What twisted person designed advance rogue poison

[EZ_Thisle Down]

I thought poison was bad before but this is crazy!

For example "Anger of Incapacitation":
3 mob dropped items (research comp, pelt, wax flower)
1 item out in the middle of no where (etheral suspension) - was it so wrong to put this on a vendor in PoK?
11 base components(clay,water,spell comp,pelt,wax flower,amber,gnome spirit,etheral susp,firing sheet,sketch,celest solvent)
7 combines (pottery x2, brewing, poison x4)

Give me a break! Edited by: Thisle Down at: 11/2/02 7:18:00 pm

[EZ_MiasmaVapors]

Bought a few stacks of Scent of Marr from the PoK poison vendor this afternoon. Has this changed?

[EZ_disbursingclerk]

Wondering, how does it sounds an AA skill makes poison applied to weapon never run out? only applied to user, not weapon. similiar to ranger's unlimited arrow?

Cause I was reading about the outdamaged by ranger thread, but its too long to post the idea there:P [0 Shaman] Unknown (Iksar)

[EZ_Rune the Borrower]

Not only is the process of combining everything together an expensive pain in the butt, you have to several painful quest you must do to get the equipment to even make the poisons.

One quest I'm ready to finish you have to do for Renux. Yes, the rogue you had to kill for your epic. By design, every rogue has to basically destroy their Circle of Unseen Hands faction to get his epic. Now you MUST be ally to them to do this quest. This quest requires an Eyerazzia which, while a sure drop requires a Fear break capable party to aquire and most rogues destroyed any they may have looted about 3 expansions ago. Hell, I looted my Eyerazzia pre-Knark and didn't even use it then. This quest also requires you to destroy a GMAV.

Another quest you need to do requires the turn in of the very rare Shrieking Alpheiss (sp?) from Hate. This weapon is also one I looted years ago but, other than a ranged item to increase DEX (arguably useless) it was never equipped. Also required is the Burning Rapier. The BR is in todays game another weapon that most rogues will never use. While the quest is considered a "rite of passage" in the Root Cellar the weapon was probably used only by 2nd generation pre-Kunark rogues. I know that mine never shed any blood because I had better weapons by the time the quest was implemented.

These new poisons had better be worth the effort. Tedious quests, tedious production and high cost SHOULD result in poisons that not only have great effects but they had better stack with everone else's damage, dots and debuffs and never be resisted.

But guess what, they don't at this time. The bard proc-enducing song (Battle Cry of the Va-Shir?) overwrites poisons. Click on your poison, bard starts to sing for the warrior in the group, kiss 30pp and a half hour preptime goodbye. The same is true of Werewolf form or any spell that puts a proc onto the player. I understand that the proc on the warriors epic will overwrite the entire line of detaunt poisons. While the debuffs can coexists with with some others there are definite conflicts that MUST be resolved.

Actually, all of these issues MUST be resolved before the new ADVANCED poisoning system will be of much use to anyone that cares about how they spend their time and platinum. Runehammer Trollsbane
Assassin of Cazik-Thule

The Oldest Rogue on Cazik-Thule

"I yam what I yam."
Popeye

[Squink McPoke]

With the exception of old world pelts, you can purchase in PoK everything that you need to make the advanced vials and ethereal suspension and both resins.

You do not *have* to stack the poisons, that is an optional quest. With the new mortar and pestle, carrying around a M&P is no longer such a hassle, as you aren't losing inventory space, so making poisons on the fly doesn't have as many drawbacks as it once did.

You no longer have to sit down to apply them (hello sit aggro), you get 10+ minutes use out of them as opposed to previously having a single chance (right at the beginning of the fight, when aggro isn't usually as placed yet) to use that one poison.

Now, even if you do not do any of the optional quests, rogues have access to many new poisons that are relatively inexpensive to use (unless you buy all the poison components off vendors, or use the tinkering route to make the vials), on the order of under 10pp per use, assuming using mob dropped or friend-given components.

On some servers, you may even be able to buy 10-shot poisons in the bazaar.

I have personal beefs with requiring 3-expansion old weapons which many destroyed long ago, in the quests. But overall, PoP poisons open new options to every rogue that wants to use them. There are less expensive ways to go about acquiring the new vials, and if you do the optional (at least as far as we know now) quest for the seal, you don't even have to re-make vials if you make 5 and 10 shot poisons.

Overall, I generally like the new poisons. The discovery phase was very fun, and involved a lot of people, and I have a feeling that we haven't even found everything yet. But, more to come or not, I'm more happy with poisons now than I was 2 weeks ago. -- Squink McPoke, 61 Assassin, Lanys T'vyl. Hat.
-- <The Halfling Inquisition>

[EZ_DominionAssassin]

Yes! the new poisons are a big hassle..
If yer not up to working for em, you don't get em.

Yes! there are old weapons needed that we've all destroyed.. Go get them again there is exp to be gotten while doing so.

I have been doing poison quests since I got PoP and loving it. I've had a really good time doing it.

BUT.. Is it worth it?

With 265dex (fos of course) I get avg 20+ procs off a 10 minute poison as long as the pulls are steady. With a tier 1 shissar bite ( 75dd Plus stun/knockback ) thats 1500+ dd out of one poison.

I make 20 or 30 poisons without a fail from the tier 1's quite often and with getting my vials back now, I'd put my avg price per poison about 10-15p.

15p for 1500+ dd and the potential to interrupt the CH's and Ice Comets pointed at me.. I'd say thats very worth it. I can't wait to try out the 125dd vs undead That will be about 2500dd for 15p (in the right zone of course)

With the fails on teir 2's (about 25-35% fail rate) its a little more expensive so I dont use them as often but I do keep them on hand. The tier 1's coat my blade almost constantly as long as theres something to stab.

If you don't want to do all the hard work to get to this point, stick to the old poisons. BUT.. it is so nice to walk out of PoK with one 10slot bag containing 100 doses of several kinds of poison.


Marauder Thurgle Tinglespine, Quellious
*Happy Spinetinglin' & May all yer spawn be Kwik!*

[Squink McPoke]

Haha, what exp? Cleared about 2/3 of fear last night with a single group and got 2% exp. TWO. PERCENT. And this was at level 61 .. a friend in the group was level 62 and 90% of what we killed was light blue to him.

[Barrister]

heh. he might mean the turn in. i got like 8% aa exp for the ahlspies turn in. Cloauk N'Dger
Veteran Assassin of The Haven

[EZ_Rune the Borrower]

You're not going to get any experience doing the Burning Rapier quest over again. I'll bet you PP to CP on that. The BR quest is fun but you can expect to spend 30-50 hours in Black Burrow while you're at it.

This just in, I finally got may faction up to ally with the Circle of Unseen Hands. I went and talked to Renux, got the box, filled it and pressed the combine button. So far so good.

I gave the box to Renux and she tells me that I need to work on my faction???????

SHE gave me the box and asked me to fill it. SHE said to hurry. SHE's the one afraid of being sent to Steamfont on some suicide mission. Where is MY GMAS?

/petition..... 3 hours and that rarest of all spawns (A GM) has yet to show. Runehammer Trollsbane
Assassin of Cazik-Thule

The Oldest Rogue on Cazik-Thule

"I yam what I yam."
Popeye

[Northerner]

Take out the Eyerazzia and SA and I'd be ok with it. I am already 15k poorer for trying to get a GM vial but I can live with that (and still have none). I can live with farming for componants (I am used to it in fact and it beats my usual time in Unrest) and I can live with most things (although making CS and resins all the time is a pure pain). I can even live with vials through the alternate expensive route and I can stand the general expenses that we incur, completely unreimbursed by groups I might add.

I cannot bear the idea of heading back to PoH and PoF as a guest on a raid just to pick up weapons I already destroyed or have seen rot countless times. I am also not so sure I *want* to turn in my BR. That has had a bankspot for ages now.

I am back to exping for now and will see how the whole thing shakes out. I can spend points to reduce the evade timer as it is and the -aggro poisons are the best of breed anyways. I can also achieve more damage through AAs than through these quests/poisons. As much as I would like to persue it (I GMed poison a long, long time ago) I think I cannot sensibly do so for now. Celeris Tujimson
Assassin of The Nameless

"They sicken of the calm that know the storm." - Dorothy Parker

[EZ_Chemistrius]

I got 5% of 62 from doing the burning rapier quest over.

Can I have my money?

If you really want to see, do just the gem box section of it, should take you about 15 minutes and 500 plat. You will see the exp bar move. <u>Chemistrius Ul'Veldrin </u>
62nd Season Dark Elf Assassin
Crusaders of PliloIt will be a hard life.
One without remorse, without reward, without regret.
A path will be placed before you, the choice is yours alone.
Do what you think you cannot do.
It will be a hard life, but you will find out who you are.

[Underdawg Darogue]

You dont keep up with the information very well do you. You dont need any of the following

clay,water,spell comp,pelt,firing sheet, pottery combine, sketch.

Because vials are returned on failure and on making a 5 or 10 charge poison. There is NO REASON to make the vials from scratch. Combine a sealed vial with a peridot to make the advanced vial and make about 15 of them you will never need more.

Also on the same note the following items are all available on merchants within a stones throw of eachother

wax flower,amber,gnome spirit,etheral susp,celest solvent,research comp

[DarthEnderX]

Hey guess what. We complained for years to have poisons changed to work the way the new advanced poisons work.

My point is:

Quit yer bitchin!

[EZ_Prodigious]

we didn't ask for them to become so expensive and a PITA to farm

it's like if shamans got a new fast 4k dot, but it costed 2000 mana to cast...nothing to bitch about, huh? Marauder Prodigious Prodigy
Fennin Ro

[EZ_noctur]

I am happy with the way the poisons are, they have been very useful. Especially the cripple poison. I kinda wish the best debuffs weren't no drop though. Anyway all they need to do is fix a couple of the stacking issues and it'll be fine.
Noctur Docter
Level 61 Assassin
Ashen Vendetta
Innoruuk
"Nothing makes me smile more than a turned back ..."

[ShadowCross]

Most of the info in the first post it completely wrong. Veteran ShadowCross Bladesong
- Everquest: Veteran Shadowcross Bladesong, Teir'dal Assassin (62), Antonious Bayle

- Assistant Messageboard Administrator: The Safehouse - An RPG Rogue Community
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[EZ_jayrod junteau]

and if you do the optional (at least as far as we know now) quest for the seal, you don't even have to re-make vials if you make 5 and 10 shot poisons.


Because vials are returned on failure and on making a 5 or 10 charge poison. There is NO REASON to make the vials from scratch. Combine a sealed vial with a peridot to make the advanced vial and make about 15 of them you will never need more.


never mind just read the news Edited by: jayrod junteau at: 11/5/02 11:34:20 am

[EZ_KayleighDrake]

The phrasing you quoted is misleading.

If you try to make a poison, and you fail, you get the vial back.

If you make a 5 or 10 charge poison bottle, you get the 5 or 10 vials back that you used in making the individual poisons.

Therefore if you have 10 vials, you'll just keep recycling those 10 vials, and you never need more. At that point it becomes a heck of a lot more practical to pay 16pp per vial since for 400pp you're set for life.

A great improvement to the system I thought.


Osprey
Assassin
Triad Continuum

[EZ_Sophia MorAdu]

I have about 40 or so advanced poison vials in the bank, and I'll doubt I'll ever need more then that. Edited by: Sophia MorAdu at: 11/5/02 2:40:27 pm

[Yalum]

Advanced vials are good money. I had 6 stacks when the change went in, made a couple k tossing the extras on my bazaar mule.

[EZ_twinbabas]

And if you don't want to make the advanced vials, I have stacks of them for sale in the bazaar for reasonable pricing.

In short, don't complain so quickly, when you haven't looked at all that's out there.

[EZ_Viscer Spineshank]

I also like the new system. It was a pita at the start, but once I got use to it and knew what I needed its fine. I have the coffin bottle, so I get my 10 dose advanced vials back. I didn't make them at the start....just considered it up front costs (peridot + sealed vial).

My guild is kind enough to save any planar essence, dust of decay, etc for me and I pass the poisons around to the other rogues.

Just some tips. I made roughly 30 teir II poisons last night and failed maybe twice. I have one rank in poison mastery, 250 skill and the Seal. I would highly recommend having at least one rank in poison mastery.
If you make single poisons and pass them around, it can get costly because of the 11pp or so cost of the vial.

There is a bit of status put on your rogue when they have the ability to do all this. Other rogues know the crap you went through to get to where you are. I'm loving the new system so far, especially after the work is done.
Casus Belli-An Occasion for War
Ayonae Ro
"You can run but you'll just die tired"--KAAOS

[EZ_holyzwifta]

Making posions and its quest is not a big hassel, i think its fairly easy to be honest. But bringing in that %#¤%#¤% eyerazzor BR and shrukian from old GREEN planes that drops RANDOM (yes i know BR i a quest but the rest) is abselutly the most stupid i sean from VI in a long long time. Dident thay say thay removed the timezinks?

but over all i love the new posion system (would be nice withe a stronger DD one tho but cant get all)

keep up the good work rogue somthing
Member of Darkwind

[EZ_Weben]

/agree Northerner

though, i'm one of those rogues who never really had the money or extra time to max out my poisons (only @ like 125 right now) before PoP came out. i'm now at the point where i'd *like* to take all this time, and max poisons out...get my GMAV....the seal, the sketch...etc. but i just can't justify the huge amount of time that it would take to jump through all those hoops just to have only a little extra functionality / dps. i'm just about 63 now, and have 55 aa points, and am pretty sure i'm just going to keep on truckin to 65, and then full out with aa...as to me, AA or lvls >>> poisons any day of the week. yes, i am master of the obvious. as it will take me a while to bag all the aa that i feel i need....i don't think i'll ever bother with making poisons.

anyway, what's my point here? to me, the time needed to complete all of this is just not worth it to me i guess. i have the time, and the money...but i won't be pursuing any of it. i'm not being lazy...don't get me wrong here. i play about 80hrs a week. i just don't want to jump through retarded hoops.

here's to hoping that you guys that are going to make these advanced brews aren't going to charge me 5k for a 10-dose of poison_02. Edited by: Weben at: 11/6/02 9:14:47 am

[EZ_noctur]

No,just 1k :)
Noctur Docter
Level 63 Assassin
Ashen Vendetta
Innoruuk
"Nothing makes me smile more than a turned back ..."

[Corinari]

I am using the new poisons and loving all the quests and side quests. In my mind it makes it that much more enjoyable and a real accomplishment once I finally get that nice gree glowing Grandmaster Assaissin's Seal.

Sure I get a DPS boost but it is not something I count on to win just a bonus when I want that little something extra.

Yes you do have to either still have or find some weapons from the first release of EQ. (I now have a reason besides just for the heck of it to do the Burning Rapier quest).

I think they have done a great job of tying some Rogue skills, Rogue weapons, Rogue quests and our Class Skill of Poisoning all together. Even though I have failed twice on my GMAV.