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  • Registered Member
    • Jul 2004
    Middy

    Thief's Eyes

    So don't shoot me, but I did a quick search and I found some conflicting info on what Thief's Eyes has been parsed to add.

    I was going off (old) knowledge that it only added about 3-5% accuracy (which was "overwritten" by a multitude of other spells).

    I saw Song say it was a straight 15% increase.

    I saw some old parses that showed significantly less...

    Anyone parse it recently?
    Midnitte
    Triton
  • EQ Community
    Round Table Member
    • Jun 2006
    songsa

    #2
    Re: Thief's Eyes

    15% should be with AA Enhanced Thief's Eyes (5% base + 10% from AA) but i don't think it is working properly.
    Songsa
    Raging Fury
    Antonius Bayle

    Comment

    • EQ Community
      Round Table Member
      • May 2004
      brogett

      #3
      Re: Thief's Eyes

      I've probably parsed it more recently, but the only thing I can find right now is way back in 2008! See www.brogett.plus.com/rogue_offensive_dps.pdf

      Back then it was a 2.7% increase. The spell data claims "Increase Chance to Hit by 5% with All Skills" which actually parsed out at 4.8% fewer misses. So perhaps the maths is correct, just not in the obvious way we think.

      If the boost is now 15% in theory then it'd come out as only 5% actual dps gain. Something to parse.

      Edit: I can't follow my maths on the 2.7% increase infact. It's correct on dps terms, but I think I just got lucky. 5% fewer misses from a base rate of about 25% miss rate (back then) would work out as 1.7% more hits. I had 1.6% more hits (normalised by time), so I guess I just got lucky on larger hits by random chance: despite 6 and 8 hour parses the difference is so small it's in the noise.
      Last edited by brogett; 08-02-11, 01:44 AM.

      Comment

      • EQ Community
        Round Table Member
        • May 2004
        brogett

        #4
        Re: Thief's Eyes

        So some recent parses with full AA. Long-duration raid buffs (the usual bits) without TE vs with TE.

        Without (26188sec)
        5797 dps
        75.0% hit, pierce
        86.4% hit, backstab
        100% hit, DD

        With (38964sec)
        5872 dps
        76.3% hit, pierce
        87.1% hit, backstab
        100% hit, DD


        Basically it translates to 5.1% *fewer misses* for both pierce and backstab. Ie 87.1-86.4 = 0.051*(100-86.4). For what it's worth when I did this test a couple years ago it came out at 4.7% fewer misses. I haven't retested it recently though without the Enhanced Thief's Eyes AA.

        However it seems likely that the "increases effectiveness of your Thief's Eyes ability by 10 percent" means it moves 4.7% fewer misses to 1.1*4.7% fewer misses. All things considered, it's a tiny change.

        The question is... do we care? Ask for more and we'll be labelled as doing significant ADPS. Ignore it and it's kind of underwhelming and makes the AA essentially useless.

        Comment

        • EQ Community
          Round Table Member
          • Jun 2006
          songsa

          #5
          Re: Thief's Eyes

          brogett said:
          View Post
          The question is... do we care? Ask for more and we'll be labelled as doing significant ADPS. Ignore it and it's kind of underwhelming and makes the AA essentially useless.
          Its always interesting to tell devs about that cause they may not know the AA is not working properly and may think +15% of accuracy for the group is a good Adps which can explain for a part our actual dps in raid/group.
          Now do we want a fix or not?
          Songsa
          Raging Fury
          Antonius Bayle

          Comment

          • EQ Community
            Round Table Member
            • May 2004
            brogett

            #6
            Re: Thief's Eyes

            songsa said:
            View Post
            Its always interesting to tell devs about that cause they may not know the AA is not working properly and may think +15% of accuracy for the group is a good Adps which can explain for a part our actual dps in raid/group.
            Now do we want a fix or not?
            I've PMed Elidroth and will report back any communications from him.

            Comment

            • Registered Member
              • Sep 2004
              Kriyn

              #7
              Re: Thief's Eyes

              Would the parse with TE be skewed due to the fact that you're essentially on the mob for a longer time?
              I'm ok, how are you?
              Kriyn Nutzforcatnip - 90 Vah Shir Shaman
              Rinerin Poisonblade - 95 Gnome Rogue
              Nilliben Kneebasher - 90 Gnome Warrior
              Rodcet Nife (Quellious)

              Comment

              • EQ Community
                Round Table Member
                • May 2004
                brogett

                #8
                Re: Thief's Eyes

                Kriyn said:
                View Post
                Would the parse with TE be skewed due to the fact that you're essentially on the mob for a longer time?
                It should make the accuracy of the longer parse slightly higher (error rate reduces in proportion to the square root of the number of hits), but the averages should be able right.

                I didn't check the average hit values though - they should be identical as TE doesn't change that, but it's an indication of error levels in the parse.

                Comment

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