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2 Expansions to fix poison

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  • Registered Member
    • Jun 2004
    brassmonkeyc738

    #16
    Re: 2 Expansions to fix poison

    Soketh said:
    Yeah it will, make it a 300 point DD proc 30 min buff and tell me if it was vendor bought you wouldn't want it. Its better than every DD aug. Put that with a 30% single shot unresistable slow thats stackable and a 50% snare. That would be a decent band aid while they worked on completely redoing the system.

    Nodding blue lillys drop like candy in seb, there is no reason that our high end poison reagents shouldn't do the same and require 1 other vendor item to finish out the recipe (not including reusable items like the master sketch).
    You missed my point Soketh. What you're suggesting would require more than the OP was asking for. I was giving reasons why what he asked for wouldn't be enough. I'm all for changing the system and a 300 dd proc might come in handy, but why stop there? Why not a 500 dd proc? A 750 dd proc? And the ability to use 3 or 4 poisons on the same mob would come in very handy as well. But these are big changes that won't come with a bandaid. If they try to do that with a bandaid, we'll have a bigger mess than we have with our trap system. Patience is a virtue!!
    Raggs

    Comment

    • Registered Member
      • Oct 2005
      Soketh

      #17
      Re: 2 Expansions to fix poison

      Thats not what i meant.....

      300 is only slightly more than what is available in a permenant version and in addition it cost us money everytime. 500 or 700 is not reasonable but i concede to perhaps missing your point.
      The official thread leper

      Comment

      • Banished
        • May 2006
        reamas

        #18
        Re: 2 Expansions to fix poison

        Kverin said:
        reamas,


        If Sony puts forth the short-term time and effort to fix the resist rates and farming issues of poison making, they will either spend less time and effort in the long term fixes that our tradeskill so desperately needs or even delay a total revamp indefinitely.

        Again, this statement is made with 5+ years of history (or however long it's been since Sony purchased EQ from Verant). ,
        If this true I agree,otherwise a band aid would be nice. Even just putting the ingredients (or new ingredients) in POK would be enough for me now until fixed.

        Comment

        • Registered Member
          • Jan 2005
          Falconii

          #19
          Re: 2 Expansions to fix poison

          Kwiknife said:
          I was duoing with a cleric who was much stronger than I.

          Pulled a fallen spirit, he proc'd 32,000.

          **32,000**
          That's a cleric AA that is a modest undead DOT with a 2% chance of doing the 32k proc. While it looks cool, it's little more than a parlor trick in reality.
          -----------------------------------------------------------
          Falconii <Undying>
          80 Rogue on Xegony

          Magelo

          Comment

          • Veteran
            • Sep 2004
            Blaydh

            #20
            Re: 2 Expansions to fix poison

            Falconii said:
            That's a cleric AA that is a modest undead DOT with a 2% chance of doing the 32k proc. While it looks cool, it's little more than a parlor trick in reality.
            I believe his point was that the mob took 32k and was still at 18%. Hence, a ~300 DD poison is a drop in the bucket, and not worth the time to bother farming and making.

            Correct me if I am wrong.
            Blaydh
            Valorguard
            The Nameless
            Retired

            Comment

            • Registered Member
              • Oct 2005
              Soketh

              #21
              Re: 2 Expansions to fix poison

              A 300 DD proc is totally worth it, if it procs all the time like augs. Assuming that you have the appropriate AAs. It would be a nice DPS addition for 30 min for lower end rogues.
              The official thread leper

              Comment

              • Veteran
                • Sep 2004
                Blaydh

                #22
                Re: 2 Expansions to fix poison

                Hell, I'd take 300DD any day.
                Blaydh
                Valorguard
                The Nameless
                Retired

                Comment

                • Registered Member
                  • May 2004
                  KatiFV

                  #23
                  Re: 2 Expansions to fix poison

                  Depends on what you see as a proper return on the time involved to make the poison. If you find the 300DD proc that's highly resisted to be worth the hours spent farming super rare components, then the poison is worth it.

                  If you don't find the time vs. reward worth it, then the poison skill is largely wasted. I personally find it a waste, as my play time is mostly limited to raids and I can't solo the drops needed for the top end poisons.

                  Anyway, whether a poison is "worth it or not" is an individual decision.

                  What needs to happen, is for poisons to become 'more' worth it for the majority of people.
                  Katiyonia Istalindar
                  Firiona Vie
                  Rogue class leader
                  of the Planar Campaign

                  Comment

                  • Registered Member
                    • Jun 2004
                    brassmonkeyc738

                    #24
                    Re: 2 Expansions to fix poison

                    Soketh said:
                    A 300 DD proc is totally worth it, if it procs all the time like augs. Assuming that you have the appropriate AAs. It would be a nice DPS addition for 30 min for lower end rogues.
                    That statement contradicted itself, unless by lower end rogues you mean non-raiding rogues. As far as I know, most rogues with "the appropriate AAs" cannot be lower end because those AA's just aren't available at lower levels.

                    Again, even if you're talking non-raiding rogues that 300 DD proc isn't going to make that much of a difference unless they really change the entire system. On a typical fight where I have a pop poison running, it might proc 5 times in a 45 second to a minute fight (if I'm lucky, there are fights where it never procs at all). Thats a ~30 dps increase (possibly more with crits, but those are few and far between for me). For a rogue to have spent all those AA's to be the best he can be along with spending the time to become a master poisoncrafter, he'd probably be disappointed if thats the intended result of this bandaid. I know I would be.

                    Maybe they can change the proc frequency for poisons so its more on the line with some of the weapon procs. I know my Chailak fang proc hits 10 to 15 times over a minute fight sometimes, but my life sap II proc hits about as often as the poison procs. Again, this type of change can't be made with a bandaid. You touched on using more than one poison at a time. I'd love to see that. Same story... can't make that change with a bandaid.

                    Out of curiosity, I'm unclear exactly how multiple weapon procs work. If I have 1 proc on my piercer plus a poison proc buff, is it possible for the poison proc to hit on the same swing as a weapon proc? If not, then that might be another thing to consider when it comes time to revamp this. It seems we're losing out on some potential DPS with multiple procs, but thats more than I care to think about.
                    Raggs

                    Comment

                    • Hand of the Ring
                      • Aug 2002
                      Jazya

                      #25
                      Re: 2 Expansions to fix poison

                      brassmonkeyc738 said:
                      Out of curiosity, I'm unclear exactly how multiple weapon procs work. If I have 1 proc on my piercer plus a poison proc buff, is it possible for the poison proc to hit on the same swing as a weapon proc? If not, then that might be another thing to consider when it comes time to revamp this. It seems we're losing out on some potential DPS with multiple procs, but thats more than I care to think about.
                      You can only proc once per combat round. Aka you can't proc once from an attack and again on the double attack. Hands are treated independently so you could get two procs right when you hit attack - one from each hand.

                      If two procs trigger, the effect with the higher procrate will take precedence. Rogues are probably best off as we have dual wield and favor +dmg augs over procs. Classes like... knights with a slow 2h weapon (higher proc rate per swing) might be more sensitive to this.

                      I believe if all proc rates are equal, and multiple fire, then the weapon's innate proc will fire first, then an aug'ed proc, then a spell proc.

                      Also, PC's can proc off of misses but not ripostes, NPCs can proc off of ripostes but not misses. A 'rune' hit is considered a 'miss'
                      Last edited by Jazya; 08-24-06, 01:53 PM.

                      Comment

                      • Registered Member
                        • May 2005
                        Polt11

                        #26
                        Re: 2 Expansions to fix poison

                        Add an additional aug slot to weapons, or to some weapons. Have it be of type where the aug is a rogue only (makes the item rogue only, the aug itself possibly could be traded) and have the aug be a poison-based aug. They could then, fairly easily, implement poisons within the game, in sellable, questable, and droppable forms. This would give all the power and customability currently existing in the aug system.

                        Polt
                        Brell/CT

                        Comment

                        • Registered Member
                          • Jun 2004
                          brassmonkeyc738

                          #27
                          Re: 2 Expansions to fix poison

                          I hope Jazya's explanation on proc effects makes a few believers of those that think SOE can fix poisons with a simple bandaid. There are so many things tied into poisons besides making them and resists. Besides revamping the poison system, these desired improvements may impact how rogues chose weapons and augments.

                          Thanks Jaz... makes it a little clearer (but I do have a headache now).
                          Raggs

                          Comment

                          • Registered Member
                            • Oct 2005
                            Soketh

                            #28
                            Re: 2 Expansions to fix poison

                            You would snub 30 extra dps? Thats just silly....

                            What i meant by lower end rogues is grouping or lower tier raiding rogues.

                            For example if they implemented vendor bought DD proc poisons while they overhaul the whole system (along with the others i mentioned to add minor utility) they would be level restricted and say the 300 DD would only be usable by level 75s. But if you were a lower leveled rogue there would be other lower damage poisons you could use.

                            I see no problems with this as a bandaid. Until they actually fix the whole mess.
                            The official thread leper

                            Comment

                            • Registered Member
                              • Jun 2004
                              brassmonkeyc738

                              #29
                              Re: 2 Expansions to fix poison

                              Its a bandaid. If I had a choice whether to take the bandaid or wait for a revamp, I'd wait for the revamp. What you're suggesting is that its just a simple fix for them to add vendor sold DD proc poisons that don't already exist in game with different mechanics than any current poison. I'm suggesting that its not a simple fix and if they tried that then those of us who do still dabble in poisons would be worse off than we are right now. If you really want my answer to that question, then yes I would snub this hypothetical ~30 dps increase. I apologize if you think thats silly.

                              And my hypothetical ~30 dps increase is flawed since this 300 DD proc is an upgrade for poison procs that are currently available... that number should probably be halved.
                              Raggs

                              Comment

                              • Banished
                                • May 2006
                                reamas

                                #30
                                Re: 2 Expansions to fix poison

                                brassmonkeyc738 said:
                                And my hypothetical ~30 dps increase is flawed since this 300 DD proc is an upgrade for poison procs that are currently available... that number should probably be halved.
                                I would take it if,wouldnt prevent them from doing an actual revamp. If putting in a few ingredients in POK for whatever reason slows down the overhaul it aint worth it, which is what this newbie was informed.

                                Also the number should only be halved for people who currently use the poison. Most rogues i suspect do not.
                                A 30 or 60 dps increase would not be gamechanging but would be fun to goof around with poisons. Especially if they have a cool graphic.

                                Does this site support polls, I am curious what % of rogues currently use poison in any form.
                                Last edited by reamas; 08-24-06, 03:44 PM.

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