View Full Version : dueling a Shadowknight?
12-26-01, 04:43 PM
around level 49 or 50.
This, btw, is a well-prepared SK, with lots of resist gear. Likes to use weaken and things like that as well as engulfing darkness and such.
Whats the best course of action? clickable items + poison and tactics?
12-26-01, 09:44 PM
Run and hide...
Assuming you're in the same ballpark levelwise you're gonna have a VERY hard time significantly outdamaging his lifetaps (50 pt w/ no recycle, 300 pt w/ 6 min recycle and 25 pt proc I think are all the one's he'd have access to at that level), plus the fact that most SK weapons are better for 'jousting' which is a common PVP tactic..
Life Leech has a recycle time of 2 minutes and lifetap procs do not work together well with jousting.
Best way to beat a SK as a Rogue would be to stay close to him, try to run through/past him and make your BS hit home.
If he snares you you can as well kiss your ass goodbye.
Forget resists, darkness line is plain level resist in pvp, boil blood cannot be resisted and lifetaps are the same.
Keep him busy, never let him cast something - dont let him do a pet in advance. Its pathing will rip you apart.
If you go below 500 his HT will finish you - back out and vanish then to spare yourself a defeat.
If he is half prepared he will have see invis up - it would be wise to have a pumice stone to dispell him. If he can't see you he is dead.
12-26-01, 11:36 PM
Being an SK myself I can say that you have your woprk cut out for you.
Best thing to do is prevent him from casting, the lifetaps are a fairly long cast, and you stand a fair chance of disrupting him.
Boil Blood is the killer - have pumice stones to scrub that one off. He/she will be trying to cast Clinging Dark as it has a short recast time and uses little mana, and if it lands it will allow him/her to get far enough away to start banging out lifetaps.
Another thing, I would have a see invis device on such as a fingerbone hoop - one of my favorite tactics is to use a Circlet of Shadows (pre-nerf) to chain cast and cause my opponent to lose targetting.
60 SK Drinal
12-27-01, 12:06 AM
Don't even bother. Unless the SK is out of mana, has no HT, @#%$ weapons, and generally sucks ass at jousting, and you yourself are a PvP @#%$ with l33t gear, then its almost a no-win battle.
12-27-01, 05:56 AM
Use your poisons little rogue. Blind him and then abuse him quickly. If you have the skills to make the better poisons, I would suggest blind, then snare, then DoT him, then use a DD posion, then blind him again. The only thing he should ever see is LOADING, PLEASE WAIT.
12-27-01, 06:57 AM
first off he can't cast boil blood at either lvl 49 or 50, so don't worry about the pumice for that spell.
Pray the shadowknight is a gimp and doesnt use shadowstep cause if he does he will get spells off.
Man forget it, all you can do is hope he is a gimp and uses a noc blade or something and totally forgets to mem see invis or something.
Just remember you can backstab him without ever seeing his back. When you run through him you can BS him just as long as you are behind him, you don't need to be facing his back.
12-27-01, 07:40 AM
The only thing you can do is pray he isn't good at PvP, otherwise you are a dead man ^_^
SK's are the gods of PVP. Why worry about taking him solo when you can get a posse. =P
12-27-01, 08:10 AM
I can't help you from a rogues point of view, but I have beaten a couple shadowknights around my level myself....
if you got a blind poison, use it, then hide and he won't have you targeted for spells anymore. Even with see invis, going invis or hide will break the target although he can still see you. Not sure if instill doubt works in PvP, but some form of fear is a good thing, he can't cast if he cant' control himself.
That's the little info I can say from what I have experienced, and yes, mr/dr/pr works against them, they couldn't get any spells off on me, and the fact that their spell level is 'bout half their level at the most, high resists can and will help.
12-27-01, 03:45 PM
Don't listen to these guys. Use poison. Make him /duel you first, and make sure you're behind him when you accept so you can backstab him right away. Use terrain to your advantage, if he forgets to use a see invis item use hide/sneak to your advantage and he's screwed. Edgie Manasink, Assassin of Enrapture, Tarew Marr server Buntz Buffqueen, Shaman of The Dark Coalition, Sullon Zek server
And what would you do if they DID look like penises Mr. Vaslin?
12-27-01, 06:14 PM
First off you need respectable mr so you don't get snared and a see invis item so he can't hide from you to have a chance at all.
Next I suggest you use a sow potion rather than jboots so you can outrun him since more likely than not he will rely on jboots.
Next see if he will duel you indoors or in a semi confined space so he can't shadowstep all over hell. In totally open ground your chance of victory is pretty slim imo.
b) a golem wand
c) a hotkey that does /doability backstab, then /doability hide
Golem wands drop in temple of cazic thule and have 5 charges of pillage enchantment. This spell strips 4 buffs at a time.
What you do is you strip off his see invis with a few clicks of the wand. Then backstab him and hide repeatedly to get his life down.
If he has a perma see invis item on or an insta cast one equiped this will be totally useless however since sks get the see invis spell they often don't have a see invis item.
If he has see invis memed he can recast it but you can pound him while he tries to cast it. Then insta dispell him again once he gets it up. I recommend snare + slow poison rather than blind when you start meleeing him because while blinded he will likely run around depriving you of any chance of landing a hit.
If he doesn't have see invis memed he is either gonna be running or trying to disingage entirely which is where the sow potion is gonna help. If he does get away its time to reapply poison and find him. If after he gets away he starts casting from out of los you might as well zone.
01-15-02, 10:14 AM
Go full magic resist. Engulfed + Feared rogue is a dead rogue. Use instill constantly through the whole fight and hope you get him feared. Circle straffe and stay on him the whole time till he or you drops.. That's about the best advice I can think of. Use poison if you want but go for DD poison if you do. Mask0r
01-15-02, 11:53 AM
First of all, hope he's inexperienced, else you have little chance of winning.
He has a couple of ways of doing damage, some can be countered, others cannot. I'll assume both of you are moving at the same speed.
If he's smart, he'll try Darkness once, maybe twice, then stick to Heat Blood, which you can't resist. Dispell it.
He's got a 45pt drain and a 280pt drain, which is 35 and 220 in pvp respectively. The 220 one is bad, but can only be cast every 3 min, the 35 one is a waste of time mostly. He may try SS/Drain when he gets low, there isn't much you can do unless you picked favorable terrain (ie, flat, small area).
If he charges straight at you, there are a number of ways to avoid his attack and BS him. If he does this, you will win. If he's a good jouster, then you've got problems.
4. Hide and Heal
He will have see invis up (deadeye) so don't even bother with hide/sneak/BS. If he SS out of range, go hide somewere and bandaid up. If he doesn't med, instead walking around looking for you, he'll be at a disadvantage. Make sure you have some type of see invis item, Circlet of Shadows = bad for those who can't see invis.
All "tricks" about start a duel with BS, terrain choice, potions, items etc aside, pound for pound, SK as a class is far more geared for pvp than rogues. Even if you use every trick in the book, you still may lose. Edited by: Boinshar at: 1/15/02 1:53:36 pm
01-15-02, 03:31 PM
He'll have it up but will he have it memed to recast it... Even if so dispelling it should get you some free hits. Say 2 wand clicks are required to fully dispell at the start. Then you can insta click off his see invis 3 more times. Hopefully he doesn't have his weak pet up heh.
I wouldn't be trying to ID him at all if he has any mr to speak of. Not only will it be futile but it could cost you backstab oportunities.
01-27-02, 12:35 PM
Erm.. not to sound "too haughty" -- but I think Shadow Knights are gimps in duels after 55+... Hell, I'm a Rogue and I've won more fights than I've lost to Shadow Knights, with your epic, decent AC/HP, a disarm skill.. and of course semi-decent Resistances.. you'll have the upper-hand in my opinion, once you're at 50% I suggest running (not hide/sneaking) out of distance, the Shadow Knight will more than likely try to snare you, hopefully you'll be out of range or resist the spell one -- the reason for running is, a Harm Touch would bring you down really fast. Once you're certain that you're far enough out of range, or he's lost you one, begin to heal yourself with -Invigorate-.. Try to work fast, the idea is.. healing yourself to full and coming back before he's regained any mana, once he goes out of mana, he's screwed. I recommend fighting face to face, you'd more than likely get owned in a joust fight, SKs generally have high damage weapons -and- can stun. If you find a Shadow Knight that's dumb enough to fight you face to face (your typical Shadow Knight will, in hopes of getting more castings off this way).. hold right click down, run around in circles (circle him).. while hitting, disarm and backstab... and let's not forget Instill Doubt -- Kurainight died before Fear wore off one time, was a pretty fast duel. Anyway, with your epic and a decent offhand, you should be able to drop his life relatively fast, even with his lifetaps.
Monks and Rangers are the real enemies when it comes to dueling, in my opinion.
Some skill required -- Good luck.
01-28-02, 10:17 AM
For that last post from the Tunare server. Duels are much diffrent from the Pvp server. As a rogue of Vallon Zek and a SK on Sullen I can tell you from experiance. You better be prepared or be well skilled in mad evading skillz. Have poison ready if you are stalking a SK to kill and strike when in your favor (blind poison if it sticks). If the SK is well played, better have that skill of hauling a$$ to the zone. You decide the battle not the SK. Shadow Knights are one if not the toughest class to fight as a rogue. In the high end game, they are just plain nasty.
Shankee Maelstorme 51 DEF ROG VZ
Defslayer 32 HEF RNG VZ
Shafte 39 ERU SK SZ
Milelil Maelstorme 52 DEF SK DR
02-10-02, 04:01 PM
If you have l33t rogue skills you can kill the SK IF he doesnt have HT up, if he does...... "Have you ever been alone at night
Thought you heard footstep behind
And turned around and no one's there?"
02-11-02, 11:03 AM
Why do people go on about fear in PVP? It doesn't work, except for AOE fears which is a bug. If fear worked, us evil necros would never lose a fight, MR or not.
If your MR is good (100 plus) and you're close to him in level, don't worry too much about dark either, it's a two part snare/dot, and it resists like a mofo. It's rarely worth the casting time. There's a good chance golem wands might break his see-invis, but at that point he'll SS and run away if he has half a brain. Try and take him out in a dungeon or something, less pvp preparation on his part, no room to joust/use melee range bug/shadowstep, and the element of surprise will be greater. Of course if he's in a group you may have other problems after killing.
EZ_Deris the Shadowknight
02-23-02, 09:18 PM
Rogues vs SK...all I can say is you better pray he's gimp. B<
me vs. rogues with primal, etc etc i haven't lost yet.
My suggestion: Get a track ball and pray he attempts to joust you, with 1 hand on the dir pad and 1 on the track ball with a good connec, you can strafe circles around him. Oh and a bow + arrows won't hurt either since it will automatically turn you towards him when he SS's. Deris the Reaver
Legacy of Sorrow
Forever,Last and Always.
02-24-02, 03:49 PM
lol you said track ball
02-25-02, 07:15 PM
Hehe, with HP gear on, I have what, 200 less HP than an unbuffed SK my level? that's what one backstab to catch up? harm touch -- ain't that bad, two doubles, 447, 389.. starts to cast run up, 63, 74, 56, 47 broke his casting, starts again.. backstabs up, 338, 54, 72, 63 -- keep that up for about 30 seconds and see who's superior
02-25-02, 09:04 PM
Easy on paper maybe. SKs are machines. He isn't standing around like a mob, he's jousting with a phat 2hs, tapping, blood boiling and shadowstepping if need be. Not to mention that's a HT in his pocket, he isn't just happy to see you.
02-26-02, 09:33 AM
Don't you love these people who duel once or twice against some gimp and consider themselves experts at PVP ?
The original post was 49-50 SK. This SK will not be boil blooding, and the HT will only be doing 500 not counting pvp nerf. The only viable lifetap is lifeleech which has long recast time.
Fear works on regular servers if the gimp has low enough MR. Which is usually the case with gimps on "blue" servers. Those skilled at pvp (dueling) will have resist gear and fear will be useless.
Here is my expert advise from me to you on how to beat an SK.
Try getting his life all the way to 0 !
Edit: Please read our sig/personal pic rules. - ShadowCross
Edited by: Shadowcross at: 3/4/02 4:29:32 am
02-26-02, 06:02 PM
Lifeleech and jousting is no joke. There's some absurd 2hs everyone's getting in ME that's like 41/50something. Thanks, I'll pass on that one.
EZ_Deris the Shadowknight
03-03-02, 11:38 PM
Ever seen someone strafe with a track ball + dir pad? its a sight to behold. Deris the Reaver
Legacy of Sorrow
Forever,Last and Always.
03-04-02, 11:50 AM
Hehe forget a trackball, it's not easy to control if you let it spin (IE ball spinning, curse not registering)
Set your mouse sensitivity way up, make sure you can do at least 2 360s during a jump. Get used to playing with it, then you'd be just fine for circle straife. However, circle straife's more suited for FPS, not against jousters. Edited by: Boinshar at: 3/4/02 1:50:30 pm
03-04-02, 07:20 PM
I've took one or two gimps and I think I'm elite? /laugh.
I'm the guy who stands at the zone dueling random people who think they can "ownage" me, because they have elite twinkness, after about 10 victories in a row, people usually start backing down =P what level is your rogue? does he have his epic? 200+ str? more? If he does, go face to face with a shadow knight as a test, (hit backstab every time it pops up, all the extra damage helps -- Disarm is nice too, if it works).. and I can almost guarantee you'll still have half life at the end of the fight (considering he doesn't harm touch) -- Rogues can out-melee a Shadow Knight easily, follow those guides and I doubt you'll have any trouble taking one.
03-04-02, 10:58 PM
My comment wasn't directed at you. Yes it was a blanket statement and I'm sure those who have only dueled once or twice some gimp SK and rate the entire class as such know who they are, and they are whom I was referring to.
Any class can excel at dueling it just depends on the skill of the player. Gear helps but it isn't everything, skill is.
Theres also a huge difference between dueling and ganking, the latter of which is what occurs on PVP servers. I say ganking because thats usually what happens. You find someone unawares and make them dead. If they see you coming they usually run away, gate, or plug.
On the "bluebie" servers you have time to prep up, get what you need on, and memorize the spells. That doesn't happen on a PvP server. You'll just finish killing something be at low health and then the rogue will BS you, or the SK will HT you.
As for your advice, refer to the original question. The person asked about dueling a 49-50 shadowknight. It will be a close fight at that level, I remember dueling 50 rogue vs 50 tsk (me at the time) pre~kunark it was a close battle. SK's don't have much spellwise pre 50th, but post 50th they just get stronger.
Edit: Please read our sig/personal pic rules. - ShadowCross
Edited by: Shadowcross at: 3/6/02 4:26:58 am
03-05-02, 01:55 AM
"Ever seen someone strafe with a track ball + dir pad? its a sight to behold."
STOP! yer killin me here!
seriously who the hell wants to spend 12yrs mastering a trackball vrs 1min mastering a mouse...I have had the argument with trackball lovers and I have always been the one still standing. sure some peeps are very good with a track ball but track balls are just Lame controllers for fps style play.
not trying ot flame but you sound like everyone should drop their mouse and go buy a track ball.
03-05-02, 12:29 PM
well as a warrior i dueled an sk and won the trick is have high mr and resist darkness the one i dueled got me with darkness a couple times but just do your best to get close cause you can whoop any hybrid when your close up cause they cant melee nearly as well and possibly use a snare poison i guess if thats easy to get FaudanSlamdar Slamsalot
03-05-02, 03:07 PM
You only need about 60mr to resist darkness. It's an awful spell in pvp. Necros and SKs will use unresistable lines - leeches, bloodwarmers, splurt, etc to do their magical damage. Beyond a certain level you just can't count on slowing people down anymore and just have to deal with it.
03-06-02, 04:24 AM
Heres what to do... Put your head between your legs and kiss your A$$ Goodbye
~Crrow "Look mom Cazic Thule followed me home. Can I keep him?"
EZ_Ceescrit da Bossalini
03-06-02, 08:50 AM
pffft, I've had darkness land on me through 120 MR... but I play on a server with a 8 lvl PvP range.
Poisons are @#%$ broken
Golem Wands are your friend. Expect to blow at least two of them in a serious fight vs. casting class/hybrid.
If its a duel you should agree not to use HT, its just not fair.
I've killed my fair share of even or higher level SKs. It just takes lots of dispells, bow kiting, and careful jousting.
MR > HPs > AC <u>~Ceescrit da Bossalini</u>
-=Commander in Chief=-
Roag of Vallon Zek (PvP Teams)
Detroit Roags find you. Mug you.
03-06-02, 09:17 AM
Sure I won't use HT if you don't use your primary hand. I always liked duels which set conditions. I'd agree to them all then kill them using what I wasn't supposed to.
I once had this enchanter talk shite then refuse to duel after he learned I had 150 MR unbuffed. He'd only duel unless I removed my MR gear otherwise it wasn't fair. I agreed to his conditions but kept my gear on anyways and stood there for awhile as he cast away and nothing landed, his debuffs did but I got rid of them.
Then he charmed some green con mob which I dispelled, then FD and he had to run from the mob and me. I let the mob finish him just to be nice.
By the way on "bluebie" servers if you fear someone other people can kill that person. Try it out its kinda fun. If you notice two lowbies dueling and they can fear, ask one of them to fear the other then you can start hitting the guy.
Formerly Hideo Skulhammer 60th Troll Gravelord
03-06-02, 07:14 PM
I actually think that I have a better chance of taking a Shadow Knight.. 55 + than I do.. pre-50 =P I can actually go face to face with one and slap him around now, back in the day.. I had to run around hoping he wouldn't snare/darkness me =P
03-06-02, 07:34 PM
Not to be too critical but what person, other then no skilled gimp would stand face to face and hit melee, with a pure melee class. House of the Banned
03-10-02, 12:14 AM
Snare/slow poison, /disc deadeye, or /disc duelist, even with his harm touch, the SK has already lost, I don't care what you people say, I've won the last 5 fights pretty easy =P if you were on my server you'd know that, I ain't got nothing to prove to you.
03-10-02, 09:07 AM
Your poison won't land on a geared SK. When he sees you discipline he will float off with bobbing corpse and sow pot until it wears. Then he'll joust you with a huge 2hs.
Not a smart thing to say on the safehouse, but I think a smart SK can beat a roag unless something bad happens.
03-10-02, 02:06 PM
Zerazia, I admit sks below the 55 mark arent that great duelers, but when a SK hits 55 he gets DS of 12-13 pts of dmg. When the sks hits level 60 he gets COTA which adds another 5 dmg, and that eats any melee class alive. When i duel any melee class i barely even attack the whole fight, i have RS3 i run around and lifetap, even if the melee can catch up and hit me, hes loosing lots more hp just by evening attacking. I have dueled tons of times, dueled 60 rogue last nite, didnt even loose a bub of HP. Lifetaps keep us up in health greatly, and if we even go below the halfway point in HP, use leech curse disc and it owns the rogue and its basically a CH for the SK, even if that doesnt work the SK can go to last resort and use HT, which i rarely ever used in duels. DS+lifetaps gets every melee, only melee that can stand the DS is monk with T staff, which that doesnt even work that well. Been dueling on most my time on EQ, never lost to a rogue =) So i think if you beat sks, it would have to be one below 55, or be a total newb
03-10-02, 09:33 PM
/nod, I'm not saying Shadow Knights suck at dueling, in fact, I'd say they're the best class at it, but they aren't UNBEATABLE as some people seem to think they are, lost 2 duels with one last night, won 1, and I was damned proud too.
03-11-02, 08:29 AM
Where was the last place you dueled. Based on what you say it sounds like you have your opponent stand face to face at the zoneline of a dungeon. Can you say gimp ?
Quote: 447, 389.. starts to cast run up, 63, 74, 56, 47 broke his casting, starts again.. backstabs up, 338, 54, 72, 63
Quote: I'm the guy who stands at the zone dueling random people ... If he does, go face to face with a shadow knight as a test...
Now that doesn't prove anything. Obviously a pure melee is going to win over a hybrid in toe to toe which is absolutely pointless.
I had a 60th warrior guildmate with epic, full kael get pissed off one day because of that. "Duels aren't all that running around crap," she said. Would only duel if I stood toe to toe rofl.
Quote: So i think if you beat sks, it would have to be one below 55, or be a total newb
Edited by: Hideo Fulcrum at: 3/11/02 10:33:09 am