View Full Version : fellow lazy-assed rogues unite
10-24-02, 09:25 AM
I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in this boat. So Planes of Power (and supposedly a completely reworked poison system) are live now, and here I am with over 100 regular + AA levels combined and next to nothing for make poison skill.
I never heard one convincing argument before PoP that there was any point to poison making for PvE servers. The lack of stacking, mindless farming of greens, and the general lameness of the "put stuff in container and click combine until your fingers hurt" pretty much made me never bother. The GrandMaster's Vial was kinda nice, but definitely more a reward for people who already labored up to high skill than any sort of convincing reason to start on poison making.
In one of the threads on the Safehouse regarding what we wanted to see for rogues in PoP I put down "make me regret for just one second that at level 60 I have next to no poison making ability". Well I guess they did just that hehe.
My question is for my fellow lazy assed rogues. What are you going to do now?
1) bite the bullet and start farming greens to get the skill all the way up
2) sit and wait for new recipes and parses using the new procs to come in to see if they're as good as many people expect them to be
3) screw poisons and go backstab more stuff
I'm leaning between #1 and #2 at the moment =/
10-24-02, 09:49 AM
You should helplessly pay insanely high prices and be forever be dependent on rogues that can make them for you.
60th Season Assassin
You don't have to farm a single mob to get your skill from 1-250. In fact, you don't even have to farm greens to get useful poisons to use in anything from every day soloing/grouping to high end raiding. The best example of this is Spine Break. All store bought components (formerly in WK, now also in PoK), and 50% slow, 95% snare, lasts for 40 seconds, 99.9% of the time.
Seems like 40 seconds is pretty weak, but when you start realizing that the poison works on everything from Eom's in Vex Thal to Flurry drakes in NToV, and it sticks with no debuffs, it means a lot less death. If a shaman is trying to slow a mob that's already 50% slow, he's more likely to survive a resist or two. If the mob is slowed 50% on incoming, how hard is it to make sure that the main tank stays up?
Hell, in those big 5+ mob pulls in Vex, or the jump across to Va Xi AHR, where you port into 4 mobs, imagine how easy those encounters become if 4 rogues jump in and slow each one right off the bat. And it's not even close to assured death either. 1 evade puts the mob back on whoever is supposed to be tanking it, and if that fails, escape is an option if you feel you can't hang for a couple seconds with a slowed mob.
The only problem is space. But that's less of an issue if all your rogues actually use the poison, and carry enough for 20 each. That's 4 slots that they have to sacrifice, and a container. Not all that bad, when you consider what you get out of it.
So, there's your convincing argument.
10-24-02, 09:56 AM
As a high level rogue, if I had to begin make poisons, I would just follow the vendor purchased route to skillups. This assumes you have the plat to do it. It will cost you some plat, but will save you days of farming. Get you dex up high and the skillups seem to come fast. It will even begin to pay for itself as you get up above 190 or so.
Orlun, 59 Rogue, xev <a href="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=359886">Orlun's Gear</a>
10-24-02, 09:57 AM
hehe that would work if you or my server i sell bags and bags of poisons already :P so my shop will be open to you lol .. -- Neijek Domisilva --
-- Assassin of Bristelbane --
-- Grandmaster Toxiologist --
-- Beloved of Velondra Domislva --
10-24-02, 09:59 AM
Quote:The only problem is space
gotta disagree with that. you left out how much money it's gonna cost him :P
10-24-02, 10:00 AM
Good point, plus having poisons around to mess with is just plain fun, alot of people who dont play rogues know nothing about the skill and what can be done with it. Good way to shut up a loud mouth monk or warrior who types /d too. Sheistyelf- Dark Elf Assassin
-Grand Master Poison Maker
Your spinebreak poison has been resisted.
How exactly will that shut up a monk?
10-24-02, 10:31 AM
Umm you can get from 0-250 in make poison by training with rogue trainers..... so do something easy to 100ish, and then train as much as you can. Let's see... you get 300 training points from lvls 1 to 60, and I doubt rogues train more than 50 skills. So that leaves you with, 250 points and the plat it'll cost to get up there.
I would recommend training with Stanos.
Quote:Oh no, not Justice Fruit Pies! The delicious fruit pie you would have to be crazy not to like.
I R teh suk tank
10-24-02, 10:51 AM
Actually, training your way up will probably cost just as much in the long run as mixing your way up. <img src="http://www.gaijindesign.com/lawriemalen/jedi/jedimaster.jpg" width="285" height="123" border="0">
<a href=http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=189916 >Gorumm's tools of the trade</a>
10-24-02, 11:09 AM
Not so sure about the pre 200 stage.. i remeber i only spent 2kish but i from 200 to 250 i started with 4k thinking i would blow it and banked 4823 (somehting like that) meaning for the really expensive skill up with traders (200 +) you save lot's of pp by doing it the hard way. :) -- Neijek Domisilva --
-- Assassin of Bristelbane --
-- Grandmaster Toxiologist --
-- Beloved of Velondra Domislva --
10-24-02, 11:38 AM
I really wouldn't have a problem with needing 250 skill and a GM vial if it weren't for the fact that you need to be lvl 60 to get the skill to do so. Perhaps we don't need that level of skill to make the poisons, but it looks like we do for the various quests that are coming out. I've been working on poisons whenever I could, purposely hunting zones that drop poison components. I've deticated half my bank space to poison bits, so that I can raise the skill in smaller steps. Unfortunately at level 53, I can't raise my skill to 250. Even if I had the money around to buy the gems I'd need, I couldn't make my GM vial.
Guess I'll finish maxing out for my level, and wait the next year or so it'll take to get to level 60 (at my current rate) so that I can make something that was one of the deciding factors in buying the expansion. Malaclypse, Redeemed 53 Barb Rogue
MadMalik Fenderson, 44 Troll Shaman
It cost me about 3k to go from 30 to my level cap at 240, plus a few skill points for the 180 to 200 stretch. Somewhere in the 210s I started making money instead of losing it on Spirit of Sloth. Did the whole thing in a weekend.
10-24-02, 12:13 PM
Here's my guess on how things will work:
+ The new recipes will have high trivials, but will be combined in a good old morter and pestle. They'll be makeable and useable by rogues who aren't at/near 250.
+ The Renux bag - which requires the GM trophy and near 250 skill - will only serve to make 5 or 10 dose poisons out of single doses. Thus, only top-end poisoners can perform that service. I'm guessing that only the new recipes can be combined into multi-dose vials.
+ The new poisons will be sellable, and rogue-only. Therefore, it should be possible to trade them to friends, and buy/sell them in the Bazaar.
+ The lower-tier poison ingredients are probably the new things dropping in Kael, FG, and wherever else. The higher tier are probably from PoP zones, and maybe a few of the toughest old zones.
If my guesses are true, rogues who don't want to make poison will still be able to use them just fine. It just might cost a lot, if you're not friends with a poison-maker. Bayler - 59th rank Swashbuckler - Xev
Tessally - 51st flicker Nun of Solusek Ro - Xev
10-24-02, 12:30 PM
Just finished my skill the other day, from 190-250 cost me 600 pp in FV. Spirit of Sloth is your friend and sells back for quite a bit. The real money it cost me was the two attempts on my GMAV. The Everlastin Assassin<br>
<a href="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=67594" target ="blank">My Profile</a>Edited by: Ginluvin at: 10/24/02 2:31:27 pm
10-24-02, 06:11 PM
It shoudl be noted that the poP poisions are basically clickable spells. they cast in 2 seconds and last their durations. therefore a lazy rogue could simply buy 5 dose ( now) and later 10 dose ( when found) of both lesser and greater poisions and be no worse for the wear. In fact the 10k or more you save by not skilling up could buy you quite a few poisions.
I recon 500-750pp to not be at all out of the ordinary for a 5 dose of lesser since they cost roughly 40pp per to make + the cost ( effort) to get a Seal and such to combine.
Depending on how rare the "optional " ingredients of poisions are will determine how expensive greater and 10 dose ones will be for purchasing.
Vurin- 61 rogue of Dro Edited by: Zyke at: 10/24/02 8:12:05 pm
10-24-02, 08:45 PM
I made money making spirit of the sloth... <Br>Castina uth`Matar <Br>60th Assassin <Br> Clan Ta Veren <BR> Terris-Thule<Br>Castina, from the interesting approach you have had to this discussion so far, I would expect that if someone held up a very pointy thing in front of you, placed arrows in such a way to direct you to the pointy end and erected a large flashing neon sign saying "This way to the point", then you might have difficulty seeing it.
<BR>Castina's crap : http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=142269
10-25-02, 06:15 AM
ive done mine in 3 days. when i first started my rogue i made poison with the mushrooms/plants that drop in solb off kobolds, and got to about 36 before being bored crazy.. then i came to this forum and read one of the threads. its here somewhere. raising poison quick and cheap. i raised it to 170 spending 3500pp max, mostly because i ignored reccomended levels and went ahead on harder poisons. then to 250 i ended up making about 200pp, after buying an opal encrusted stien and some other charisma gear.
the terrible part of the whole experience is sitting there in FV bored silly. sometimes i had other rogue company. but generally we were too busy clicking to talk.
heres my math with 110 cha
2 plats, 6 gold, 2 silver, 5 copper for the suspension
2 plats, 5 gold, 2 silver, 0 copper for 2x creeper ivy
6 plats, 3 gold, 0 silver, 0 copper sealed vial
11 plats, 2 gold
with 110 cha i was selling successful combos for 14.2 plats. so i made 2 and a half plat per successful combine. the rough thing is you're gonna fail quite a bit till you get to 210 or 220. but the amount of time youll spend raising those last 30 points.. youll make money too.
i was too lazy to visit stanos and i did it all by hand. im at 250 now... it hurts.. youll get 20 combines and no increase.. then sometimes 2 in a row. havent done my gm vial yet but thats in the works :)
someone above talked about the slow potions.. do they really work? resisted much i mean? and stack? on mobs like telk where a shaman rarely rarely sticks slow.. can we? i was going to buy a fester for ntov flurriers, but ill use poison if it works well. fester for dex debuff i meant hehe :) - kodimoo, the rarely serious bovine.
10-25-02, 10:38 AM
LMAO @ thread </font>
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