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View Full Version : Dueling Tips from Zabin Masenko **Erollisi Marr**


EZ_Zabin Masenko
01-10-02, 02:29 PM
I've been dueling since way back I can rememeber, and I have learned alot of tricks in the bag. I have beaten everyclass (except beastlords, havn't dueled one yet). I'm known in my server for dueling alot in East Commons. I'm lvl 55,(I don't have epic), and I've beaten people all around my lvl from 50-60 that have epics also. Which proves it's more skill then armor. I'll go through all the classes (except beastlords) on what to do.

Basic Stuff: Jboots, Mrylo Buffs, Gobby Earring, Bracer of Hidden...etc

--Warriors--
They are probably one of the easiest guys to duel for a rogue, next to the wizard. Pure melee str and alot of hp.

**Jousting Warriors**
Equipment-- Any Regen type, High dmg weapons
(Fungi Tunic, Belt of great turtle)
Oh how much I hate when they do that, Tantors tusk seems to be what they like, but you can still win. Poison is all I can say, ensnare one is good(Paralyize Poison/System Shock), gives you the speed advantage.

**Note**--Poison fails it doesnt matter, just makes it easiar

You bring out your highest dmg weapon in main for backstabing, (doesn't matter what the delay is) and the strongest off-hand dmg you can use(I like Scimitar of Emerald Dawn or Long Sword of Ethernal Engergy) Hope your good at front stabbing, cause that's the only way you can win. Keep doing it, wait till backstab pops up, then run in BS while running through and turn on attack, then turn it off, and wait till bs pops up again (repeat). It all depends on bs. Get high ones like 200++ on double bs, or even 300++. You will be doing more dmg then them. I've done 700dmg++ on a warrior with a good bs and attack. Double BS for 305, 317, and Quaded for 35,39,75, 68. Practice is good, and you will always win.

**Duel Wielding Warriors**

Equipment-- Regular Weapons, Any regen type
Can I you say ownage? Easy right here, your dmg output is alot higher, so you should win. Circle Strafe is the best technique. If they stand by the wall, have your daggers ready, and just annoy the crap out of them. Keep throwing it, till they run after you, then do the front stab technique. Works everytime.

--Monks--
Most dmging melee in the front. Your rival is this class. I will be honest and say I have trouble with these guys.


**Jousting Monks**

Equipment--Any regen type, high dmg weapons
Refer to Jousting Warrior Section

**Duel Wielding Monks**

Equipment-- Regular Weapons, Any regen type
Refer to Duel Wielding Warriors

--Rangers--
Spells + Thorns = Hard
I don't know why some people think rangers suck, they are as equally good in dueling as rogues are.

**Jousting Rangers**

Equipment-- Any regen type, Highest Dmg Weapons, Resist--Magic Resist 100++
Not sure why they would, but if they do Refer to Warrior Jousting section. Don't worry about thorns when jousting.

**Duel Wielding Rangers**

Equipment-- Regular Weapons, Any regen type, Pumice stone/Golem Wand
Resist--Magic Resist 100++

Dispell there dmg shield 1st, most important, run away so they can't see you, then pumice them. Or if you have golem wand, click on it once, and then start circle strafing them. I prefer golem wand tho, pumice will be a little hard to do. **Refer to Warriors duel wielding section for more info**

--Paladin/Shadow Knight--
Hybrid class are hard, I would prefer jousting them.
Equipment-- Any type of regen, High Dmg weapons
Resist -- 100 magic (pal/shd) 100disease (shd only)

I actually don't mind if they have there buffs on, but when the shadow knight gets to that lvl where they can you either pumice/wand him. Pumice you will have to run for awhile and do it while they are far. Ok here is when you start the fight poison them 1st with and ensare poison.
**Note**
If poison doesn't stick, doesn't matter you can still win, would have made it easiar tho.

Pallies tend to stun alot, if magic resist is good, you don't have to worry about it. Joust both of them, right when they start casting, run up to them and attack with all you got, till they are done casting. Then run out and start jousting again. Repeat the process. Ignore the lifetap from shadow knights, you can't resist them. Just deal with it. Ignore the pet also, can't do anything, mostly misses it's attack.

--Wizard--
Very easy class. With good resist you will own them.
Equipment: Resist gear, ( full Blue diamond armor w/ Rune bone fork) Throwing daggers, Any regen type
Resist: 100++ magic,fire,cold

Wizards will run, which is why we have throwing daggers, use it while they are running, Wizard will have buffs on them like Mana skin (rune like effect). Basically all you do is stick with them, summon enough daggers to throw, cause they run alot. Once he starts casting attack with all you got, and land a backstab. One good one and the match is already won. Repeat Process

--Enchies--
Very easy class. Same stragety as wizards, but don't need as much gear.
Equipment: Resist gear, ( full Blue diamond armor w/ Rune bone fork) Throwing daggers, Any regen type
Resist: 100++ magic

Ignore pet, you will out run it. When they are pretty high lvl, they will have a dmg shield, just ignore it. They have less hp, and you will win. Same stragety as wizard.

--Magicians--
Nice nukes + Good Pet = Very Hard
I have troube with these guys as along with monks.
Equipment: Resist gear, ( full Blue diamond armor w/ Rune bone fork) Any regen type
Resist: 100++ magic,fire,(depending on pet cold resist also)

Try poisons, usually magicians gear don't have poison resist. If it sticks then you win, don't you can still win.
Dmg shield is very strong, you need you get a good bs on him, then you win. Don't throw daggers, because of dmg shield. Try going for caster 1st, if he runs, attack pet, try to kill it fast, then right when caster starts casting, run and attack him. Hopefully you will interrupt him. And he will start running again. Repeat process.

--Shamans--
This class is very deadly also. Dmg shield, potions, pet, and uber buffs.

Equipment: Resist gear, ( full Blue diamond armor w/ Rune bone fork) Any regen type
Resist: 100++ magic,fire,cold,poison,disease

**Refer to Magician stragety**

--Necro--
Lifetap and pet. Also a hard class.
Equipment: Resist gear, ( full Blue diamond armor w/ Rune bone fork) Throwing daggers, Any regen type
Resist: 100++ magic,disease, poison

What I do cause I know I won't be able to poison ensnare necro, I do it to the pet. Then attack pet, wait till necro casts, then you run up and attack him.

--Druid--
Dmg shield, good buffs also. Nukes are deadly and so are disease.
Equipment: Resist gear, ( full Blue diamond armor w/ Rune bone fork) Any regen type, throwing daggers
Resist: 100++ magic,cold,disease, 150++ fire

You will need a pumice stone for this battle, **PREFERED** stone golem wand, to take out the hp buff and the dmg shield fast. Pumice/Wand him 1st, then you can attack. Have daggers ready, when he runs start chucking them, most likely he will try to cast his dmg shield again. No need to worry about disease you will resist most of them, and that's like 1/2 there mana bar right there. I think they were only able to cast one on me, but I think it was irresitible, not sure. Pretty much like wizard stragety.

--Clerics--
Easy now, but if lvl 60 very hard.

Equipment: Resist gear, ( full Blue diamond armor w/ Rune bone fork) Throwing daggers, Any regen type
Resist: 100++ magic

Complete heal at 60 is very hard to interrupt. I lost to a lvl 60 cleric cause he had 9th ring, and he did 2 complete heals on me that battle. I lost cause of dmg shield. You can take it off, but it's a waste. 9th ring is instant cast. They are pretty easy, fight them like a wizard if they run. Fight them like a duel wielding warrior if they stand still. Pumice is nice for this one, those hp/ac buffs can be frustraiting.

==========Ends Here==================


That's it for the guide, I'll probably add a beastlord section later on. Once a high enough beastlord is in my server and likes to duel me. Hope this helps anyone having trouble with any class. I learned from my loses, I still lose now, but I mostly win. Research or watch other people duel, duel alot, practice makes perfect. Takes time to get used to these things.


Zabin Masenko 55 BlackGuard Edited by: Zabin Masenko at: 1/11/02 8:30:48 pm

EZ_Jondin Sottovoce
01-11-02, 08:28 AM
Did I miss Bards somewere in that list? I'd like to see your primary tactic for them. If I know how you plan to beat me, I'd like to prepare for that type of assult.

I have never lost to a rogue.

Tactics I have used are very simple:

DS: I can get my DS to 50+ without too much help. Not to mention the resist songs i'm playing adds extra DS.

Keep Rogue in front: You know the drill, if you can't backstab your dead.

I'm sure its not supprising but an epified rogue on Brell, and I decided to duel streight up melee. I won, but we are plate wears that should be no suprise. We tried again with my DS up (100+ by the way ) it wasn't even a match, I never lost a bub.

We tried again balls to the wall no rules except he who is left standing wins, before SS bp it was all but trivial depending on the tactic. Now that I have SS bp I can melee with little effort as well.

I'm no big time PvP, as a matter of fact I'm not very good at it, but non-the-less I'd like to see your tactic for killing a bard.

Edited by: Jondin Sottovoce at: 1/17/02 10:11:12 am

EZ_AstaKhaan
01-11-02, 12:18 PM
Well, being a shaman i only read your 'vs shaman' section. Seeing you listing fire resist as being important, but not mentioning poison or disease at all sort of makes me wonder if you are playing the same game i am. /boggle --------------------
Asta Khaan
Defiant Shaman, VZ

EZ_Zabin Masenko
01-11-02, 06:27 PM
Yeah sorry I wrote this while I was in school, I did forget to put stuff up. Will update shaman stuff. Will add bard also.

EZ_Garaddar the Weezard
01-11-02, 08:19 PM
hehe, wizards are alot harder than u make them out to be.. you obviously havent dueled a good one. U wont resist our lures, and shadowstep/fade/yonder is our friend.

EDIT: Please keep your sig within our Forum Rules (link top right corner of your screen) Edited by: Fricka at: 1/15/02 2:04:57 am

EZ_Ketocon
01-12-02, 02:34 AM
you so full of it .. my level 54 duel mule is a mage and well check this out

I have a 2 second 450 (havnt played mage in a while) .. this is what i do if i were to duel you

Cast Pet: Water, Level 54, Backstabs
Burnout
Dmg Shield
Expedience (sp) [pet jboots]
Would cast phantom armor on myself (regen)

I would NEVER start a dule unless i have some space between you and me. First thing i would cast is malise.. keep spaming the malise cast on you till it lands.. when it lands i cast Malosi.. when thats in your done and dead ..

if you chase after me i will straif jump run in circles while my pet backstabs you and hits you for his normal 50 dmg.. If i were to fight in EC and you were to run up a hill to avoid my bolt your getting dotted and ill let you die to the dot

only reason you beat a mage is because he was a newbie

EZ_Teuvic
01-12-02, 08:51 PM
Garaddar, why do you ahve 244 int? I think the smartest thing to do is substitute some of that int only gear for mana items... just a suggestion.

EZ_Lirin TZ
01-12-02, 09:55 PM
int is now capped at 255... Liringlas Lookinglass
HWW~ Bard of the 56th Song
Fennin Ro
Mystical Prophecy

EZ_Zabin Masenko
01-13-02, 09:35 PM
Ketocon, Malosi has never stuck on me, my resist on magic is 167. And if you ran out around letting your pet attack me, I wouldn't run and take it, I would kill the pet 1st. Read my stragety, when you start casting i'll just attack you. I've fought people like you, I know exactly what to do.


Zabin Masenko

EZ_Jondin Sottovoce
01-14-02, 08:40 AM
Ketocon

Mez pet (causes it to poof in 18 seconds)

After that its Buh Bye. I can think of 3 ways to kill you now, not to mention things that I may have to adjust to ingame (like dispelling the hell out of you.

Edited by: Jondin Sottovoce at: 1/17/02 10:10:36 am

EZ_RoguePitts
01-14-02, 04:49 PM
Hmm, I'd still like to learn how to duel a bard. Ive seen them duel and they look pretty tough...

EZ_Rebu
01-15-02, 07:49 PM
Trueshotting Ranger will kick your Rogue butt ).

Kicks mine too hehe. Duelling for Rogues is actually VERY VERY hard to be good at. There are techniques for doing Wars and Monks, but any class that casts is pretty brutal to Rogues (except wizards ). Wizards have alot of the same probs Rogues do in duelling because of the 1 dimensional nature of their class.

All I can say is that if anone ever tells you "Do this in order to duel you" don't take them up on it. As in "I'll duel you if you don't use poisons." Rogues are Duel handicapped enough as it is.

EZ_Rebu
01-15-02, 08:06 PM
Quote: Keep Rogue in front: You know the drill, if you can't backstab your dead

FYI, Bad verant coding allows Rogues to land a well timed BS while ALWAYS facing an opponent. First couple of times I land a few on an opponent that doesn't realize rogues can do this they first say, "WTF!" Then try and run off opening themselves up to so many more BS's and then cry that "You Cheat."

It never gets old

EZ_Aerimus Shadowborn
01-16-02, 06:16 PM
2 things...

First to the mage, hope you have enough pr to resist poison. Also I hope you don't get your ass beat while your casting that easily resistable spell )). Of far more concern would be the mage who didn't cast at all and just ran in circles but ya know a lot of mages are just not lame enough to do this.

Second to the bard, Is this 100+ ds due to the bug that allows bards to stack things that shouldn't be stacked. In other words isn't this ability due to disapear when they fix the bug for good this time? Could you break down that DS for me? I see 2 ds songs for a total of 26dmg in the spdat so I'm assuming the rest is from items.

EZ_Jondin Sottovoce
01-17-02, 08:12 AM
Aeri.....Yep it is. Although we could get a DS up to 80 without using the bug, the 157 (max I've seen so far) is due to a bug.

EZ_Aerimus Shadowborn
01-18-02, 04:13 PM
What are the component parts that add up to 80?

EZ_Lirin TZ
01-18-02, 06:32 PM
epic bard singing two songs = dont feel like doing the math, so ill call it 30, tho its more i belive.
shammy potion = 30
mage ds = 33
bracer = 9
call of earth = 4

total = 106

thats the basics of any DS stratagy. Liringlas Lookinglass
HWW~ Bard of the 57th Song
Fennin Ro
Mystical Prophecy

EZ_Boinshar
01-18-02, 11:45 PM
Bards can do 46, or maybe 52. Puretone helps, although I don't remember if the 46 or 52 is before or after.

EZ_Lirin TZ
01-18-02, 11:59 PM
ok, thanks for that. i dont have my epic, and i didnt feel like doing the math on it, so i just used a conservitave guess =) Liringlas Lookinglass
HWW~ Bard of the 57th Song
Fennin Ro
Mystical Prophecy

EZ_Aerimus Shadowborn
01-19-02, 08:22 PM
Outside buffs from mages or rangers (call of earth) would be a bad thing to do for a fair duel and not something to measure bards by in pvp.

Shammy potion and bracer effect are removable with a golem wand. If you want to take golem wands out of the set up then you might as well give the rogue a ds potion as well since a grim aura earing and jboots can keep the bard from dispelling it without wands being used.

The songs you ds with are a base of 26 I think. I'm assuming the 46 or 52 has to do with epic and or puretone.

So your looking at bards wielding weapons from...

lvl 1-24 no ds
25-32 13 ds
33-54 26 ds
55-59 without epic 26 ds
55-59 with epic 46-52 possibly - puretone
60 without epic 26 x puretone modifer
60 with epic 46-52 possibly higher if puretone isn't in that number.

Dueling a bard outdoors is foolish because you will never catch him if he doesn't want you to. If the bard were to stand in one place in order for the DS to do the work Id recommend relying on backstabs more than melee dmg. Wouldn't really matter though because if they were getting behind on hp they would just run around some more and regen.

You could try poisoning them but if they are smart they will have good pr from basic gear and songs. In addition they can shadowstep away. If you got lucky and had a poison stun proc (renux sword) at the right time you might kill one while they were stunned but I wouldn't count on it.

Duelist would seem to offer a better chance if your that high. Basicly you have a couple of different ways you could try it.

If you could get a poison stun proc to stick that would be a good time.

You could trigger it when you had their back for a moment after you both got down sorta low on hp and hope to finish them before they could react and run around till your duelist period ended.

The reason he didn't include a dueling bards section is most likely because if they know how to play more than mannasong they will be near impossible to finish anywhere selos and shadowstep songs function. Then again I don't think they should be that dangerous to rogues with good resists.

If your resists suck you will of course be owned hard.

EZ_RoguePitts
01-23-02, 04:19 PM
*is now scared of Bards*

EZ_Jondin Sottovoce
01-24-02, 10:53 AM
Amplification now works. For those of you who don't know it increases our singing songs by 1.9 2.0 modifier. Its undetermined yet, but we know its no less than 1.9. Our epic (although works on everysong UNLIKE amplification) has a 1.8 Modifier. The song last through 3 twists meaning we don't have to refresh it like every other song. Not bad huh? Well about this....Epic + Amplification stacks. Meaning you have a minimum of 3.7 modifier.

Lets look at a few stats:

Quote: <u>From EQDiva:</u>

Here's my tests at level 57:

***********************************
Psalm of Cooling (level 33)

Sung
+10 damage shield
+5 AC
+67 FR

w/Epic
+18 damage shield
+9 AC
+120 FR

w/Amplification
+19 damage shield
+11 AC
+127 FR

w/Epic + Amp
+27 damage shield
+14 AC
+180 FR

***********************************
Verses of Victory (level 50)

Sung
+20 AC
+27 ATK
+30 STR
+30 AGI

Sung w/Epic
+37 AC
+47 ATK
+53 STR
+53 AGI

Sung w/Amplification
+39 AC
+50 ATK
+56 STR
+56 AGI

Sung w/Epic and Amplification
+56 AC
+71 ATK
+80 STR
+80 AGI


***********************************
Cassindra's Elegy (level 44)

Sung
+ 15 INT/WIS

w/Epic
+26 INT/WIS

w/Amp
+28 INT/WIS

w/Epic + Amp
+40 INT/WIS


EDIT (Adding the Bellows)
*****************************
Brusco's Boastful Bellow (12 song)
Sung
29 pts damage

w/Epic
52 pts damage

w/Amp
55 pts damage

w/Epic + Amp
78 pts damage


*****************************
Brusco's Boastful Bellow (12 song)

w/epic
399 pts damage

w/Amp
421 pts damage

w/Epic + Amp
599 pts damage

EZ_solkan darkmind
01-26-02, 08:59 PM
Enc
Ignore pet, you will out run it. When they are pretty high lvl, they will have a dmg shield, just ignore it. They have less hp, and you will win. Same stragety as wizard.

uhh people use pets when dueling rogues? nahh...dont need em, and if your being fear kited,your not running far

solkan darkmind
a boy and his epic snake