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2 Expansions to fix poison

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  • Veteran
    • Jul 2005
    Cleptomaniac

    #31
    Re: 2 Expansions to fix poison

    Maybe I'm wrong, but I completely believe that if we were to get a band aid right now, we would not see a re-vamp for 2-3 years. I think it would push us to the back of the line for the TS revamps (which, from my understanding all are getting one, just gonna be a while).

    Thinking more about it though, I think I would like to see vendors for the items needed for most of our poisons now, or at least the one shot ones (assuming they keep the 2 types). Since they can't be stacked (barring changes to that) it's not like they will make us solo Gods using only ready bought items.

    Now for the meat of the re-vamp though, make so worth while poisons. Something farmed, not impossible to get but hard enough to make ya think twice about it. Make it 1 shot and a Lore item, but in return almost impossible to resist and hits like a freight train. Then add in some proc ones that again are harder to get, but do some serious damage.

    Also 2 things I really want:

    1. The application of a poison (buff types) WILL NOT BREAK FREAKING HIDE!!!! I don't care if it costs AA's to do, I'm a rogue and yer telling me Sont thinks I'm not sneaky enough to dab a little poison on my blade before driving it in my enemies backs without it breaking my stealth????

    2. Let me stack my poisons. 1 shots I could go with the idea of only 1 at a time, but if it's a buff slot why not let me add 2-3 or more? Sure it might reduce the chances of some firing (the whole proc thing Jazya went into), but it would improve my chance of A proc every round.

    *edit* And yes Reamas, I do use poisons now. Not all the time, but I have a handfull of different ones I use quite a bit.

    Comment

    • Banished
      • May 2006
      reamas

      #32
      Re: 2 Expansions to fix poison

      I didnt get much response but I suggested regarding the application having a poison belt, similiar to a potion belt.
      You right click on a slot (slow-spine break,DD,DoT,snare) and it does a quicksplach of poison onto your blade. Later want a snare, right click that poison. Have it work like a proc or spell, doesnt matter to me.

      Comment

      • Veteran
        • Sep 2004
        Blaydh

        #33
        Re: 2 Expansions to fix poison

        reamas said:
        I didnt get much response but I suggested regarding the application having a poison belt, similiar to a potion belt.
        You right click on a slot (slow-spine break,DD,DoT,snare) and it does a quicksplach of poison onto your blade. Later want a snare, right click that poison. Have it work like a proc or spell, doesnt matter to me.
        Things that would need to be addressed before that would work:

        Would the "splashes" be single shots or proc/buffs?
        If proc/buff, and you want to use another, will it overwrite the old one, or replace it, or stack?
        If it stacks, there is a lower chance of a proc due to multiple buffs and limited by rounds of combat.
        If it replaces, they need to all be in the same spell line in order to overwrite, meaning they all need to be recoded.
        If they are single shot, will they be 10-dose-able, single charge (bag space issue) or will an "endless poison" option be made available?

        It's a nice idea, requiring a large amount of work for implementation. I can see it being made available with the revamp, but not as a band-aid.

        I'm not real excited to see yet another pop up window on my UI, but I would live with it.
        Blaydh
        Valorguard
        The Nameless
        Retired

        Comment

        • Registered Member
          • May 2005
          Polt11

          #34
          Re: 2 Expansions to fix poison

          Wow, I thought I had a good idea, but not even one comment...

          Comment

          • Registered Member
            • Dec 2002
            Kverin

            #35
            Re: 2 Expansions to fix poison

            Polt said:
            Add an additional aug slot to weapons, or to some weapons. Have it be of type where the aug is a rogue only (makes the item rogue only, the aug itself possibly could be traded) and have the aug be a poison-based aug. They could then, fairly easily, implement poisons within the game, in sellable, questable, and droppable forms. This would give all the power and customability currently existing in the aug system.
            First, although this would not be a quick fix, as the original poster was requesting, it might be something for the dev team to look at when revamping the poison system.

            Second, how would the aug be applied to the aug slot on the weapon? Currently, a birdbath is required to place an augmentation on a slot, weapon or otherwise. Only reason I say that is because it seems like it limits you to a certain poison aug, unless you were to de-aug and re-aug the weapon with a new poison.

            I guess it kinda limits how many poisons you can use during an evening ... unless, of course, if the aug can be applied without using a birdbath, is expended after so many uses (or time past), and must be reapplied on a regular basis. Honestly, I can see some merit in this idea, provided the implementation is honed. From your post, though, it was difficult for me to understand what you were saying.

            Finally, I would assume that this Rogue only poison weapon aug would NOT take the place of single shot or buff-based poisons but, rather, in addition to, and perhaps even have utility-based applications.

            Can you be a little more specific on how you see your idea implemented, Polt?
            Kverin D'Veldrin
            Shadow of the 75th Backstab
            Drinal (Formerly Tarew Marr)
            Veritable Quandary

            Comment

            • Banished
              • May 2006
              reamas

              #36
              Re: 2 Expansions to fix poison

              Polt11 said:
              Add an additional aug slot to weapons, or to some weapons. Have it be of type (99) where the aug is a rogue only (makes the item rogue only, the aug itself possibly could be traded) and have the aug be a poison-based aug. They could then, fairly easily, implement poisons within the game, in sellable, questable, and droppable forms. This would give all the power and customability currently existing in the aug system.

              Polt
              Brell/CT
              I dont understand?
              If its an aug slot how is it expenable? Do you mean create a brand new type of expendable aug ? That would be alot of work
              How do you change from a slow poison to a DoD one? do you need to reattach and distill an aug each time?
              Currently the Aug slots need the Augment Tank, you want to make it some augs do and some do not nedd that tank?
              I dont think it would be easy to have a Aug slot be class only. That is nowhere in-game so also total redesign needed.
              You have also completely removed the apply poison skill (actually that I like)

              You are trying to fit poisons in a pre-existing part of the game to make it easier for Devs. In reality, aug slots are so differant from poisons it would be way more complicated then making an entirely new system. You would also have to add a new slot to every weapon.

              Also you say "They could then, fairly easily, implement poisons within the game, in sellable, questable, and droppable forms." Does not address problems of poisons.
              Right now they can make quests and dropable poisons and buy poisons. So what exactly are you shooting for with this major overhaul? If you are gonna make the poisons better and easier to farm, we could do that w/o revamping system. I am not saying it is a bad idea to have it similiar to Augs but it is by no means an "easy" fix.
              What about 10 dose and 1 dose what happens to old poisons? we have to delete the old system or now have 3 types, is your idea more of a proc?
              What about the other combines in other tradeskills that use poisons?


              Poisons are much closer to potion & spell system. They are both limited duration. Potions are also expendable as are poisons. They are both craftable. Potions arent class only though, at least to my knowledge. Also only spells are castable on others, potions are generally self casted.
              Last edited by reamas; 08-25-06, 12:01 PM.

              Comment

              • Veteran
                • Jul 2004
                Solanar

                #37
                Re: 2 Expansions to fix poison

                Put an "armor" slot on a weapon to drag the aug into =P

                Comment

                • Veteran
                  • Jul 2005
                  Cleptomaniac

                  #38
                  Re: 2 Expansions to fix poison

                  The aug idea might could work, but don't see anything like that going through (at least not the way it's been described here). If it does I would think it would be a crafted proc aug, but little more. And would more than likely require a birdbath to change. If that's the case the only advantage over don augs might be the PR vs FR/CR/MR (I'm pretty sure the taps augs are on MR anyways).


                  Now if poison gets a revamp like alchemy, I'm pretty sure we can say good-bye to single dose and even multi dose poisons /waves goodbye to GMAS. I'm betting on single dose buff type proc poisons that can be stacked to 20 (The only good thing about that whole idea). I'd still love to see more single shot poisons and to make them more user friendly make the stack to 20.

                  Comment

                  • Registered Member
                    • May 2004
                    decaf

                    #39
                    Re: 2 Expansions to fix poison

                    i like other rogues would like to see a poison change and to keep it simple

                    1

                    Comment

                    • Registered Member
                      • May 2004
                      decaf

                      #40
                      Re: 2 Expansions to fix poison

                      i like other rogues would like to see a poison change and to keep it simple

                      1 i see no reason why poison items cant be on vendors not all but more than we have now


                      2 to avoid over powering lower lv rogues and at the same time not cut higher lv rogues short on effect i would ask for a lv bonus of some kind to boost the resist that a mob would need to resist the poison when checks are done and a dammage / effect bonus again directly tied to the lv of the rogue.


                      this would up the value of a good poison and if a lv 30 should use it he will get the lv 30 results if a lv 70 would use that same poison he would get the lv 70 results as in if its a direct dammage poison say base ( just to pick a number ) of 100 pts of dammage on a one time hit the lv 30 could only do that but the lv 70 would use the same poison and get base 100 + ((level >60) x 10) to give a dammage of 800 if it was not resisted at all and on the resist side if a mob would need a 230 pr to totaly resist that poison it just may resist it if used by a lv 30 rogue but if used by a lv 70 rogue it should not be resisted most times due to again a formula added to poison check per the class now not knowing the formula that is used i would guess something like

                      base 230 - ((level>60) x 2) or something of that nature this way if the mob has 230pr and gets hit by a lv 30 rogue he would totaly resist it but if hit by a lv 70 rogue it would drop his pr to well under 230 so the poison would land well some % of it at least. now i am no programer as well but i did take a class or two back in the day when basic was still in the class room. i do know that things can be represented in numbers unless things have changed greatly but if that can be added to the poison check lines that are being used in game now it should do the trick the only thing i would like to play with in game is the multiplier to see if it is reasonable but that would give a nice fix i think and let us use the poisons we have but they will be more effective on higher lv mobs. i think this can work pls respond i want to know what u guys think and why. pls explain and no rants thanks

                      Comment

                      • Banished
                        • May 2006
                        reamas

                        #41
                        Re: 2 Expansions to fix poison

                        The original post was intended to say it doesnt seem that hard to fix. The only thing that was pointed out to me was that the applying aspect of poisons is no good. You can not stop midbattle to put on a snare if snarer goes down. This is true and needs to be addressed

                        Apparently people, unlike me, want a complete overhaul. They feel a bandaid will postpone needed overhaul.


                        Otherwise I still think we just need better poisons, it is not that hard to make new items up. The level of snare/slow/Dot etc should be better. I mean they do this with every single spell every expansion where there is a level increase, why not us too. Do you think making something stackable by 100 is complicated. Every item in EQ probably has a criteria that must be filled in. Ie who can hold, wield it etc. Level reqs , Lore, droppable etc. One item is stackable change it from 1 to 100. It is also not that hard to add items to vendors. They just need to fix aplly so it can be done mid-melee. I mean all the OOW poisons are ok, just IMPOSSIBLE to farm
                        Last edited by reamas; 08-25-06, 02:02 PM.

                        Comment

                        • Veteran
                          • Jan 2005
                          Kruzar

                          #42
                          Re: 2 Expansions to fix poison

                          This thread just gets longer and longer..

                          Poisons will get fixed one of these days.. just live with what we have now.. Alll of these ideas for fixes have come up in half a dozen other threads that are on this board. Beating a Dead Horse ain't going to do anymore good and I have all faith in Dalnoth as our Rogue Correspondent that he is kicking the Devs in the butt to get us noticed..

                          For those that want quick fixes.. nothing happens in EQ quickly.. and if you are expecting something in the next month it is probably not going to happen. It has been stated before that there will probably not be another patch until TSS is released due to the huge problems that happened prior to the last expansion release. What that means to the general population.. nothing is going to be magically added to vendors, no bandaids, no help with your farming issues.. things are going to remain as they are..

                          I am going to side with 90+% of the Rogues here.. WE DO NOT WANT A QUICK FIX.. WE WANT SOME REAL WORK DONE TO POISONS AND TO OUR CLASS IN GENERAL!!!!! As stated before..there are major issues that need work on first.. Poisons is like number 875 in a list of a million more problems..

                          Bah.. Rant Off..
                          Kruzar
                          Kitty R()gue of 85 Seasons, Maelin Starpyre

                          Comment

                          • Registered Member
                            • Dec 2002
                            Kverin

                            #43
                            Re: 2 Expansions to fix poison

                            reamas said:
                            They feel a bandaid will postpone needed overhaul.
                            It's not necessarily that we FEEL it will postpone our needed revamp ... it's more like history has shown us that it WILL. I hate to say, "just trust us, we've been here a while and seen it happen", but "just trust us, we've been here a while and seen it happen".

                            reamas said:
                            I mean they do this with every single spell every expansion where there is a level increase, why not us too.
                            Most spells, yes. But there is considerably more time involved in creating, developing, testing, and releasing anything in Everquest. Again, history has shown this.

                            reamas said:
                            Do you think making something stackable by 100 is complicated. Every item in EQ probably has a criteria that must be filled in. Ie who can hold, wield it etc. Level reqs , Lore, droppable etc. One item is stackable change it from 1 to 100.
                            Just an FYI, we have already been told that it would be a coding nightmare for our single shot poisons to be made stackable. In fact, we were told that a complete poison revamp would be the only way to address this. My point is that it might not be as simple as changing an item flag, or making a "20" a "100" in the code. Unless you know how the code works, and how it was developed (which you admit you don't), try not to make assumptions of how easy it would be. I'm not saying it's NOT easy ... I'm saying it's impossible for us to know since we're not coding it.

                            reamas said:
                            It is also not that hard to add items to vendors.
                            I'm not sure how hard it is to do this, but you may be right in that it's an easy fix. But, as has been mentioned already, Sony has made it abundantly clear that they are not in favor of making droppable items available in unlimited supply on vendors. Would it be nice to have vendors stock current poison ingredients? Sure, but history again implies that it will not happen.

                            Kruzar said:
                            nothing happens in EQ quickly
                            Quoted for truth. You see, EQ dev teams have rolled out changes quickly in the past ... and there is a reason why they do more extensive testing now. Again, it's helpful to know the history of Everquest.

                            Kv
                            Kverin D'Veldrin
                            Shadow of the 75th Backstab
                            Drinal (Formerly Tarew Marr)
                            Veritable Quandary

                            Comment

                            • Registered Member
                              • Jan 2005
                              drehdpirate

                              #44
                              Re: 2 Expansions to fix poison

                              I have to agree with what appears to be the majority and hope for a total revamp of poisons.Tho i do tend to use poisons in admittedly specific times.I like them mostly due to the concept of rogues always having poisoned blades.

                              I do have one littke irritating pet peeve about poisons.
                              Why the fragging dog doodle do our poison compentnets sell so well to vendors? I mean i get a group in lets say ,Rifts,,during the exp grind a few poison compenents drop,,,Since they sell for 44 to 100plat each ,the group im in wants to either Roll for them as they drop ,or have a master looter (non rogue,guessing they think i would keep the poison items and not sell and split the plat) and split the plat up later .

                              Now lets face it ,if a spell research item dropped or a shammie alchemy item dropped ,most if not all groups wouldnt hesistate to give the items to the shammie or researcher...

                              If a total revamp does ever happen ,might Suggest Heavily that our poison components sell to vendor for 1 copper no matter what zone they drop from...

                              Edit: No i dont plan on accepting a group invite from the member of the particular group again,,i might be a rogue but i do have my standards =p

                              Comment

                              • Registered Member
                                • Jun 2004
                                facundo69

                                #45
                                Re: 2 Expansions to fix poison

                                Poison overhaul is two expansions away for one simple reason: it didn't make the priority list. I'll see if I can find the reference from the tradeskill dev.


                                Fac
                                Power, like a desolating pestilence,
                                Pollutes whate'er it touches.


                                (Percy Bysshe Shelley (1792-1822)


                                Facundo

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