My guild of five people merged guilds with another guild. I've known one of the leaders for about a month, and we decided to merge because they seemed to have a similar mission as we do (ie we have families, don't expect us to log on every day, and if we have something come up, logging off is perfectly ok, extrapolate as you will).
So we're talking about the merge beforehand while grouped with my friend, and an epic item drops that nobody wants. We decide to sell it on the AH and split the money. Fast forward to the evening, we get invited to the new guild.
The friend in the group I was in before asks if I still had the epic item. I say yes. He said "We like to keep epics within the guild. Try to sell it to a guildie for whatever you'll get for it on the AH."
Sounds reasonable to me. My husband happens to go to school with (the guy who wants the item, not the guy I know), and I was just inclined to give it to him. But a friend in my original guild knows the item sucks for warriors (he plays one) and no warrior who has done his research would want that item over a similar, easier to get item. We tell this guy that, tell him we'd be happy to help him farm the item instead of him wasting his money on it. He has a one-track mind and just WANTS WANTS WANTS.
Meanwhile, I am fielding tells from five people in the guild, no kidding, not five minutes after we joined, them informing me of this surprise loot rule regarding epics. I am getting frustrated, and my guild is wanting to leave this guild because it just seems like these people are loot whores and we dont want to deal with the ****ing drama.
So basically, I was going to COD the pauldrons to him, but he later told me to nevermind, and he would think about it (yeah right) and he was sorry to have caused trouble.
Just somewhat apprehensive abuot this guild now. That whole encounter left a bad taste in my mouth. What do you guys think? The loot thing was a total surprise. I was in an EQ guild that did the same thing, but it ended up being that you couldn't sell any loot and if you did, people would guilt trip you into giving it up. God forbid anyone make money /shock. I hope that's not how this will end up. Fortunately we saved our guild tag on another character so we can go back if we want.
I am thinking trial period of a week, or whenever we decide we can't put up with this ****.
There are few epic world items that are really worth it compared to the cash you can make, especially since most of them have equal blue items somewhere (i.e. krol = rend, etc). You are probably right about the guild being full of loot whores, you didn't even get the item while you were in the guild and they try to make you give it up? thats ****. If i were you i wouldn't have even mentioned it to the new guild though
Loot is so much different in WoW, you shouldn't let anyone try to guilt trip you into giving something up if its not the smart thing to do.
A friend of mine got invited to a guild like the one you describe. He asked me to check out the webpage for him. I looked at it and found two very interesting points.
1) 90% of their charter was lists of loot rules. Everything had to be sold to guild members. If guild members didn't want something you had, then you had to donate about 60% of those items to guild enchanters to disenchant for shards. So you only get to sell 40% of the items that you loot and that no one wants.
2) The guild had next to no members yet. They aren't even an established guild and they already have insane loot requirements. I'm going to sacrifice my ability to sell loot I earn in order to get the benefit of 8 new friends? No thanks.
I myself have been invited to no less then 4 guilds, not including those that have random charter sign requests in Ironforge. Of them, only only one has been from a member who actually grouped with me for an extended period and enjoyed my company. The others, when scrutinized, reveal that they have no guild charter other then: help each other and share loot, and they seem to be compiled of random people. The forth guild I'm considering joining, but the recruiter hasn't been online when I have in the last little while.
That and rping from log on to log off takes energy.
Ouch... I had no idea WoW guilds were going to be that way. I honestly thought it'd be the opposite of EQ, considering loot in WoW is SO plentiful. I'm surprised to hear of so many loot-hungry guilds.
(Well OK, not THAT surprised, since we've got many of the "SoJ plz" crowd from Diablo 2 around.)
I'd do what you said, give it a week and see how it goes. Maybe the people that wrote you with "Epic plz" are on their way out of the guild anyways. I bet out of the 5 people that wrote you, at least 2 of them would take it and sell it on an unguilded alt. But I'm pessimistic like that.
If i were you i wouldn't have even mentioned it to the new guild though
Well that was kinda hard, because one of the guild members was in that group.
I bet out of the 5 people that wrote you, at least 2 of them would take it and sell it on an unguilded alt. But I'm pessimistic like that.
Well to be fair, they just want you to sell the epics within the guild for what I could get for it on the AH. Which is relatively fair, but we were so put off by them ignoring our offer to get him something better. THe guy who wanted it, knows my husband IRL.
Compare to Spaulders of Valor, but then, he said he didn't want the Valor set (scroll down the link for set bonuses).
Compare to Wailing Nightbane Pauldrons, a common drop from a mob in Stratholme. Since the guy isn't interested in Valor, I personally think these are best, but then I don't play the class. He had also told a guildie beforehand (before he knew we had these) that he was not interested in the stamina stat, which is just about all the Stockade Pauldrons have.
One of my guildies who was in the group when the pauldrons dropped plays a 60 warrior, and he didn't want the stockade ones. Nor did the warrior who was with us. I think there's a reason for that, and that's because Stockade Pauldrons are better sold than worn, because there is better out there (again, I really don't know what would be better because I don't play the class, but I trust my guildie, who knows from experience).
You weren't even in the guild when that dropped. It sounds like purple greed, where people become convinced that a purple has to be better than a superior blue just because it's a purple! And that incident would be a big warning sign to me. I guess you'll find out sooner or later if the entire guild is loot whoring but man, if that had been said to me about an item I got before I joined a guild and the rule just came out of the blue without us getting to know about it - I'd rather be unguilded than put up with more of people's loot drama crap.
Thott's down or something right now so I can't compare Stockade to Wailing Nightbane, but I will tell you that I would take Stockade over Valor. Valor set bonuses just are not worth it, especially when items like Mastersmith Girdle and Warmaster's Legguards are available.
Nice armor, +20 stamina, AND +15 defense skill makes a killer shoulder item for warriors. Higher defense skill, higher chance to totally negate incoming melee damage.
However, in your situation, I agree with you... sounds like loot greed.
Edit: Got a chance to look at Wailing Nightbane...
And quite frankly, I don't know how your warriors are set up or what they're doing, but Stockade > Valor > Wailing.
I was randomly invited to a guild called "Minions of Poon" and the guildleader instantly made me second in command, and had to ask me how to spell every rank in the guild. The one he didn't ask me to spell, mine, he misspelled.
So my group (well, 3 of us from my original guild) got another purple item today: Krol Blade.
As soon as it drops, we all say to each other "Don't tell anyone else" or we'd be pressured into selling it undermarket to someone in the guild. Why is this rule there? It's so stupid. It's like a forced government subsidy to people who can't get a Lexus yet want to drive one or something.
The pauldrons thing was kind of a misunderstanding, at least between us and the guy who wanted them. He made a spreadsheet way before we joined and that was his top choice. But the other people who sent me tells about it really pissed me off. We just gave him the pauldrons and washed our hands of it.
I'd really like to talk to someone in the guild about this whole purple policy. I don't even think it should be a policy. It's forcing a relationship when there isn't one there (assuming you would give the item to your best friend for free or drastically underprice anyway).
Hmm, i'm kind of inclined to agree now that i see what items you were talking about. Stockade Pauldrons are better then both of those items if your main tanking something. The wailing one is better for pvp, but those items are close enough that i dunno. And as for the Krol blade, its better then almost every sword out there for a rogue (i'd argue a rend set would beat a similar krol/skullforge set up), certainly a top 5 weapon, i'd think you'd want your rogues with one of those, i dunno.
Well I did say that I wasn't at all knowledgable about tank loot, and two warriors passed on the item in question, so I assumed it was bad for tanks.
If the rogue was a friend, I would be inclined to sell to them, but then I don't really know anyone in the guild well except two people, who don't want it anyway. Everyone else is a stranger to me. I've bent over backwards in the past to help strangers, and all it did was get me bit in the ass. I don't care to have that feeling again.
EDIT: and I forgot to mention, we're hanging onto it instead of selling it to see if we like anyone enough to offer it to them. I figure that's a fair thing to do.
Can we go back to the part where you merged with a guild full of people you don't know? I'd like some more indepth coverage of that decision making process.
It sounds like you either have to decide to actually become a part of this guild, or leave completely. If you don't want to behave like a guild, that is, help people you aren't directly friends with, follow guild rules, and the like, why bother with the front?
I see a lot of meaningless excuses that center around you lying to your guild to hide loot. You don't know them so you won't sell them an item you don't want at "whatever you'll get for it on the AH"? You didn't seem to have a problem selling the item to a stranger when you got it, what with the supposed plan of selling on the AH to begin with. You chose to lie to the guild and hide loot, instead of discussing your differing opinions with the guild openly and honestly. Do you really believe that's going to solve anything, other than giving yourself a reputation as a shady loot-whore, when your guild inevitably finds out you've been telling your group to hide good items from the guild? Showing some semblance of respect for someone you knew well enough to make an arrangement with should be obvious. You can talk to the guild leader and explain your opinions/concerns and see where to go from there.. work something out and stay on, or agree to disagree and part ways. Lying to the guild over loot is ridiculous. You say you won't help strangers, why did you go through with this merger? And how is selling someone an item at the same price you'd get on AH "helping" anyway?
The friend in the group I was in before asks if I still had the epic item. I say yes. He said "We like to keep epics within the guild. Try to sell it to a guildie for whatever you'll get for it on the AH."
Sounds reasonable to me. My husband happens to go to school with (the guy who wants the item, not the guy I know), and I was just inclined to give it to him. But a friend in my original guild knows the item sucks for warriors (he plays one) and no warrior who has done his research would want that item over a similar, easier to get item. We tell this guy that, tell him we'd be happy to help him farm the item instead of him wasting his money on it. He has a one-track mind and just WANTS WANTS WANTS.
So even though you admitted to not knowing much about tank loot, you decided to "help" the guild warrior by not selling him the item he knew he wanted (at AH price, no less), but instead telling him his choice was wrong.
If this is your idea of bending over backwards to help, I'm not surprised it's bitten you in the ass before.
Can we go back to the part where you merged with a guild full of people you don't know? I'd like some more indepth coverage of that decision making process.
Well, my husband goes to school with one of them, and I knew the other from game for about a month. We are both small guilds, and thought it could be fun. The rest we don't really know that well, but as I said before, it's just a trial run so I figure there's nothing to lose.
Jhani said:
You say you won't help strangers, why did you go through with this merger? And how is selling someone an item at the same price you'd get on AH "helping" anyway?
Well that's what I was wondering personally. If they want the item why don't they buy it off the AH? It doesn't make sense, but there it is. We went through with the merger because we wanted to try something. If it doesn't work out, no big deal. If it does, then great.
Elerion said:
So even though you admitted to not knowing much about tank loot, you decided to "help" the guild warrior by not selling him the item he knew he wanted (at AH price, no less), but instead telling him his choice was wrong.
Well two people who play the class well told me that item was worse than the nightbane ones. I'm not going to take the time to research whether it is or not, I just thought because they said it was worse, it was.
Also, if you noticed from the original post, I offered to help him acquire some of the ones we thought were better instead of selling them to him for "market price."
So, assuming he wanted to take me up on that offer, I could either:
A) Sell the item to someone else for 100gold (or whatever) and likely spend several hours trying to get shoulders for the guildie (and several runs through an instance likely). or
B) Sell them to him for 100 gold. I think A requires more effort, assuming the market price thing holds up.
Which looks like it requires more effort? Hell I was trying to save the guy some money and help him get better (I thought anyway) shoulders to boot. Incidentally, we decided to just give them to him the next day. He showed my husband the template he created long before the pauldrons dropped.
Also from the first day, fielding tells from five different people and a slurry of guild chat and teamspeak chatter makes me leery of the whole situation. Personally I don't really care much about loot, but I take issue once someone tries to tell me what to do with it.
If looking out for my interests and the interests of my friends over people I don't know that well, but would like to get to know them better before I give them valuable things makes me a loot whore, so be it. I'd rather not even have the loot issue as part of a "guild rule." The rule is stupid anyway, as Jhani pointed out.
Personally I don't really care much about loot, but I take issue once someone tries to tell me what to do with it.
You made an entire post about items for a class you don't even play with links to their statistics and how common they are, and you don't care about loot?
You sure are quick to point the loot whore finger at these other people. I don't even understand what got you mad about it in the first place. Did you ever think that maybe that's the way the guild works, and that if some cool thing that you wanted had dropped that they would have saved it for you? No, it seems like you instantly turned a little incident into a reason why these other people are all loot whores (have you even met most of them yet?). Oh how upsetting it must be when guildies want to BUY loot from you (at AH prices no less).
..... but here's what got me....
So basically, I was going to COD the pauldrons to him, but he later told me to nevermind, and he would think about it (yeah right) and he was sorry to have caused trouble.
He even apologized for attempting to BUY loot from a guildie who couldn't even use it!
So what if you got burned by people in some game before? You act like everyone that isn't in your little clique is some ******* waiting to take away your precious precious loot. These people had nothing to do with it, why take it out on them? Personally, I would sympathize with a rant from the other guy. "Guildie wouldn't even SELL me an item they can't use".
Yeah the guy may have gotten a little over excited about loot, but that's what makes getting loot fun. Give him a break, he even apologized over it, and I don't even think he's the one who should be apologizing in the first place (you sure it isn't really your husband? hah, couldn't resist a woman joke there.) I see that you gave him the item, which is cool, but I really don't think you should hold as much of a grudge about it as you seem to.
These games are a lot more fun when you really don't put that much emphasis on loot. This guy may get something you really want someday and return the favor.
That rant was written about half an hour after I logged that night (which is probably what makes rants fun sometimes heh). I was bombarded with tells about the pauldrons, saying I should give them to soandso, something I did not expect, nor ask for.
Links were for clarification, so people knew what I was talking about. And I would never expect someone I don't know too well to save an item for me. A friend, yes, but people I don't know, no. Especially not stuff that dropped when I either wasn't there or wasn't even in the guild.
How would you feel in that situation, soon as you join a guild, not five minutes later you get five tells, guild chat and teamspeak chatter over a piece of loot you got when you weren't even a member? But you offer to help them get something you think is probably better (because two other people didn't want the item or said it sucked) and they totally ignore you and say gimmie gimmie gimmie?
Being that you got the stuff before getting in the guild I can see your pain.
"WHAT?! You got that item 4 levels ago and you didnt give it to a guildie?!"
"I just joined the guild 2 minutes ago, how was I supposed to know"
"LOOT WHORE! Why didnt you keep it knowing you were going to be in the guild!"
"I didn't know I was going to be in the guild until 10 minutes ago."
Ya, that would cause me to make a rant as well. People can be stupid at times.
I can see both sides at this point however (Forgetting about the whole 'got it before join' thing)
He had marked it down as a "I want" item without researching everything.
You were told there was better and wanted to help him out becaue he's now a guildie. You also didnt want to 'Waste' the item by giving him some inferior equipment that he may replace in a day or two, and being out 100 gold as well that you could use to improve your own equipment or help younger guildies.
Plus isn't this the Rant section? Therefore Kinare is entitled to do just that, rant. We don't have to agree with what pissed her off nor should we tell her she is wrong with being pissed off.
The inner Machinations of my mind are an Enigma - Patrick Star
A steel fist in a Velvet glove, the force is there but it's concealed just below the surface.
So my group (well, 3 of us from my original guild) got another purple item today: Krol Blade.
As soon as it drops, we all say to each other "Don't tell anyone else" or we'd be pressured into selling it undermarket to someone in the guild.
At this point you're breaking your own justification. You were in the guild. You chose to remain in the guild when you knew the rule was present. And then you broke the rule.
While I agree that the guild expecting you to give something to a guildy that you got before you joined the guild is wrong, I'm quite sure the above isn't that situation at all anymore.
And I'm not sure the guild asking you to sell it at AH rates to other guildys is entirely terrible.
The only thing I have a problem with is when a guild expects you to give loot to members instantly after joining.
I dunno, I think that you all thought/said the same thing about the second purple shows there's some serious reservations about the guild from your old guildies. Somehow I doubt this merge will last, and that may be a good thing since it doesn't look like the two groups are well suited to one another.
If looking out for my interests and the interests of my friends over people I don't know that well, but would like to get to know them better before I give them valuable things makes me a loot whore, so be it. I'd rather not even have the loot issue as part of a "guild rule." The rule is stupid anyway, as Jhani pointed out.
Not what I meant at all, but I didn't phrase it so well. It's not that offering a guild member first opportunity to purchase doesn't help. It obviously helps, for items that aren't always immediately available in the AH. It's not a stupid rule, it can be quite beneficial to the guild. What I meant was, how does doing so put you out? You describe it as if giving a guildie the opportunity to purchase something at the going rate is giving of yourself, as if it's sacrificing something. When I asked how it was helping, what I meant really was, how does it hurt you?, as per the context of your saying you didn't want to help strangers anymore, and the implication that to do so was undermining yourself and own needs. Unless you really need that inventory space it takes up until you do the deal, I don't see how it would. As you said, it wasn't expected to be given away for free, or given at an undercut price. It wasn't "gimmie gimmie gimmie", but rather "sell me sell me sell me".
As for the loot whore stuff, look at the situation objectively. You may only want to save the item for the purpose of giving it for free to someone you know and feel deserves it, but, if you just accepted some new members to your guild, and you found out 2 days in they were hiding the best loot from the guild and lying to leadership, what would you think? What happened at first? I can understand your confusion and apprehension regarding getting so many tells. I can understand not feeling it was "right" because the item dropped before the merge, despite that it wasn't expected as a gift, or at any personal loss. But once the rule was made clear, and you opted to let it go instead of butting heads with the leader and telling them up front how you disagree with it, instead choosing to lie to the guild... that's not reasonable behavior for people you respect, or if you expect them to respect you. That's what I mean about possible reputation consequences, because no matter what you intend, if you sit there quietly without saying there's a problem and just sweep purple items under the rug, it's gonna look pretty damn bad if/when someone finds out. Your old guild may be united in their intent to keep good items among you, but accidents happen, people chat a lot about loot, and it's not unusual for people to blurt stuff out unintentionally.
At any rate. I think it's a perfectly reasonable rule, but if you don't, you should say something to the guild leader, and see where to go from there. Maybe you're just not compatable, as has been suggested. There's no reason to not handle it honestly.
Not what I meant at all, but I didn't phrase it so well. It's not that offering a guild member first opportunity to purchase doesn't help. It obviously helps, for items that aren't always immediately available in the AH. It's not a stupid rule, it can be quite beneficial to the guild. What I meant was, how does doing so put you out? You describe it as if giving a guildie the opportunity to purchase something at the going rate is giving of yourself, as if it's sacrificing something. When I asked how it was helping, what I meant really was, how does it hurt you?
I see what you mean now. I thought you meant "How does it help them?" meaning, how does it help them if they are paying the highest price that the AH will bear? Yes, theoretically you are right, that it doesn't set me back any if I can sell the item to a guildie for the highest price. But then again, it might just make them resent me for charging the highest price to them.
Since I don't know some of them so well, maybe there's some unwritten rule that you sell for undermarket. I know a guildie sold another guildie a nice item for 50 gold, when it easily could have brought 500 gold. It's hard to know if I don't try it, and if I try it and play the hardass role (aka trying to get as much money as I can) then I might make some enemies without knowing it.
And I've asked since I first posted. They said selling purps to guildies was more of a guideline than a rule.
Your old guild may be united in their intent to keep good items among you, but accidents happen, people chat a lot about loot, and it's not unusual for people to blurt stuff out unintentionally.
True there.
At any rate. I think it's a perfectly reasonable rule, but if you don't, you should say something to the guild leader, and see where to go from there. Maybe you're just not compatable, as has been suggested. There's no reason to not handle it honestly.
I guess my main concern is breaking some unwritten rule. One person I was guilded with in EQ out of the blue, called me an opportunist once (using different language). I was the first 250 tailor on Rodcet Nife and I charged people for my services (guildies got free combines on stuff they would use, assuming they brought materials). I ended up having all this neat gear that could be bought, like a Mistwalker Scimitar, and other hard to get stuff (mana stone etc). Basically it boiled down to "having money is wrong when others are struggling" (its hard to explain without relating the whole story and I am sure it's not of anyones interest anyway).
I'll see if I can talk it out though. Thanks for the advice everyone.
Yeah it was ages ago though.... Um... 2000ish to 2003ish. I played the character Kinare (64 druid), and Xorena (65 priest). My husband played Hallertau (65 bard). I think someone still plays them. Not sure, we sold them when we quit.
I don't think my WoW guild even HAS a charter. It's just there so we all have people to talk to since there are no serverwide channels. And sure, you can ASK guildchat for help with something, but good luck on someone actually paying attention.
Yeah it was ages ago though.... Um... 2000ish to 2003ish. I played the character Kinare (64 druid), and Xorena (65 priest). My husband played Hallertau (65 bard). I think someone still plays them. Not sure, we sold them when we quit.
I remember you from here but never in-game. Then again I was gone by summer 00.
Yeah we started after that. My husband had a friend who played EQ and that's all the guy talked about when they were on their cruise of the Med and the Gulf (he was in Navy). They got back in August and that's when we started playing.
I bet out of the 5 people that wrote you, at least 2 of them would take it and sell it on an unguilded alt. But I'm pessimistic like that.
