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View Full Version : Anti-smoking crusaders have really gone over the edge now


Darkefang
03-10-04, 06:25 AM
Quote:Smoking 'bad as swearing' in film

Movies which feature actors smoking should be given adult ratings, according to a US study.

A report issued by the University of California suggested smoking should be treated in the same way as swearing.

Professor Stanton Glantz called on films such as Seabiscuit and Chicago to be given adult ratings because they include smoking.

He wants film-makers and studios to consider the influence that featuring smoking in films can have on children.

The report was sponsored by the charitable foundation The Richard and Rhoda Goldman Fund and the National Cancer Institute.

'Offensive'

A study of 775 US movies from the past five years found nearly 80% of films rated PG-13 featured smoking, while 50% of films deemed suitable for younger audiences also included tobacco use.

Among those singled out were 102 Dalmatians, Secondhand Lions and What a Girl Wants, all aimed a young audiences.

"No one is saying there should never be any smoking in the movies," said Professor Glantz.

"What we're simply asking for is that smoking be treated by Hollywood as seriously as it treats offensive language."

Professor Glantz would like to see more PG-13 films that feature smoking, like Chicago, given an R-rating.

Since R-rated films typically earn less money because they are not open to cinema-loving teenagers, Professor Glantz hopes this tactic might discourage "unnecessary" smoking scenes.

Creative freedom

But the plan to rate films for smoking would not include historical figures who were known to smoke.

"For example, if they wanted to make a movie about Winston Churchill, they could show him with a cigar without triggering an R-rating, but the number of movies where that actually happens is very small," said Professor Glantz.

A spokesman for Sony said: "We are aware of the health hazards posed by smoking and while we do not advocate our film-makers to use smoking in our films, we cannot endorse guidelines that promote censorship or restrict creative freedom,"

The Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA), which represents the studios but is also responsible for rating movies, denied its members positively promoted cigarettes.

"We are not in the business of advertising," said Vans Stevenson, senior vice president of the MPAA.

"We are in the enterprise of creative storytelling. All elements in motion picture storytelling are determined by the creative artists involved."

BBC link to the story

I'm not a smoker, but after reading something like this, I'm about ready to donate money to the Tobacco companies. The anti-smoking propaganda is ridiculous and getting worse. I don't see how rating movies R for smoking content is anything but censorship. Movie ratings in general are bad enough when they are used to warn about violence and nudity in movies, but this has crossed a line into sillyness now. This is not to mention that it could dilute the usefulness of movie ratings for parents in choosing a movie appropriate for their kids.

I haven't seen the other kids movies they mention, but in 101 Dalmations, its Cruella DeVille that is smoking. I don't think they are exactly meaning for her to be a role model for the kids to emulate.

They also talk about Chicago. I hate to break it to them, but people in general smoked like chimneys in the 1920s, and people like the characters in the movie would have definitely smoked.

I also really enjoy the part where they say that they'll allow movies that feature historical figures famous for their smoking. I can just see the debates now about who smoked and who didn't smoke.

Anyone that has ever hung around actors or theatre people knows that, in general, they smoke more than the average person. I guess its part of the theatre culture. It is only natural that actors will often have their characters smoke. These crusaders are also ignoring the fact that characters in movies are often, high-strung people with extremely stressful lives, and those types of people are more likely to smoke.

An argument they use is that tobacco companies are using movies as a method of advertising. When was the last time you saw a brand name in a movie? I've rarely ever seen a brand name on a pack of cigarettes in a movie. However, I have seen blatant logos for Coca Cola, McDonalds, Nike and Sizzler in many movies. If Big Tobacco really is trying to advertise in movies, they are really doing a poor job of it.

Meddik
03-10-04, 06:48 AM
No, they went over the edge a long while back.

Stalk
03-10-04, 07:24 AM
If you smoke, your little brother will die in a car crash!!! Edited by: Stalkyr Weaksoul at: 3/10/04 7:25 am

EZ_Ten Evenings
03-10-04, 07:30 AM
Or youll hit a little girl on a bike cause you sped away from the burger stand's drive through cause you order some cheddar burgers and forgot you spent all your money on a pack of Marlboros!

This is rediculous. Anti-smoking groups are kinda crazy, in my experience.

EZ_Fablar
03-10-04, 08:02 AM
I;'ve just started smoking again after over 2 years of non-smoking

How dare they equate smoking with swearing! Stupid @#%$.

EZ_Andorion
03-10-04, 08:08 AM
Ten, you do know that was an anti-pot commercial right? =)

Yeah, this is a little ridiculous. When are all the old people in power going to die and be replaced by the new generation?

~Berj

EZ_Gyorg
03-10-04, 08:30 AM
I understand how this can be restrictive. On the other hand, I really don't think that if I had kids I'd want them going to movies where all the good guys smoked in their influential years.

EZ_Ten Evenings
03-10-04, 08:41 AM
Heh, yeah. I just wanted to change it around a little bit.

Speaking of the anti-pot commericals, is it me, or is every situation they present in those a situation where you wouldnt want to be drunk, either? In my mind, all that says is that pot should be as legal and as regulated as alcohol.

Cantatus
03-10-04, 09:50 AM
I'm against smoking and strongly dislike the tobacco industry, but this is just going to the extreme and yet another attempt for some group to push their beliefs on other people's children.

To begin with, smoking is very rarely in movies anymore unless it is historical. In children's movies, it is often the villian that is doing the smoking. In fact, I can't think of any movies I've seen recently that weren't factual where the good guy smoked.

Secondly, any kid sees someone smoking before their five whether it's a family member or just some random person in a restaurant.
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Deltar Battlewall
03-10-04, 09:51 AM
Quote:I don't see how rating movies R for smoking content is anything but censorship.
The MPAA is in the business of censorship. It's what they do.
Quote:They also talk about Chicago. I hate to break it to them, but people in general smoked like chimneys in the 1920s,
People in the 1920s also spontaneously broke into song with choreographed dance numbers every so often too.
Quote:and people like the characters in the movie would have definitely smoked.
They also could have just as easily not smoked, and it wouldn't have changed anything.
Quote:Anyone that has ever hung around actors or theatre people knows that, in general, they smoke more than the average person. I guess its part of the theatre culture.
This statement proves you know nothing of theatre culture.
Quote:It is only natural that actors will often have their characters smoke.
Also incorrect. Just becuase an actor smokes doesn't necessarily mean the character they play must smoke as well.
Quote:These crusaders are also ignoring the fact that characters in movies are often, high-strung people with extremely stressful lives, and those types of people are more likely to smoke.
And the survey study that concluded this "fact" can be found where?
Quote:An argument they use is that tobacco companies are using movies as a method of advertising. When was the last time you saw a brand name in a movie? I've rarely ever seen a brand name on a pack of cigarettes in a movie. However, I have seen blatant logos for Coca Cola, McDonalds, Nike and Sizzler in many movies. If Big Tobacco really is trying to advertise in movies, they are really doing a poor job of it.
Forgive me if I'm wrong but I don't see this mentioned anywhere in that article. However, now that you mention it one cigarette brand name movie does spring immediately to mind: Harley Davidson and the Marlboro Man.

As for the idea of giving movies that feature smoking higher restriction, I too think it's a silly idea, but only in its current form. I would not be against some kind of warning going out to parents (perhaps smoking can be included in the description of PG-13), but altering the actual letter is extreme. Perhaps we should just go back and retroactively give R ratings to any classic movies made in the 30's, 40's, and 50's in which characters smoked? "Sorry son, you can't watch Casablanca. Rick Blaine is a smoker."

Dorla
03-10-04, 10:00 AM
Quote:102 Dalmatians

Curse that Cruella De Vil for glamorizing cigarette holders!!!

EZ_Pharius Ravenslock
03-10-04, 10:01 AM
just to comment Deltar, I was in acting in high school, belonged to an off-campus actors club in college, and know many people involved in on-campus acting. And it has been my experience that yes, smoking is somewhat of a social norm among stage actors.

and it's not because my campus has a high smoker/no-smoker ratio (I go to A&M where you may get dirty looks for smoking in public unless you are at a bar), so that can't account for it.

Makin' things hot since 1983!Edited by: Pharius Ravenslock at: 3/10/04 11:30 am

Deltar Battlewall
03-10-04, 10:12 AM
Quote:just to comment Deltar, I was in acting in high school, belonged to an student actors club in high school, and still know many people involved in campus acting. And it has been my experience that yes, smoking is somewhat of a social norm among stage actors.

and it's not because my campus has a high smoker/no-smoker ratio (I go to A&M where you may get dirty looks for smoking in public unless you are at a bar), so that can't account for it.
Experiences vary, I guess. I was very active in my college's theater department for about 2 years. Some of the people I knew from there smoked, most didn't (including me).

I would be willing to bet that, on average, smoking is no more prevalent in theater groups then it is in any other clique.

Darkefang
03-10-04, 10:47 AM
Quote:Forgive me if I'm wrong but I don't see this mentioned anywhere in that article. However, now that you mention it one cigarette brand name movie does spring immediately to mind: Harley Davidson and the Marlboro Man.

My mistake. That was mentioned on the site of the grouptrying to get them to change movie ratings. I forgot where I read that.
Quote:Remember, Big Tobacco is huge. It spends as much on advertising and promotion alone as Hollywood grosses at the box office annually. When will Hollywood insiders make their own calculated decision to abandon Big Tobacco? When we make it harder, riskier, and costlier not to. That takes strategy, working together. Protecting our kids — saving 100,000 lives a year — is worth it.
Yeah, Harley Davidson and the Marlboro Man is the only movie I could think of also, but I'm sure you can probably see the brand name in a few other movies also.

Quote:This statement proves you know nothing of theatre culture.
I volunteered in five different theatres in three different places during high school and college. The only people I ever ran into that didn't smoke besides myself were a couple of the women with the best voices in the operettas that thought smoking would hurt their voices. At one theatre, the technical director gave me "sit-down-and-do-nothing" breaks since I was the only one who didn't take smoke breaks every 30 minutes. Maybe I just happened to work at a few very unusual theatres, but I doubt it.

Quote:Also incorrect. Just becuase an actor smokes doesn't necessarily mean the character they play must smoke as well.
Their characters don't have to smoke, but many choose to make them smokers, if the director lets them. A lot of less skilled actors do not know what to do with their hands during scenes and use a cigarette as a crutch. Otherwise, they can end up making a lot of awkward or out-of-character gestures with their hands.

Now, actors in high school and college plays are not going to be particularly talented overall, but the ones that do go on and become professionals are often going to continue using the same methods they used when they were learning how to act.

Quote:And the survey study that concluded this "fact" can be found where?
I'm sure someone on this board who has studied a lot of psychology can give a good profile of the reasons people smoke, and some of those character traits will sound an awful lot like the traits of characters in many movies. Watching mild-mannered people contemplate well-reasoned and rational responses to a situation isn't what people pay $8-$10 for a ticket for.

It boils down to this: Actors are not going out of their way to help Big Tobacco make more money. They are doing what they think they need to do to portray their character. This proposals is yet another step toward legislating creativity that hurts the quality of movies more than they've already been hurt.

EZ_Pharius Ravenslock
03-10-04, 11:33 AM
I agree...
I mean really...who can imagine Spike Speigal not smoking a bent cigarrette??!

Makin' things hot since 1983!

Yalum
03-10-04, 12:48 PM
I thought drug use already kicked a movie up into an R rating.

EZ_Yrion
03-11-04, 03:35 AM
I am a smoker, and think many rules, laws and regulations by the ani-smokers lobby are insane. However I agree that movies portaying drug use (including alcohol and cigarettes) could use an advise to be watched by people 16 years of age or older. why 16? If you are allowed to drive you should be allowed to watch whatever you want.


oh and Quote:We are not in the business of advertising

Tandom
03-11-04, 06:39 PM
Lord of the Rings had dwarves and men smoking pipes... I recall a scene where Gimli meets up with Merry and Pippin and says "You're eating.. and smoking!!!!"

wonder if they'd give that a R rateing

"Rated PG-13 for epic battle sequences and some scary images"

"Rated R for Smoking"

EZ_Norpin
03-11-04, 09:32 PM
I could see bumping a G up to a PG for smoking, but R? I hate smoking as much as anyone, but come on, that's just silly.

It's already this bad with cartoons. Kids can see a criminal rob a bank, take a hostage, shoot at the cops, and blow up a patrol car, but heaven forbid he smoke, lest he influence our children. Edited by: Norpin at: 3/11/04 9:38 pm

Jem
03-11-04, 10:05 PM
Second hand smoke. Permeating TV screens and infiltrating a living room near you... Wraine aka "The Spine Tickler!"
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EZ_Clailya
03-12-04, 01:57 AM
OMG I want to smoke just because I saw cruella devil do it in that dalmations movie! - says the 4 year old! Clailya Clearmind
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Darkefang
03-12-04, 06:09 AM
I guess whenever we see teenagers out in the alleys behind schools all over the country, smoking cigarettes on those long Cruella Deville/FDR/Penguin filters, we can blame movies influence.