I feel like a fool everytime I'm spying around and someone taps their fingerbone ring recognizing that I am there because they can see the invisible. I think rogues, at least the one's in their 60's should have an advanced hide ability where they cannot be seen by those who can see invisible, even if their are a few rare items that would allow others to still see them, and if there were a long refresh timer of say an hour. What good is a rogue that cant go unseen by the majority of players. Isn't this a class defining ability after all? Don't we have to move like a turtle to get around while hidden while others can just pop on invisibility either with an item or with a spell? My use as a corpse retriever seems rather poor when it takes me so long to get a corpse to where it needs to be, while someone else can get a few corpses in the same time. We are weak enough in pvp I think, and allowing for a Hide ability that cannot be seen by players with regular see invisible would only balance our class out in that area I think.

ya, this is something that is brought up all the time, the problem is nothing will ever be done about it..... if you think about it for a second it seems pretty odd to take away a poster boy charectoristic of a class by making see invis items so easily obtainable.... but thats eq for ya. Dont expect it to ever be changed, the devs have much more important things to do like fixing the poor poor necros, or helping the wars who just cant seem to hold aggro....

Ive been saying this same thing for a long time now, i just imagine how much more respect i would get in the arena if rogues with SoS were invis to see invis players... the last time i fought a 65 war wih no see invis, i absolutly destroyed him (sure it took a bit of time, but the fact remains)... I bet if we all got together and had a bis cry session about it like the warriors did then mabey sony will give us some attention ... /ponder...

think anybody would care if we ent on strike?

Yeah Shroud of Stealth should be immune to see invis, after all what is an Assassin supposed to be? They should be able to take on someone 1 on 1 and kill them, thats their job, that's their definition. And if they have taken more than they can chew, they should be able to escape unharmed. I'll admit, Im a poor duelist when it comes to timing mellee blows in pvp. I dueled a troll shadowknight the other night of the same level (51). He wasnt even wearing any armor, and he still wrecked me. I barely got a hit in. Darkness, and a few other spells are much easier to hit with because they dont require the same timing as mellee. Too bad I couldnt bash. Darkness further slowed me down to a crawl, and I couldnt hide due to his see invis. Sure I kept trying to dance around to get a bs in, but I was basically ineffective. Now if I had been able to go invis I might have stood a chance. Sure his dots would still eat me away, but I would have been able to do a bit better in getting some sneak attacks in. Maybe poison would have helped, but that would have been a one shot thing anyhow ( unless he couldnt see invis and it would have given me time to apply some more)
Not long ago I ran into a small gm event on a Saturday night. I was asked by a player who was approached by an NPC to help protect someone in Freeport that was targeted for Assassination. We finally found him cowering by the arena, and lo and behold a couple of Dark Elf assassins appear out of no where. Now I had a cloak that allowed me to see invis, yet they would pop in and out immune to my see invisibility to attempt their assassination. Thats how it should be. (We did end up saving him although I died in the process)
Enough griping I guess, if there is one thing they should fix about rogues, its that they should make SoS immune to see invis

imo sneak/hide should work as follows in pvp...

Those with see invis should be able to see rogues within a bubble around them. Upon the rogue leaving the bubble it should clear you from other people's targets if your sneak/hiding. If someone casts on you and then you leave the bubble during the cast time, it should still clear the target and provide a special resist check that can be modified as needed. If the spell is resisted sneak/hide stays. If the spell lands it drops sneak/hide and gives the caster the target back.

but hey what do i know...

I like the bubble idea, but i dont know about the special resist check. Perhaps if it would check a stat/skill of the caster to determine weather the rogue will drop from target upon leaving this bubble, perhaps their channeling? That way rogues could have the same opportunities to interrupt spells as those with bashes, kicks, and stuns....

I am a rogue from a Zek Server and all i can say is: Invis to everyone is maybe to overpowering...

Think this combo:
Kyv Strike
run outta range
Invis
Kyv Strike
ran outta range
Invis
Kyv Strike
(one down)
Invis
and so on...

Rogues will be hated in PvP like Bards are atm...
Dont think I will like that...

Exception: Pet Classes which send Pet after you

From a roleplay aspect you may be right that every PC can see with seeinvis SoS hidden Rogues sounds unlogical when you imagine that a SoS rogue run inbetween Quarms feet unharmed...

In normal PvE you would have maybe problems targeting fellow rogue in group or raid to buff him...

I would like to see that maybe some classes have the ability to notice rogues even with SoS. Maybe every tracker. But then pure dark teams
would cry. You see its hard to make everyóne happy...

Thats assuming the opponent does nothing to stop you lol - they are allowed to give chase, or counterattack if you were to try that afterall. I would say that if an opponent is paying so little attention that they let you kyv strike, run outta range and re-hide over and over then they deserve to get wooped by the rogue.

SoS should be immune to see invis, *but* there should be a chance for people to detect you, like a perception check. Maybe based on class and race even... rogues and monks would have the highest perception ability.

IMO, i would much rather be hated than laughed at On prexus, a good portion of the PVPing that goes on takes place in the bazaar's arena, and i know that it's pretty embarrassing to look out over a group of necros, wizards, bards, pallys and rangers all duking out and know that if you go out there your going to get beaten to a pulp...

sticking with the "bubble" idea, i don't imagine it would be terribly hard to make the effect only work in a PvP environment (IE it works while in a PvP area or against an individual in a duel) or if you you want to just solve the problem of targeting hidden rogue to get them buffed ... just have them unhide, i don't personally know of many situations witch are dangerous enough for the SoS rogues to be hidden, yet safe enough to be buffing =P

Simply put, our ability to hide and sneak at will is one of the things that makes a rogue so unique and fun to play, but coupled with the fact that our poisons are .. well ... useless in PvP, and that half the rogues i see PvPing are relying on "thru-stabs" to land a backstab (bristlebane smile on the other half that strafe and dance all over the place), I feel that hiding and sneaking should play a much more active role in PVPing and not have it's potential torn away just because somebody is tapping their fingerbone hoop...

Think about it, if they were to put this idea into use, SoS and hastened stealth could become the rogues answer to rangers EQ and AM... (Rangers being the first on my "Please beat these f#@#%'s with the nerf bat please" list) but thats for another thread another time =P

I kinda like being able to see invis, but an AA based invis, yes that should be better than regular sneak/hide.
I've had entire conversations with rogues and at the end, they asked me how they saw me. I totally forgot the () around their name, oh well.

I am only lvl 40, so I have yet to experience the AA invis ability.
-Jason

Take the above bubble idea, and also give players aggro lists. After a certain amount of hate points are accumulated, make it impossible for the rogue to stay hidden from that opponent until either is dead. The end.

SD

That is a good idea, maybe instead of hate points it couldjust be a certain amount of damage.

Sorry, but all any player would have to do is have you on target...

Then even though you are invis, they can see the target ring around you.

Plus, if they have you on target, hit you with a range item to break SoS and interupt any chance of Kyv Strike.

If we are still talking about the see invis bubble idea, then all the rogue would have to do is step outside this bubble to clear themselves from their opponents target...

When you hide against someone that cannot see invis, they should lose target. We are assassins, killing a single opponent is our focus, our proffesion.... hide and strike, hide and strike, thats how it should work.
Of course AOE would break SoS. Maybe trackers could have a better chance of locating us and have a chance of actually seeing us. Maybe some high level pure casters could be given the ability to cast a special self only see invis spell which would help balance so that a rogue can't take them down so quickly.
Never forget that even if hidden, if your mellee oponent is facing you he will hit you.

Simply fix for this, would be a pvp based SoS with say 5 minutes refresh.

As in, have a hotkey, for SoS, and you are invisible to every see invis player in the game. However, to reactivate this invisibility to players, you need to press that hot key, which has say a 5-10 mins reuse time.

That would give rogue a powerful tool in pvp, and not make it so it unbalance the game.

Overpowered utility on big timmer are fun, and I'm pretty sure rogues would love the ability to disapear mysteriously in the middle of a fight.

Or Imagine this...

Wizard or whoever.
Lev on.
Run/Lev out of melee range.
Cast white fire. stay cozy where you are,
White fire
white fire
white fire.. Dead melee. (Yes, does not need to be white fire, can insert any number of caster nukes or dots).

For the caster it's an option and has been used/exploited for many years.
Really not so different from not being able to see SoS.

So, what have we done for the lev issue. Peg cloak, potions. Ok. There we have it. Rogues get no seeing SoS and they make 1 or 2 items in game that sees SoS and is as rare as Quillmane. Or shamans can make see SoS potions.


Har Har. good fun imo. I don't really care about people seeing us through SoS or not.

PS: Nerf Damage shields (yes I have max shielding for offhand thx drive thru).

Aye mate, but if the invis to all were to be employed by combat ability, or tome then would we be able to be as cheap as taht? or is kyv strike an aa cause then my idea's basically crap. but some kinda improved invisability skill to where we cannot use any mass attacking skills constantly with it on.
Orr.. I think SOE should just reduce the ability to see invis a little on see invisible items, so that rogue invis (which is the best invis out there for now) is not detected, and then have modifiers for the rogue at say like lvl 50 with improved see invisibility as not to be volnerable to their own class..

Make "sos vs players" a disc, put a 5 minute refresh on it 1and place it on the same timer as daggerfall.

YES, we should all /feedback that, sounds like a real hardy plan