This is a curiousity that I have been wondering about for some time. I know that Lifetaps are great and wonderful and there are a lot of them out there to put on your weapons, but I have been wondering about some of these other procs.

For example.. I like the Ethereal Strike proc because it has a stun, DD, and a hate reduction. I have been using it for some time and I seem to be able to avoid aggro in most situations.

Alot of the offhand weapons that I have been looking at have Chaotic Strike, which I know my tanks drool over and want much as they can get. Should I be avoiding these weapons like the plague or do they not piss the mob off enough to really worry about it?

Are there other procs out there that hate reduce or are nice to have around for the shear damage of them? Is there a proc that you just love, but it is something just a little different?

Thanks for the insight..

Generally speaking, if a warrior is drooling over a weapon, I'd sooner cut off my arm than loot it. But that's just me :p

I really try to avoid stun proc weapons because after anguish, warrior agro takes a bit of a hurting on raid mobs. Most encounters in demiplane in after have a stun/silence/fd/mez/charm or one of the 5, also when you really crank up the DPS you get a couple of chain stun proc's, (It happends) and your gonna die. Some people love their AM swords and swiftcleaves but I just can't use a stun proc weapon.

I know rogues pick up weapons like Notched Blade of Bloodletting (chaotic strike IV) and even considered it myself for a while, evade is pretty powerful and even with an agro type proc I think in most situations you'd be fine. On rare occasions though when you may proc a bunch and fail a few evades in a row, you might get agro (of course you still have escape/attack off at that point).

I have heard complaints though and rogues wishing they hadnt gotten the agro proc weapons such as NBoB. For those that love such things, they probably like to solo or duo or tank from time to time, in which case such a proc would be handy.

If you have access to similar ratio weapons though, I'd skip getting one a tank wanted for agro.

I prefer/use all lifetaps and likely will continue to (even though as we get more hp the lifetaps will become less useful), figuring that any slight heal I may get could be helpful in all the AE type situations we can get into if in a raiding guild.

Same with me. I try to avoid anything with a stun proc.

Untill I got Tunat's aug I used a 175dd cold aug in my primary and the life sap aug in my offhand. Maybe it was just me, but the cold seemed to get resisted less than any fiery strike aug. Life sap seems to be resisted less than either of those, but I wanted the extra little bit of dmg, not too mention it seemed to make sense, since my main already had a fiery strike aug.

So for me would be saps/hot (still drooling over DK), then DD, then on the other end of it anything with a stun, or a rune of some sort. Not sure why, but I really hate those as well. Never had one, but heard the rune is also an agro grabber as well for some reason.

I got notched Blade auged with don chaotic strike IV, it's fun I guess, but I haven't noticed a big difference in agro compared to when I use my DK which is auged with uqua aug. Just to prove a point, equiped Notched, used stun proc, on ZI-thuuli and even disced.. no probs at all with regular evading routine and I had stun proc go off like a chain gun too.

life taps work for me, and if a rogue in my guild asked for NBoB or Swiftcleave, I would see them kicked out cause they would just end up dying and DK is a better offhand anyway.

I only use my notched for tanking.

I've used both DK and NBoB w/ tunat aug extensively. If the warrior has decent weps and knows how to keep agro, there will rarely be any problem at all. I'd keep away from getting CS4 augs though =o. That said, I've always liked lifetap procs for their combination of offensive and defensive value.

There's an interesting and valid point -- The mere fact that a weapon isn't the best one for a rogue during normal raiding and grouping situations doesn't mean it doesn't have some situational utility for a rogue. I carry around most of a 10-slot bag of weapons with me at all times. Some of the weapons in that bag are only rarely employed, but once in a while a situation arises where one of the oddball weapons I carry is the right one to grab.

For example, I carry around an Obsidian Scimitar of War which I got off of Vallon Zek during a raid in the Plane of Tactics last year. I've augged it with a Deep Crust Fire Geode I got from the good side DON camp. That aug gives the weapon a proc called Enraging Blow which generates a good chunk of agro.

Needless to say that weapon doesn't come out to play very often, but now and then while grouping it gets pulled out after the tank and everything else like a tank has died and the only two options left are me trying to tank or watching the rest of the group wipe. In other words it's a highly situational weapon. If a weapon dropped during a raid or while grouping that had something like Enraging Blow as its proc I wouldn't even consider going for it unless it was obvious that none of the regular tanks needed it.

I also carry a Fabled Serrated Bone Dirk in my weapons bag. It procs a snare/DOT spell called Dooming Darkness. Again, it's a weapon that rarely gets pulled out (for reasons that have to be obvious to anybody likely to be reading these messages), and it generally comes out only while soloing in places where mobs are prone to running off toward their pals or while grouping in a place where we need mobs to be snared and our snarer just died before the mob we have in camp was snared.

I don't know if other folks carry weapons that they rarely use. Some of mine only get used in the MPG group trial of weaponry. Others are used only for other rare situations as I have discussed above. These are valid considerations when selecting weapons, but I would never deprive another character of a weapon that would be an upgrade to their regular main or offhand weapon if it was only going to be a situational weapon for me.

Oh, and by the way, I am partial to lifetap proccing augs, too, as you'll see by looking at my main and offhand weapons in my Magelo profile.

i've seen warriors with some pretty poor choiced weapon combo's, one in my guild looted a relentless guardians staff for his main hand(he has poor agro), and recent war/tank apps who were turned down from top guilds have come in with rotting dps weapons from anguish/don. and, i've also heard of warriors looting dk's before rogues, and other real dps classes.

so, i wouldn't go by this statement entirely

Generally speaking, if a good warrior, that I'm not ashamed to be guilded with, is drooling over a weapon, I'd sooner cut off my arm than loot it. But that's just me :p

Fixed for likenew

much better

i came to the conclusion with our pants poison that the agro on it was irrelevant if the mob was immune to the stun but pretty big if the mob was not immune to the stun. Everyone says im high specially paladins~ But i think i know what i saw after a year of using it around mobs that werent immune and mobs that were immune. So to this day i avoid stuns on weapons but i dont they are an issue on raid mobs.

Agro is wierd by class anyway. Bards get almost no agro off of the same sort of proc effects a paladin gets mad agro from. A bard mez can be broken without taunt and the mob never even looks at the bard. A chanter mez broken without taunt results in chanter tank rawr. Theres obvious signs that agro rules can vary by class. So who knows~

Its such iffy turf though that i pretty much just mind my business usually and avoid chaotic strike and let everyone else do what they are going to do.

I had to wait for 1 rogue, 5 tanks, and 3 rangers to loot DK before I got mine...

bah

ok outs, for starters, bards are made to have as little agro generation as possible. all procs they get on weapons, and all spells they cast, cept for ones like fade or memblur, give 1 hate point. if they had all the tools they have, they would be the biggest agro whores ever, able to cast while moving, etc. so they were made so that they don't get agro.

and paladins, stuns are how they get agro. you think they rely on group and quick heals for that massive agro? :p no stun works on lvl 71+ mobs, and for a while, paladins had pretty poor agro in high lvl zones, like rs+. but after complaining for a while, they got some changes in how stuns work. i don't feel like looking up any threads on the subject, but there stun agro got a massive boost, resist or not. and the other tanks got upset over it.

so, stun procs, give us a sizable amount of agro, though each a different amount of h8, kinda like how our mez > sk's best agro spell. and bards have the worst agro generation in the game, and were made that way so they wouldn't have the best.

Personally I live by my procs, but I'm also not always out to avoid aggro, I've learned to solo and even tank fairly well, so sometimes I rely on major aggro grabbing procs, like what I call my boom sticks, a Fabled steel hilted flint dagger, and a flint forged cudgel, both have a 625 DD proc. When on my own I use a Locustlure for slows, a Fabled serrated bone dirk + Fabled obtenebrate short sword for snares, soulpiercer and 2 lifetap aug'd blood points to keep myself standing. I don't really understand why some people make a big deal about a rogue useing a weapon that could potential steal the agro from the tank, I find that that is easily solved by evading, that and I wait till the tank has gathered up enough aggro for me to use my good procs. I don't think rogue's are given enough credit when it comes to knowing which of their weapons to use when, as far as controlling aggro goes, so I don't really think the proc's themselves have anything to do with that, more its how the rogue is being played.

Thats all i was saying likenew. That hate rules can be different by class. This is how im able to cling to my experience that our pants poison generates more hate on mobs where the stun takes effect then on mobs where it doesnt. You seemed to be explaining my own post to me. Which is kind but not needed. Im really sure i saw our pants poison do more agro on mobs that it stunned then mobs that was immune to it. But at the same time i have to deal with paladins who say their lowest level stun generates as much hate on a level 55 mob as a level 73 mob. Since im not a paladin i cant testify to the truth of that but i assure you many are sure its true. On the other hand im talking from a deep and varied experience with our pants poison so the only thing i can do is offer bards/chanters on mez to point out that the engine already has one example where two classes use different rules for hate generation from their spell effects. Once you enter that then it ceases to be far fetched to consider the possibility that rogue proc effects and paladin spells or other classes knowledge of these effects arnt the same.

As for misi. The rub with that opinion is when your a rogue swinging a 30+1/23 with a 122 accuracy and you have a habit of taking pickup groups you can group with a huge variety of people. Including tanks that are far inferior in their raw hate generation. Sooo the you can evade only takes you so far.

With the pants poison it could be problematic back in the day when i was grouping in a place where the stun took effect. Like ldon for example. 3 procs back to back would rip agro right off a weaker equipped paladin. So the question your really using when considering a stun is how deep below you do you want to group with comfortably. Me i want DEEP. And i do group to a very low gearing and im personally ok with saying i have less issues for having not choosen a stun proc to be rid of which i would have to down grade my dps.

I'm pretty sure that the stun from ornate pants clicky generates the same agro whether the stun takes effect or not -- as would snare poison given the "this mob is immune to snares" message -- as did Intimidate before the revamp, when it was "resisted" by mobs that were immune because they were over 55.

YEah im bucking the majority on this one. The marque moment came when they upped the level on the stun so that it started stunning higher level things. It was really noticable that week that the agrod changed. Prior to that it didnt stun anything you would ever fight in a group. And in that era this was an easier conversation to have cause on any one day you would be dealing with mobs it stunned and on the next you would be dealing with mobs it didnt stun so you got alot of practical experience in the difference.

HEre though its important to draw the distinction between unstunnable by level in the face of stun procs and unsnareable by flag.

For example though now that you bring it up. I tried to explain this to a monk that caught my using our pants poison in riftseekers. And i also had our snare poison on me.

Our snare poison when it procs you get agro ON THE PROC. I want you to watch this if your think on this thread because this is what i watched to come to my conclusions. It stands to reason that if an agro on a proc is more then more often you will get agro ON THE PROC. (you can fake some numbers and convince yourself this must be true).

When I use our snare proc poison i see alot of agros facing me right on the proc. As soon as i proc the mob flips. This is a strong agro component.

THATS WHAT YOU SEE WHEN OUR PANTS POISON PROCS ON SOMETHING IT STUNS. Thats why it stands out. You almost never see [i mean almost _never_ see] that when your using our stun poison somewhere where the mob is to high to be effected by the stun.

I tried to explain this to the monk that night. That when procs are truely being a problem you will see alot of mob flips right as soon as you proc. Pants poison on mobs over its level doesnt generate that effect. On the other hand snare proc poisons generate conspicious flips right on the proc.

I proposed to the monk that he tank somewhere where the mob cant be stunned by my poison and then he tank somewhere where the mob can be stunned by my poison and see if he didnt notice the conspicious flipping right on the proc that happens when im around a mob that can be stunned by it. I felt assured that he would see it since it happens so much.

So anyway thats what i propose you watch when your evaluating this. But i should note that i have always played with my procs and me being meleed in the same window. Which makes it stand out. If they are seperate windows then you would have a very hard time eyeballing it. However if the same is true for you then i propose that you be mindful of this effect. Watch closely when you proc and when you start getting meleed around different sorts of mobs. See if you dont notice any patterns.

You might say well maybe the reason you dont see the pants poison rip agro off a tank anymore is because agro pace is much higher now. But ehh these are ancient conclusions of mine. This is preGoD thinking essentially when these ideas stuck in my head. When they were relavent amounts of agro.

I have no idea what you're saying. Can you put the idea in like 3 sentences?

Im saying i feel i have observed something your statements dont accurately describe. Im saying my experience is that snare procs have what can be described as a conspicious agro. The stun proc on our pants poison only sometimes had that conspicious agro. The sometimes was when the stun actually stuck.

Nobody has ever accounted for this observation other then to say i observed wrong.

I tend to be skeptical of forum opinions since i came in when "strength doesnt do anything at all dude" was the common knowledge and figure everyone else is to so i usually focus on what you might change in your observations. So my post is about what you might try to observe while playing since if anyone of us was inclined to parse it out on a rogue they would have done so already.

What I say you should observe is exactly when you get agro and how often does it relate to exactly when your proc. If you watch that night after night mob after mob youll see a pattern and its that our pants poison when it actually stuns draws more conspicious agro. If for some reason other people cant see it then i dont know what to do but wait for someone to finally test it on a rogue.

But one problem is most people dont play night after night where our pants poison actually stuns. Does this effect extend into chaotic strike which actually stuns? I dunno never augged it because of this experience.


I never put anything into 3 sentences. I dont think i know what they would be other then "you are wrong dude" but whats the point of that specially when I know what im saying isnt the common view. The crucible is on me to atleast provide a testimony about from where do these ideas come. You have the luxury with the common view in that you can state the commonly known facts and rest.

Though im suspicious there isnt alot of rogue parsing on the subject. And I came in during the era when strength was "known" to be a useless stat [2001 around these forums on ezboard]. And they werent saying "i dont like str you should get hp" they were saying "str is useless dude it doesnt do anything". And you would ask why does it increase your attack and they would tell you it had been parsed that str doesnt do anything.

And people then asked is attack from attack better then attack from strength. And people again would tell you it had been parsed and raw attack was better then strength.

Then along came a beastlord who parsed it so methodically that it couldnt be denied. He concluded and showed that str attack and straight +attack were the same thing. Down went a fact that persisted two years.

I know where you are coming from dude, I don't think conventionally either; but I still don't know what you are comparing.

"getting agro" as in mob turns to face you
vs.
"building agro"?


Filibuster > me

in principle the larger the agro generated by a single event the greater the frequency the event causes the mob to flip and start hitting you.

This is an observable phenomenom and one that i decided i would parse if i ever went about proving this since its where my intuition stems from.

What im saying is this is consider a proc as generating 5,50,100,500,1000 agro as 5 different procs. You have to be within 5 pts of the top of the hate list in order for the 5 pt hate generating proc to cause the mob to flip towards you. You have to be within 50 pts of the top of the hate list in order for the 50 pt hate generating proc to cause the mob to flip towards you etc for all the rest. Since your likely to spend less time with in the lower values and the higher values always pick those lower values up as flips themselves then the higher value proc should cause flips with greater frequency.

In this case each proc event is of two types:
1) a proc that goes by without you getting agro
2) a proc that goes by and you immediately getting agro

The second can be stated as a percentage of the first.

What im saying is observable by the naked eye is that the stun proc from the pants shifts frequencies at which the event #2 happens compared to event #1. Something not consistant with the idea that its always one hate value.

A shifting ratio of #2 to #1 is consistant with the idea that the hate value is shifting because of some internal mechanics of EQ. Im saying i think the internal mechanic is the stun actually stunning.

At this point you can say STOP! You havent actually shown that the frequency of event #2 to event #1 shifts. You suspect that. Thats true. If i had a 3 box i could check it. Even though the measurement is extremely vulnerable to inconsistancy i think the shift of frequency would be so strong that it would validate my observation and require explanation. I almost talked the monk into doing the test with me that one night during our argument.

He's saying he sees agro from successful (pant poison) stuns and not from stuns where the mob was over the level cap. He sees agro from snare poisons whether they land or not. His proof (?) is that when the stun is successful his next line is usually himself taking damage, and when it is not successful, he doesn't get hit on the next line. Since paladins claim their stuns generate the same agro whether or not they land, he conjectures that agro rules may differ by class.

Explanation in 4 lines.

I dont know if i would call it proof but yeah. Half the problem is for the effort you put in to solving these questions that have answers SoE already knows you might as well do real undergraduate research. So most of the time im thinking im just going to go with my gut unless someone else sets it up, and if my guts wrong its not that big a deal. But then i should prolly resist these threads because people want FACTS--not intuition, and im aware of that =)

I think you are saying:

"a stun that takes effect generates more hate than a stun that does not take effect"

...and that is not necessarily something you can measure based on the number of times a mob flips on you -- because you are not considering the agro that you and the tank are otherwise building up.

Another way of looking at what you are saying, I think, is to consider the hate generated by a spell or proc that:
1. is resisted
2. is "resisted" due to immunity
3. lands for partial damage
4. lands for full damage
5. lands for greater than normal damage due to a vulnerability

There are probably warriors, paladins, wizards, and necros that can give you more insight -- but I would wager, based on my experiences, that they are all the same.

Experiences:
Assassin's Feint vs. mobs that are immune to mez
Snare procs vs. mobs that are immune to snare
Dooming Darkness resists
necro alt and all his spells
etc etc.

Another angle to consider is the fact that a 14+4/18 weapon generates agro as an 18/18 weapon -- agro is based on the potential damage -- and if that idea carries over, then it would further suggest that all of the situations above generate the same amount of agro.

Whatever the case is, you have to agree that rogues wanting to minimize the amount of hate they generate are going to want to steer away from procs that are known to build it.

I'm glad you are thinking outside the box (what an inside-the-box phrase that has become) and seeing things on your own though because that is one of the greatest skills you can develop.

3 of us were responding at the same time ~

you also have to consider where you went for both, and who you went with.

you said you went to rs for the stun immune mobs? so where did you go to test mobs that you could stun? did you only go with a monk and a healer? if you brought a healer which healer was it? there are a few extra variables when testing in old, or much lower content, when compared to higher end content.

i'll get into it more later, gotta go

Well it wasnt tested it was proposed. And it does have woes but it was an objective quantification to a subjective classification. You could help some by base lining it against procs you think dont change in hate values.

Also I feel compelled to point out that if your the type that believes that there is no hate rule variation across the classes then warriors/paladins feel like they have answered the question of how much hate is generated by chaotic strike IV. Its ~550 hate per a proc but it depends on the HP of the mob.

Chaotic strike generates more hate for warriors then snare and slow procs.

http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum...ad.php?t=13878

PErsonally im not on board the unified hate rules theory. Thats more hate on a single chaotic strike proc then evade is supposed to shed. And i think that would be brutual to a rogue. But on high end mobs rogues dont report brutal failures of ducking agro and i just cant believe your blasting off with 550pt hate procs.

But! If you are inclined to disagree based on occams razor principles or some such common sense then your inclined to avoid chaotic strike like the plaque.

The problem is i think everyone is using a variation of "hmmm something must be different" and pick and choosing your heuristic. Otherwise I dont see how you could sanely loot a 550pt hate proc.

[not to mention my criticism that i think some classes might just all but shut down their hate generation on stuns when the stun is to low to take effect something not yet tested]

I wish we had hate reduction augs

I use the Ethereal Strike and it has a -200 to hate as part of the proc... it is the only aug that I know of that has that as part of it...

the stun portion of that proc will give more agro then what the -200 takes away. its kinda like our dart of immobility, it snares and lowers hate a bit, but the hate reduction doesn't fully overwrite the hate gained by the snare, resisted or not.

As far as Ethereal Strike is concerned, It is my understanding that the hate reduction portion of proc is tied to the stun and only effective on mobs that are not stun immune.

Love my Bone Melt proc~

There's a dagger in ToFS that was actually nice for my rogue when I was leveling there, however the proc stuns your character and spins them around for several seconds. I believe it's called the Dagger of Distraction. I like that SOE just puts random **** in the game like that. I believe there was another dagger that, when proc'd, gave you a (stack of?) bandage.

Realizing that most people dont use these procs & probably shouldn't bother with the weapons... I would have to say that my 2 favorite procs are the one on despair and the one on ritual spinesplicer. I <3 unresistable procs and unresistable taps are even better. Too bad the dmg/dly make these weapons pretty worthless nowdays.

On higher level mobs where they are immune to the stun portion of the proc from nbob or similar weapon is going to have no effect on aggro. Its not like its resisted and still gives agro. So in most raid situations an nbob is not going to be any higher agro then any other weapon of its ratio. On mobs where the stun is going to connect 70 and below that are not immune to stun you may pull some aggro early in the fight if you get a couple procs, since it is in the off hand this should be minimal. You could put pure hate procs in your weapons and still be able to evade off aggro from a similarly geared war and would have a hard time taking agro from a paladin or sk with out evading at all. So in my mind all weapons reguardless of natural proc are game.

I like lifetap proc's... Little extra regen never hurts!

Hrmm i was always under the assumption that resisted stuns still give aggro. Oh well guess i was of base on that.... .... ....

They do give agro on resist.

Spells aggro the same on a full resist partial damage full damage or crit. It's been heavily parsed. Just use mez disc on a level 71+ mob and watch it get ticked off despite the spell being unable to land on it.

lifetaps are my personal favorite for procs.

This is how I'm tanking trash in Anguish as I type. Mobs are immune to my mez disc and I still get plenty of aggro.

"Its not like its resisted and still gives agro" I should have been more clear here. I am saying if its immune its not like a resist where it still gives aggro...

If it is immune to the stun portion it does not give aggro. If you get the message this mob is immune to the stun portion of this effect then you do not get aggro from the stun portion. Immune is different from resist.

I do not believe this to be true.

A level 71 mob you try to mezz doesn't resist it, it's immune because it's too high in level. It's not like you get the "resist-message". But to make sure, try to mezz a mezz-immune mob... you'll get plenty of aggro from that.

Not completely true. I know it's definately not the case with spell stuns (5+ years of playing paladin). However I can't say definitively regarding procced stuns, though judging by some of the non-dmg stun procs I would say not true. Just my 2cp. Though I have noticed that I seem to gain significantly less aggro with my rogue using the exact same stun procs as I do with my paladin just on procs alone.

sounds like we need some testing done.

A resist = agro, an immune message = auto-resist, which means immune = agro.
Clinging Darkness on a snare immune mob is still 1200 agro tested thoroughly by me on my shadowknight, there is no agro differential when the mob is immune to snare.

Aggro is a fickle beast.

A shaman with a slow stick can build so much aggro on a rooted mob it isn't funny.

In tacvi, keep clicking for as long as it takes for everyone to get ready for the fight.

Let the warrior taunt the mob off (hence achieving more aggro than the shammy), and then begin the fight.

The shaman will remain #2 on the hate list until he is killed, or the mob dies.

This works even on Slow-Immune mobs.

Stuns (like slows) work on a "DPS lost" scale. Essentially, the longer the stun, the more "potential" dps lost, the more aggro gained. Thats why stuns are aggro kings for Paladins. They have stuns that produce the best desired effect in this regard. Stunning a mob for 5 secs prevents 2k dps (random number), and hence they instantly gain 2k hate.

Bards on the other hand, do not gain the same benifit, because all of our stuns are instant (and bard-coding), and hence do not cause any loss in dps (other than cast interupts). This is the reason bards can "pre-slow" a mob, and reduce its aggro on a slowing class (since we reduce the dps-lost ratios).

It doesn't matter whether the stun lands or not. The fact that it had to make a resist check (even immune) is what produced the hate.

My 2cp.
Rappapart

to sidetrack the original post in a different direction id like to begin with: dont choose weapons for thier procs alone. Dedgredex's flint forged crugle comes to mind as one of the worst weapon choices for the lvl required. a rogues job is more often than not to dps. first and foremost you want your normal melee attacks to mean something. its what you are going to be doing ~80 % of the time. followed by BS and procs and evadeing hopefully in that order. (im not a math wiz so all numbers are tossed out in general. pls dont take anything as direct fact numberwise) now if you are holding junk weps and hopeing for procs, focusing on dex and other mods to increase those procs above solid weaponry you are missing the point of dps.

also to remember, if you cant control your overaggro or have to wait till the tank builds aggro just to assist you are missing out on more dps than you would haveing lesser or no procs going off to steal aggro with. basicly the ballance is this: best ratio vs lesser ratio and a proc. you are only ever going to get so many procs and only so many will be landing anyway. in the end its what your melee damage is that you need to worry about 1st and formost.

after that id reccomend tap procs for survivability/ reduceing stress on your grp/raid healer. followed by stun procs for interrupting casters (when it actually lands its a great boon) and their usually high dmg output. if you are geared enough to get the good weps and fill them with augs you should be geared enough to take a few hits when you overaggro (it happens be prepaired). you should be around similar geared ppl that can generate and hold aggro well enough to keep you out of harms way (if you are doing your job properly). if you arent keeping up on your other gear as well as you are on your weponry. or if you just cant seem to find a good tank to hold aggro then you may want to look at cutting out the procs (stuns first then taps) for survivability.

as far as proc aggro is concerned either you are going to have a hellish time keeping the mobs off you or theres going to be no problem. and thats usually based 100 % on your tank's ability to do his job. i wouldnt worry about which augs you choose to use for aggro purposes alone. overaggro is usually a black and white thing. theres not much grey involved between which procs you use (aside from sheer aggro generateing ones such as enrageing blow or anger).