuming that the Necro is ready for the attack.

[EZ_TibisHatter]

Just popping to say this is a thread better suited to The Arena, to which it has been moved.

[EZ_Venomss]

1st-If he's floating, he's got dmf up and you are going to have to purge that if you want any of your poisons strategies to work. Golem wands are great for this.

2nd-The pet could solo you at the later half of the game, if you were stupid enough to stand and fight it. Root poison or snare the pet or blind poison the pet so it runs. By the time you get instill doubt to work, if you were to try this, you will be splurted and one foot in the grave.

3rd-after removing that DMF, find a way to keep him in place (root/snare poison) and keep the pressure up.

4th-if you are experienced enough to have the disciplines (this part is theory) open up with poison and the disc fired up, as you could possible score a very early second round kill...like a wizard with 2 ice comets.

5th-if you are the one surprised by the necro, run. Surprise will allow you to win. Lack of surprise will likely lead to your death every time.

6th-be faster...jboots, tboots, sow...howevery you do it, be faster...if darkness sticks, put away the daggers and dig yourself a grave.

Venomwood Cantsolo-44th rogue (retired) of Tallon Zek
Xnir Pyromancer-50 Mage of Vallon Zek
Venoms-20th lvl rogue, Vallon Zek

[EZ_Aerimus Shadowborn]

As for the pet soloing you at the later part of the game at 53 I can kill mage pets (without dmgs shield that is) without it even being close) Mage pets being much stronger than necro pets a nec pet wouldn't be a challenge. Of course if you tried to deal with the pet and the necro at the same time you would die...quickly.


If he has a pet up there are some nets that cast ensnaring roots ( root not snare) unless he tries to run around the root will probably last as long as the fight.

[EZ_Valrog]

This is my experience in PvP with Necros, though I play on PvE I duel alot. 1st time I dueled this certin necro I was 56th, he was 58th, basically I did enough damage to him after dispelling him to knock him down, with 120~ in all resists he couldn't land anything on me, I just ignored the pet. However in the 2nd duel he owned me plain and simple. He just chained Lifetapped and Shadowstepped I couldnt do a thing.

So basically, I agree with the poster that said, if the Necro starts the fight, run, if you start it, do so with a poison, backstab and discipline and pray he tries to Dot/Snare you and you resist it.

Overall, they're just plain meanies =p

[EZ_Svart Da Hag]

What Rianne said (he should know 60 NEC and 60 ROG on RZ in a PvP guild), in an open area a necro have a very very big advantage (Shadowstep and Lifetap), indoors is another matter, there a ROG has a big potential to own.

/Svart, RZ (retired but not cancelled)

[EZ_Thisle]

I play a lvl 40 rogue on TZ and i dont think ive EVER lost a fight agianst a necro. I love fighting necros, they are some of the easiest kills ive ever had. Necros have incredably LOW HP and AC.

First get some MR...the basic stuff...7mr bracer, 14mr rings...DE mask...RBF, earing of essence..you know the good stuff.

Second, you might want see invis, i know the CoS was nerfed in the last patch but there are prenerfs and that can really mess you up. So get a bracer of hidden or somthing of the sort.

Third, Poison works well on a necro depending on their lvl. If they are 44+ *TRY* to pumice off DMF before you hit em with poison.

Fourth, just hack away, most of the time i find i joust necros alot more than acual hacking, becuase of shadow step. So learn some jousting. Usually youll get REALLY good backstabs in on necros.

5th, DONT even try to use hide on a necro... First of all they get See invis which will be up even if they dont have a harvester. Also dont try to fear the pet unless you REALLY need to, i never have, mabey the 49th+ pet. Fearing the pet takes time, time is what you dont want the necro to have on you. Time means Dots. Most of which can be life threatening...

6th, USE PUMICE. If you have self buffs like..Jboots, DE mask, Mylokers, gobby earing, bracer of hidden. Buy a telescop and Hit the telescope before applying the buffs. That way you have what is called a "buff slot" open. The dot will land in the "buff slot" if it lands. If its magic based just hit the ol pumice stone and wala, no more dot. Pumice stones take away the first and second buff slot.

Thats pretty much it. Also you can run away while hes casting, those dots take 4+ seconds to cast, so just run out of range. Only do this if you know your not going to be able to get to him in time.

Simple eh? If you do all of this, in 30seconds or less youll have one dead necro.


Edit: Please read our sig rules. Your sig animation is WAY too large for this board. - ShadowCross Edited by: Shadowcross at: 8/2/01 3:29:44 am

[EZ_Maximilean]

Or, to put it another way, if you have the best MR gear in the game, kunark armour, and debuff gear, you can kill a necro, provided his shadowstep is hideously unlucky, he's allergic to gating, and you have Jboots and he doesn't?

Yeah, killing necros is kind of easy like that. It also helps if you are a GM and your opponent has no arms and has to play by blowing hard on the keys.

[EZ_Tikker]

IMO necros are not THAT hard to kill for a rogue
unless of course they land a snare
then you are toast


ignore the pet, kill the necro

Tikker Gimblestan
55th Blackguard of the Nameless
483 recorded kills of Mooto

[Krimzan]

I'm going to have to disagree with the people of the opinion that necros are the gods of PvP. I've fought a few, and they are just like most casters. Make sure you have a range weapon, and don't get darknessed. If he knows what he's doing he'll darkness, shadowstep, lifetap, and you're cooked. Luckily most of the necros I've met try to screw around with DoT's and stuff like that.

A lot of the times, you don't have to be able to win, just make him think you can. Krimzan Anklestabber
Anarchia (Neutral)- Sullon Zek "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
-Douglas Adams, The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy View todays stats for Sullon Zek!

[EZ_Lurik]

For one thing, Necro pets own rogues later half of the game? Please, spare me of that rubbish.

However, don't worry about the pet.

To start, hit Jboots or take a SoW potion.

Snare pet with basilisk poison.

Procede to chase around the pansy necro while he tries to cast. Turn your spell effects ON so you can easily relocate him if he casts Shadow Step.

I don't care if you've got a Ragebringer and a Primal Spear, use an SBD either mainhand or offhand. Once Necro is darked, you win.

Another Strategy: Use basilisk poison on the necro instead of the pet, you win.

[EZ_Maximilean]

Unless he's twinked, or something is unusual, a necro will have to "screw around with dots." Lifetaps are not really inefficient, so long as the necro is getting the healing benefit, and has his hp-mana spell on, but they are still very expensive as nukes, even low-resist ones. Dark-SS-taps won't work even if dark lands, unless you really can't deal with the pet.

On Sullon right now, I'd have Hp-mana on, try a darkness, sic the pet, and if the darkness stuck I'd lay down one or two good dots, move away on foot if the rogue is making for me, and see how the HP bars move. If Darkness didn't stick, I'd try again, shadowsteping as needed; this is only because there aren't very high resists on SZ yet. Nuking with lifetaps will just run you out of mana and force you to retreat, imo.

If darkness doesn't stick, as it increasingly won't as resists increase, the necro has to shadowstep while laying and count on the melee-damage bug to protect him from being ginsu-knifed; this is harder than it's sometimes made out to be, especially since one bad shadowstep can get you into a lot of hot water, stab stab stab BACKSTAB.

The effect of this, in my view, is to make necros even more well-advised to do damage with dots and not taps, since taps require so much dangerous stopping and shadowstepping. Every stop to cast against a melee could be your last.

[EZ_Venomss]

To play devils advocate:

for Necro to beat rogue: Assume High MR...lead with Splurt. If he tries to stop to remove splurt. cast lifetap. If he ignores splurt, you have won.

As you see...the point/click and win is in favor of the necro...(druids similarly) Necros are themselves not awesome at pvp...Necromancer class is a vehicle by which less than decent PvPers can become average or above....its because basically a trained chimp can cast the necessary spells for them to win. For us to win, much more thinking and planning go in to it.

P.S. anyone had a chance to play with the Mage Summoned 10 Damage thrown weapons yet? Anyone get a deadly strike with one?

Venoms

[EZ_Venomss]

*apologizes and begs patience for his additional post*

P.P.S. I never said "Necro Pets Own" later half of game. I said "Necro pet could solo" thereby implying the possibility...a very likely one unless you happen to always fight from the standpoint of "Have poison applied, Full HP, not more than 6 lvls difference between you and pet owner". As a 44 rogue a necro sicked his 49 pet on me, and frankly...I got out of there like a wild goose in winter. Fights rarely start on TZ/VZ when everyone is ready for them...as with any of the pvp servers.

-Venoms Edited by: Venomss at: 8/6/01 12:19:24 pm

[EZ_Venomss]

*apologizes and begs patience for his additional post*
Edited by: Venomss at: 8/6/01 12:13:12 pm

[EZ_Dove Whispersilk]

Quote: If he tries to stop to remove splurt. cast lifetap. If he ignores splurt, you have won.

if there is a necro pet beating on you, you wont be able to channel through a pumice to remove splut which leaves only golem wand as a solution. And counting on expendable dropped items to stay alive puts you at a huge disadvantage.

Dove the Silent - Assassin of Clan Ta`Veren on Terris-Thule

[EZ_Lurik]

I know of no necromancer pet that could kill me at level 55. And yes, I've killed all of them from 49 up.

Little thing called Instill Doubt that you should try, a fear proccing dagger helps as well.

<u>Lurik Crim'Tal</u>
[b]Former Veiled Alliance Rogue
Forever grateful to Nimbel Fyngers and Zappalan Greymist
Server Rodcet Nife

"Pfft you rogues have a little box pop up on character creation asking "Would you like a ragebringer?" and you finally clicked yes." - My friend, Albrin.

[EZ_Venomss]

*sighs and concedes point to Lurik*

Ok...you own necro pets...grats.

Last time I checked, my post still said "I was 44 facing a 49 pet". COULD COULD COULD...the word I used was "COULD solo a rogue"!!! and the fact is they can...maybe not you, on Rodcet Knife, when ready for the /duel to hit...but on Vallon Zek, where fights start mostly without warning, and there's up to 8 lvls difference in the fighters (can mean 2 rankings of spells discrepancy if you are very unlucky-i.e. I'm 43, he's 49) itsa beetch.

44 vs. that pet is a little different than 55 vs. that pet...or am I WAY off base to think that 11 lvls difference doesn't matter?

And I maintain...the problem isn't the pet...its the DoT tossing "favorite son of VI" (tied with druids) that is quietly casting his spells. Good against a pet is one thing, good against a necro...another.

*considers his points made, and withdraws from thread*

[EZ_Kilii]

I've played up a 34th rogue and 40th necro on Rallos with a lot of pvp experience. The advantage belongs to the necromancer with all things being equal. But all things are not equal. If you get the drop on the necromancer and have a weapon that does good damage then you may indeed win, regardless of which level range you are in. If the necromancer has gotten the jump on you then you are most likely a dead rogue. My main advice is to carry some pvp tools along with you (potions and pumice/golem wand), and stick to that necro like glue. If you turn to fight the pet then you will have more dot's on you then a leopard. Really your only hope is to break his concentration and do as much damage as possible as quickly as possible. As a rogue I'd lead off with a dispell, backstabs and poison (blind would be a good lead off, or dd). If you can carry some cure poison or cure disease potions you can remove some dots, too. Necromancers are dead only when they are out of mana, don't let their low health fool you. As a necromancer fighting a rogue, I'd let them get me down to at least half so they wouldn't be watching their own health.

As one last note, not everyone panics when blinded. My necromancer (and all my casters) had his spells hotkeyed, so when blinded, he'd simply cast the appropriate spells (SS outside, ST or taps inside).

[EZ_Lurik]

I know what PvPs like, my first characters were on Vallon Zek, thanks.

Besides that, simple point: If you CAN'T or DON'T KNOW how to solo a necro pet, you don't need to be trying to PvP.

[EZ_Tzara]

Vexing Mordinia is almost always a better PvP lead than Splurt.

Screaming Terror is very easy to resist.

So is Darkness.

Whoever suggested using an SBD over high-damage weapons-- heh. In standard PvE gear, I'd bet you'd have to proc darkness around 10 times to have a prayer of it sticking on any necro less than 4 levels below you. You have time for 10 procs, the guy had better be dead.

Necro v. rogue is all about surprise. Rogue gets to lead with a stab, then the necro has to play very defensively and will probably die or gate. Necro gets to lead with VM/pet attack, rogue is pretty well screwed.

--Jylieu McKenna
60 Battlebard
Defiant
Vallon Zek