I can't get on the worldofwarcraft.com's boards yet so I'm asking here in case someone can fill me in. Basically, I've heard there are two types of builds, assassination and combat. I want to make a combat rogue as it's more my playstyle. What talents are critical for any build? What talents are critical for a combat rogue? What are helpful ones that aren't really neccessary but are highly suggested? Thank you
For the duration of the beta, you will be able to find an NPC in each city that will allow you to reset your talent points and experiment with different talent paths. (Note: this option is ONLY available in the beta).
Hemorrhage hasn't been a DOT for a long time now. It's an instant weapon attack that debuffs the mob; while the debuff is on every melee hit the mob takes gets +X. Hemorrhage also gives +1 CP and at 35 energy is the cheapest CP builder I know of offhand.
I like Subtlety main / Assassinate secondary a lot because it allows you to be flexible. You can open with either a +40% crit chance Ambush (soft targets, non elites) or a reduced-energy Cheap Shot (armored targets, elites)...toss a few low-energy Hem's for CPs...Evis at +15% if they're almost dead, or Kidney Shot to keep them locked down, or a +20% damage Rupture if it's a boss mob...etc. Preparation has also helped me out a lot; I do a ton of tanking when I duo with my wife's Priest and being able to use Evasion multiple times on quest bosses is great.
All in all, I'm very happy to see that almost every rogue loves their talent build, no matter how wildly varying the builds are. Shows that the talents are pretty darn solid all around.
I agree Berael, there are a ton of good ways to build a rogue talent wise. I have gone back and forth between about 5 different builds that I like myself. As of today Im actually leaning towards a 31 point subtelty build with combat seconday. I think it will be effective, and subt/combat is probobly the least used combination of the three to focus on, so hopefully will be somewhat unique as well.
I had pretty much been planning on 26 Subtlety, 25 Assassinate...then those bastiches moved Blade Flurry up to be more accessable - ARGH! Decisions, decisions! ;p
Doing 26 Subtlety, 21 Combat, 4 Assassinate would give me Blade Flurry and the Precision and Dual Wield passives - both of which seem like huge advantages in any situation - while still retaining Malice 4 as well...but then I give up Cold Blood, Lethality, Improved Evis, Ruthlessness, Relentless...but on the other hand, Lethality was just nerfed...but on the other hand, Cold Blood is nice for those "eat flaming Ambush doom" moments...but on the other hand, Blade Flurry is useful in larger fights...sigh. I need more talent points. ><
At first glance I loved the look of dual wield specialization also. I guess it was just me wanting to make my WoW just like an EQ rogue which doesnt take the 1/2 damage penalty. However, on further investigation I found out that getting max dual wield spec doesnt raise offhand damage to normal levels. Instead it raises it up 50% from the already 1/2 damage, or raises it to 75% normal damage in other words.
I did some thinking and decided for 5 talent points that isnt worth it. At best I feel the talent is just 'ok' considering what it does. Though it is still beta and if sometime down the road it gets changed to giving offhand weapon full damage then that changes everything, and it becomes a great talent.
I have played both betas rogues till 60 and then another to 35 - always undead. Now im leaning towards troll , more racial differences.
I was wondering - who here has tried the dual mace rogue - i mean with Mace speciality 5% stun for 3seconds ... with Slice N dice .. seems pretty good for my 3rd rogue.
My ass build is good but im getting sick of the build. Let me know how anyones mace build has turned out.
I have to agree, there are several different ways to build a rogue whether it be for a pvp or pve style of play. I tried a few different builds before I got the one for me. I was really impressed to see that a rogue could be just as efficient with the right build and a pair of maces or swords, as one could with daggers. I think it makes grouping as a rogue alot funner because every rogue you team up with is unique.
Anyhow, here is what I will most likely use for my first rogue in retail, with assassination being my primary focus...
Improved Expose Armor-3max
My build as of now, at release for a 60 rogue - all this could change in the blink of an eye, but I am pretty confident in this one, reasoning at the end:
Assassination Talents (31 points)
Improved Eviscerate - 3/3 points
Increases the damage done by your Eviscerate ability by 15%.
Malice - 5/5 points
Increases your critical strike chance by 5%.
Ruthlessness - 3/3 points
Gives your finishing moves a 60% chance to add a combo point to your target.
Murder - 2/2 points
Increases your chance to hit while using your Sap, Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot abilities by 5%.
Relentless Strikes - 1/1 point
Your finishing moves have a 20% chance per combo point to restore 25 energy.
Lethality - 5/5 points
Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Sinister Strike, Gouge, Backstab, Ambush, Ghostly Strike, or Hemorrhage ability by 30%.
Improved Instant Poison - 2/5 points
Increases the chance to apply Instant Poison to your target by 4%.
Improved Kidney Shot - 3/3 points
Reduces the cooldown of your Kidney Shot ability by 5 seconds.
Cold Blood - 1/1 point
When activated, increases the critical strike chance of your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, or Eviscerate by 100%.
Seal Fate - 5/5 points
Your critical strikes from abilities that add combo points have a 100% chance to add an additional combo point.
Vigor - 1/1 point
Increases your maximum Energy by 10.
Combat Talents (8 points)
Improved Gouge - 3/3 points
Increases the effect duration of your Gouge ability by 1.5 seconds.
Improved Sinister Strike - 2/2 points
Reduces the Energy cost of your Sinister Strike ability by 5 Energy.
Improved Backstab - 3/3 points
Increases the critical strike chance of your Backstab ability by 30%.
Subtlety Talents (12 points)
Camouflage - 3/5 points
Increases your speed while stealthed by 9%.
Master of Deception - 2/5 points
Reduces the chance enemies have to detect you while in Stealth mode. More effective than Master of Deception (Rank 1)
Opportunity - 5/5 points
Increases the damage dealt when striking from behind with your Backstab, Garrote, or Ambush abilities by 20%.
Initiative - 2/5 points
Gives you a 30% chance to add an additional combo point to your target when using your Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot ability.
Some common questions:
Why no defensive talents?
1) in the event I do end up pvping frequently, dodge makes killing warriors even more difficult, as one of their best (if not best) pvp attack is based on you dodging them. High dodge % in PvP turns rogues to mush.
2) Although that does leave the parry talent, my 31,12,8 build doesn't leave room in the combat line to put points there, 3% chance to parry is not as effective as 30% chance to crit on a bs.
3) Finally this build is very paper tiger, that is to say you kill them fast and with as much precision as possible; putting points into defensive talents hurt your offense greatly, and really (after testing) end up leaving you with less health generally (granted, there are exceptions, but with a good assassination build, as I feel this is, you tend to either come out without a scratch, or quite beat up, with skill you minimize the latter and genereally know by the start if you are going to survive. If things arn't looking good, pop and improved gouge and run)
Why assassination? Isn't combat better for soloing and non-situational dmg? Isn't part of beinga rogue is doing well in every situation?
1) Although a combat build is more reliable, it is also weaker. In addition, and more importantly (becasue the reliability is only slightly higher and the numbers are only slightly less) I believe the assassination build takes more talent and player skill to master; also, it is slightly more rewarding - if you are good at ti you will be doing more dmg then a combat rogue, both solo and group pve, and pvp. Basically, I would rather be known as a good player because of my knowledge of the game and my skill at playing my class then the gear on my character or the gold in my bank.
2) some argue that rogues are 'versatile and adaptive' and although I agree that is true, the jack-of-all-trades, swis army knife persona is one I have never particularly liked, as such, by focusing on an assasination build, I believe I am following my conceptions more closely, I prefer the sneaky, assassin-like rogue to the dungeoneering one.
Why did you choose xxxxx instead of yyyyyy?
Not gonna go through each choice now, but if you have specific questions I can answer you.
I believe the assassination build takes more talent and player skill to master; also, it is slightly more rewarding - if you are good at ti you will be doing more dmg then a combat rogue, both solo and group pve, and pvp.
Unfortunately, logging in beta proves the above statement very wrong. Combat non-dagger builds were the highest sustained dps builds found in beta.