Hey Grabbit.. I don't know if you pvp much but us rogues are on the bottom of the ladder (

It gets very frustrating when you start to attack somone and they just start laughing. With 2h weapons, damage shields, and the channeling skill where people channel our hits and just spam heal or chain life tap. Untill we full Time+ gear we are laughed at in solo pvp.

There is a new pvp system supposedly coming out soon. It is a point system... what good is that supposed to do? Now they just keep score of how many times i die, it dosn't change any class balance. Another pvp system involving new abilities for pure melee was brought up after the point system.. but i have heard nothing else about this. I believe pvp will be enjoyable again if the rogue was to recieve more power for pvp. SKs get it way easy, DT and unresistable life taps on top of being a tank class and 2hers... New abilites like stun or silence or a way to break somone's arm so they stop double hitting me for 400 or just a break down of class vs class would help rogues aton in pvp imo... just a few things to think about

thanks
Bombir, 65 from TZ

If we were able to set traps that silenced or snared or sumthing along those lines and had a decent resist check, i feel that would make our PvP lives alot better. I have always wanted to be able to poison an arrow or a dagger to...that would be very nice and give us more of a ranged chance in PvP

:edit: reworded a few things

They just need to nerf spells in pvp. Especially the currently unresistable spells and healing spells.

And how would you propose to nerf healing spells just for pvp?


Also, the points thing is pretty far from the only change pending for the Zeks - I'd suggest going and re-reading the thread at EQLive.

Give healing spells a 50% chance of being interrupted if your hit with another spell while casting it, and give them a 10% chance of being interrupted for each pvp melee hit you take while casting it.

Percentages of course would need to be tested and tuned for balance - but that would be my general idea. It would have no effect on PvE circumstances (since the interrupt is only against pvp attacks), and would make it actually possible for other players to kill a healer now and then.

edit - sig once per thread please - LT

The Point system is not the only thing being added for pvp, but it is the main thing... The abilities for pure melee(which dosn't look like they will go live) would benifit rogues much more than keeping score of how much we die. Plus you can lose points for killing certain people, so possibly the only people you can kill give negative points.

Having played today as a time geared rogue.

We actually just became WORSE as solo pvpers.

My problem with PvP, is the mitigation that classes have, I rarely get a good backstab I'm capped at atk, and I'm still hitting 400ish with Ifir's.... and thats WHEN I land the backstab, most of the time I get "Target is too far away" ********, when my melee hits are landing but backstab doesn't? Another thing that pisses me off, a cleric with the arms from Ragefire
( http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=4796 ) can beat a rogue if he has the mana/gear/AA, thats without nuking also. Just sit there and spin around or whatnot when they crit heal 8k heals or whatnot. And don't say "you need to dispell the DS off" goodluck when they have 8 clickies.

Zantroz Sneakysneaky

They need to allow rogues to poison throwing weapons or arrows, although throwing weapons is more inline with rogues. That would probably fix most of the rogues problems with pvp. They would also have to lower the poison resist checks on them to.

Rogues are basically dead to anyone who can use range/spells effectively. If a rogue has a spirit of the Sloth or a blind poison on, it could even the playing field.

poison don't land 60+ on pvp servers, and if they do its only for a few seconds.

rogues hardly suck in pvp if played well, in fact on sz there are 3 rogues in the top 15 for points wise.

rogues are just harder to play, since they are more twitch/skill based.

so most people get walked over when they use them poorly.

Here's a tip...

If your opponent has DS like you are so upset about....don't turn on auto attack.

Sit back and joust....learn to time it so you get a succesful BS check as you pass. I don't care what 2hs they are using, you will out dps them if you joust, and your regen should make up for the DS hits.

There are few classes I can't beat as a Rogue. You just have to sit down and figure out strats to try on different opponents.

Rogue poisons have the be the most useless thing i can think of for pvp, 100% resist at 60+ like krysanth said. Maybe a lure poison?


Kanvas
Tallon Zek

Sooo.. we should Joust a Druid? BS is about a 5 sec refresh. This means between our BS attempt, we will be Ro, IoR, SD or greater, then summer flame.

Joust a Bard against his DS? Timing a "frontstab" is very diffucult on a selo player thats dispelled the hell out of you. good luck ever doing any damage that he doesnt regen 3 times faster then a Rogue and max possible regen.

Joust a Mage? Well, you pretty much have to but thats a losing battle the momment it was chosen. The DS will tear you apart, the pet will be on you while you try to focus on the mage the entire time and between the BS you will be mala and nuked.

How about a Warrior since they have a number of worn DS.
Joust a warrior? Most smart warriors dont joust with a weapon, they joust with Kick. STUN! now they get 2 free rounds of attack on you and have 2 times you HP and regen just as much as you.

Any healer class loves a Jousting Rogue. c3 or better is their friend.

Joust a Ranger? Need I even address this?

Anyhow, only time jousting is most effecient... is on another Rogue.


However if you have to fight a Mage or BL or anyone with a bad mofo pet.. jousting is usually the better option as you need to stay away from the pet.

PS. NERF THE DAM DAM DAMMAGE SHIELDS!

poisons need to Zone with you for starters, nothing like having to sit on your ass for 10 seconds to apply a poison that if you are lucky will last for 2 seconds.
big resist modifiers for poisons are second. its not like it would be some how broken for rogue poison to land everytime in pve (or close to it) and it would be nice to have it land at all in pvp.

I have found that jousting with just backstab against a damage shield is usually not the best tactic because you will give the other player too much time to execute their strategy. You have to just suck up the damage and hope to kill them before you die on the shield. The OoW AA to reduce DS will help a lot here. Use duelist, deadeye, shurikens + deadly aim (if you have em), and just hope to out DPS them.

actually, with a time shuriken and the new throwing aa, anyone you face is going to have to be in melee range, or you'll eat them up...

Well...a few points

I agree with druids, a good druid puts a Rogue in a predicament....do you:
A)Go full burn and try to kill him before his DS does.
B)Use burst DPS (just backstab and bursts of melee) and fight the clock against DoTs.
-Basically you need a lot of hp's to beat a good druid.

As for Bard...it depends on the Bard. A good Bard is near impossible to beat, but every time Ive beat a Bard I've jousted him.

Warrior...never joust a warrior unless he has a badass weapon and 10k unbuffed. My best strat against warriors has been full burn. Their DS is not the issue that it is with Druids/Rangers.

Rangers...you have to balance burst dps (jousting again) vs. staying in range so they cant kite you with bow.

Mage....sorry, but if you can't beat a mage you must be doing something wrong. Personally I've -never- had an issue with Mage's DS.

Clerics....dps them til they go oom, hope MoK doesnt land.

As for the comment that jousting is only useful against other Rogues...Jousting is PERFECT for SK's, Pally's, and Monks.

Note...all my experience in PvP is on a blue server. Things may work slightly differnt on PvP server's since competition focus' on PvP.

Clerics wont go oom without you dying first unless you can get some nice burst dps in there. now their mark lands somewhat in pvp, that's reverse DS.

Mages have a nice damage shield, mean pet, and nukes almost like a wizzy. Not very easy, maybe its a blue server thing.

Its a little hard to follow rangers close enough around in wide open areas so that they can't bowkite you, which does a hell of a lot of damage. On top of that they can hit pretty hard with 2hs and have nice damage shields.

bards are hard to kill with selos. you wont get much damage in jousting and they can regen it back just as fast. tendonslicer > bards though

I think its just my personal experience. Mage's are rare on my server, and a good mage that visit's the arena is hard to find.

I am not very familiar with the high end game, and then not familiar with playing a rogue in pvp, but:


A lot of jousting and backstabbing depends on the speed of your computer, and at the lower end that can mean a quick death. If you can't land a backstab, you are going down absolutely against most other mellees.

I have only done rogue pvp once in an arena against a lower level troll SK. The troll fought me without any armor, and I had full armor although it wasnt that great... must have been in my early 40's.
Darknessed me and that was the end of the show. I barely landed one hit not to mention trying to backstab was impossible.... even before he casted darkness. In the end he wiped me clean without even denting his hp.

.

Every class has a weak point against a certain type of enemy. It seems rogues are weak against pretty much every enemy.



Oh yeah.... I did play on a couple of the Zek servers for quite a while, from Kunark to Ykesha. Bash is definatly a bonus as you can completely shut down casters, but unfortunatly all of us are not barbarians, and I'm not too sure about stun items for rogues. (Maybe that oldtime whip from BB??))
Fortunatly I'm on a blue server now so I don't have to worry about that.