maybe YOU are the clingy one!!!

But from my point of view the Jedi are evil!

I swear, you guys take... what sounds like... a very nice girl and over think the issue until you all make her sound like a demon.

Damn Man she sounds nice, her dad sounds nice. She is telling you what to expect with her, her dad didn't kick your ass...what the hell do you want any way?

She told you what to expect. As long as you are as upfront with her as she sounds like she is being with you, you should be golden.

Hell you guys are perfect either. And Yes Men play JUST as many games as women do, you all just refuse to admit it.

Bzzzt. Wrong! Even most girls admit that women play way more games than men.

Well I have to disagree.

I think it goes both ways.

Guys can't admit that they are vulnerable so they have to play games too.

OMG admit that you have feelings for someone and aren't sure how they feel back? Nope, ya gotta Man up and act like you don't care. Then come here and post about what a bitch she is and how she plays games.

And Heavens forbid you just come out and ask a woman what she wants instead of stewing over it in the dark.

If you Think that there is something wrong...Just ASK. Yes you may get the "nothing" answer, but if you feel like somethings wrong then there probably is and asking her again to tell you wont hurt you any.

Yes sometimes we feel you should already know whats wrong....any one who we feel was in touch with their feelings would have known. So Yeah that there is a game, but so is the whole If she wont tell me I wont try to get it out of her...it's just a Mans game.

As to Nimmbulls comment that most girls admit to playing games, they are more than likely the kind who don't have women friends as they find them too "catty" which means to me that they don't like women or themselves all that much.

If a woman can't be friends with other women...they aren't the kind of woman you should be trying to be in a relationship with. They will always see women as competition.

But of course this is all just my opinion, me being a Woman in a healthy long term relationship <meaning married for 20 yrs and living with him for 23> with a man I've been friends with since I was 15. So my opinion isn't probably worth all that much.

Bah, I'd like to smack some sense into some of you boys who post here

And for those of us who do ask the questions, and never get straight answers?

For that matter, what's with Women and never asking those questions?

Maybe all the Women in my area are just nuts, though, it's possible.

Yeah you're right...its the Womans fault. It's always the Womans fault.

The Man couldn't possibly be wrong.

We all know men don't play games nor do they give mixed signals.

A man ALWAYS says what he means and means what he says.

A man always will call you back and is always honest that all they want to do is get into your pants.

Of course a Man wouldn't tell a Woman something JUST to have sex.

A Man Always wants a long term committed relationship.

All Women are evil.

All Women are nut jobs

Only Women play games.

Only Women hide their true feelings.

Date Men.

Men are honest, trustworthy and true blue.

Yes. If only we liked the butt-sexes, we'd never need you :(

You OK there Velvet? I sense you're hyperventalating IRL.

Seriously. Men can play games, sure. But does a typical man play as many games as a typical woman? Hardly. We're just not nearly as good at it, or maybe we would (I sure wish I had some friends who could guilt me into some sort of eating disorder, I do need to lose about 15-20 pounds...)

And Velvet- where did all your men's playing games knowledge and experience come from if you've been with the same dude since you were 15? Or was there a lull there where you got burned?

lol Yeah Im ok, I just get tired of reading here about how horrible all women are etc.

It would be nice to see some of you men admitting that possibly YOu too are at fault in the way your relationships go.

First of all everyone is saying how cool this chick and her dad are...then it devolves to how she must be some crazy woman and he should head for the hills.

Then again how hard it is to find a normal woman these days...Man you all make us crazy.

Or is it that others here are so shocked that Nick may have met someone whos cool and normal that you all have to make him start to think that something is seriously wrong with her.

Who knows, I thought she sounded nice and her dad was cool and understanding of how the evening went. Now I get teh feeling Nick is backing off.

All women are horrible.

:p

Sorry! ^^ Please stop hyper-ventilating, Velvet. Passing out, whilst fun, gets old after awhile.



Here's some hearts.


Better now?

One - Nimmbull of course that is YOUR opinion, you being a man, I could say the same thing being a woman about you men. I can't say that I feel women play more games than the typical man...and I feel Im a typical woman. And trust me not only CAN men play games but they do so...often.

Are you saying that you do not know men who say stuff to women just to get into their pants? Hell I knew men who did that.

I was in high school in the early 70s. At that time if I wanted to run track and cross country I had to be on the mens team. So all four years of high school I had boys PE. The only thing I did with the girls for PE was use the lockers. Because of that I can on good authority say I have first hand knowledge of what is said when guys talk about girls...and KNOWING said girls I was also privy to what the girls said about the guys and what the guys HAD told them. Trust me...you men play just as many games as women do...just on a different level.

I also had auto shop so again for 4 years where I was the only woman in the class. Then in college I was a Physical Education Major, once again I was practically the only woman in all my classes. I have heard it all.

Two - I have been friends with my husband since we were 15, Im 47 now...that leaves a few years that I dated other men. As I said he was my best friend, he and I both dated other people between the time we met and got married.

No actually I have never been burned, I have never been dumped.

My husband did break up with me when we were dating but we talked about it and came to an agreement about it. I was mad at him for about 4 months but more because he "borrowed my car for 3 weeks so he could take another girl to the beach for a week during spring break <that and he lost my pet snake to boot> But we remained friends and talked about our significant others with each other and gave each other advice.

I was always honest with the men I dated.

I've dated more than one man at a time but I have always told said men I was seeing others.

I have dated men just for sex, I also told them I was just after sex while doing so.

I have had many "friends with benefits" I think thats healthy

I am like many of my female friends.

While I have told the girl on a few occasions that they were "bootie calls" if you say that to MOST girls, fat chance on ever getting a bootie call again. A girl on the other hand, what straight guy would turn that down??

A-MEN!


Oh, you were be facetious...

Wait a tick, something dont jive with that statement.

Oh btw thank you guys for egging her on, i got a @#$% earful over the phone about y'all while i was working.

Heaven forfend...

You've always done the right thing, as you put it. [For the most part]

Yes, when I said the same thing, I got shot down.

That's rather a double standard.

Seriously, there's only one common element in my relationships -- ME! So if they fail, well ****... that's got something to do with me.

There's a thing called sarcasm that doesn't work well online though...

And a sense of humour about these things, 'cause what else is there some times?

[Edit just for Deuce:

We try!]

Bah to the lot of you

and Duece...what did I call you? ohhh yeah a Brat...thats right I called you a brat

And Trust me Im not mad...annoyed some but totally not mad.

It does get tiering to read all the women bashing

Well let me blow your mind for a sec, I'm going to rant about her for the exact opposite reason.

I could have had sex with her tonight. I had to tell her to stop when she put her hands down my pants and said "I want you". I told her I couldn't do these things with someone unless I was in a serious relationship with them. Then I said I thought she wanted a relationship from the things she told me, and I got some crap about how if we started a relationship then things would just fall apart in a month. So I asked what exactly it is that she wants, just a toy?, and she said she didn't know, so I took her home and told her to think about it.

Don't believe me if you don't want to. Want to hear my ultimate fantasy with a girl? No, it isn't screwing some hott supermodel. It's waking up at 3:30 in the morning, holding a girl that loves me unconditionally, with a cool breeze blowing in through the window. Ultimate feeling of tranquility right there. I don't care about sex. Making out and messing around and all of that is too much damn work. I just want love. But no I'm a guy I'm not supposed to want that. And I finally run into a girl who has me nearly convinced she could turn into that girl, turns out to just want sex. What kind of ****ed up world am I living in. Everything is the opposite of what it should be and nothing is right and no one is happy.

How about, instead of whining about how everything doesn't fit like a puzzle piece into your fairytale world, you just enjoy life a little.

Seems to me the GIRL was playing games with Nick...

...ahem... back to your regularly scheduled girl bashing...

That's easy!

Several things I've learned since leaving the dating pool and getting married five years ago.

• I'm always wrong, and on the odd chance I'm right- I shouldn't gloat.
• I am by far more insecure and bi-polar than my wife. For every minor grievance/problem she has, I have a host of worries that I rarely share with her.
• I can't imagine a day without my wife (well permanently that is).
• Every relationship (good and bad) prior to my wife shaped the man she married, whom I think she still likes. :p
• While I don't regret most of my past, I wouldn't change a thing.
• You don't have to give up your true self for a relationship. You just need to know HER true self is just as important.
• Women make babies. They're like these beautiful replicating Transformers. They win everytime and deserve a degree of emotional insecurity and temporary insanity.

/agree

Sounds like she's seriously interested, but she's at a point in her life where SHE just wants a little uncommitted fun. Guys don't have a monopoly on those feelings. Carpe Boobem, she'll ditch you in the Fall or you may dazzle her enough to keep you around for awhile.

S'ok, Nick. You just need another 3 or 4 years on you. Then you'll look back and beat your head against your desk and say, "What was I thinking!? WHY was I thinking!?" and regret your decision...but no worries

Or some prophylactics.

I believe you Nick. I past up a few chances to have teh sex, for various reasons.

But I think this is too funny:

I give you 10 years and then the meaning of tranquility will mean a king size bed, the dog sleeping on the floor and 8 hours of sleep.

I agree. I know I'm retarded, I can't just take what life throws me and enjoy. And this time it has thrown me something I've never been given before and I still can't be satisfied. Yay for being effed up.

That's not Effed up, that's never satisified with what you have. You're moving towards an ideal that doesn't exist.

Of course, Safehouse advice is prone to... well.

It's not uncommon for men or women to be turned off by someone coming on too strong, someone being too transparent about how they feel. She likes your mystery, what she should understand is you probably want her to have some too. At least, that's how I would react. If she slept with you on the second date you would forget her quickly, if she suddenly left you tomorrow you would be sad for who knows how long.

Well, there's always what I decided to do. Sometime last March I was like, Ah, I'm so sick of this. I need a break. For a month, I'm going to completely stay away from women, I'm not going to approach any and I'll minimize all mandatory contact with them. A month rolls by and, surprise, I'm so less stressed out, so more cheerful with my friends, and, simply put, such a hell of a lot happier a person that I decide to do the same thing for the next month. Then the next one. And the one after that. And so on. Weeee.

I had a friend (I say had, he already left for college, haven't heard from him since, came back to town for a week, never called me, bastard.) who whenever he was dating someone, we were simply plan b. Saw him maybe two dozen times outside of school in 4 years. 75% percent of those times were when he was single, which was maybe 4 months tops. Don't let a woman do that to you :( it sucks.

And now he has forearms like Popeye.

Yeah, the only downside to it has been the occasional derision.

I love giving advice on the SH. No matter how ****ed up your advice may be, the person asking for it always goes and does something even more stupid.

Clingy? I want to post a link to a clip on drunkstunts.com, but it's sooooooo very not work safe... Go searching for it yourself if you want.

Lox

edit..

She sounds good I would keep her. I had a great girl like this around the end of November. till like the beginning of Feburary. She never caused drama, didn't bitch when I hung out with my friends instead, her parents were great and really liked me (especially after I hooked up a remote start for her mom) and was an all around great girl. Wanna know what I did? My ex gf. The one who causes non stop drama, bitches about everything and her mom hates me. Moral of the story? Keep her and don't mess it up.

Similar story here, Jaesin:

I met someone at a club while one of my favorite local bands was playing. Gorgeous and cute at the same time, funny, smart and into the same bands as me. I went head over heels, and we got to hanging out quite a bit. Well, you know what they say about nice guys...

Before long she's not returning my calls. My friends start telling me to be careful. A little while later, I run into her out on the town and she introduces me to her new boyfriend. Yeah, whatever. A few months pass and she calls me up wanting to hang out again. It seems that "boyfriend" has been beating her. I'm ready to hunt him down and visit bodily harm on him, but she won't let me. We hang out a lot for a while, then it stops again. Same thing: I run into her out on the town and she introduces me to her fiancee. They move to San Francisco and have a child. End of Story, eh? Yeah, right.

A few years pass and my phone rings. It's her, wanting to "catch up". I'm over her at this point, but am curious to see how she's doing. She's not so cute or gorgeous any more. It turns out that she and her husband have divorced, she's back in Seattle and single motherhood is harder than she expected. Lays on me the most memorable line I've ever heard: "Through all these years, there's one person who's always stood by me and been there for me, and it's Blusco. Maybe we really were meant to be together after all."

Ever had a moment when you realize you've grown up a little or passed a milestone? Telling her "you had plenty of chances, but it's too late now", was one of those for me.

Velvetrose,

You are an intelligent, thoughtful, deep, complicated, feeling, caring woman. Most women, in my experience, are as well.

The problem stems from the fact that women cannot see the forest for the trees. All their female friends are just as feeling/complicated/thoughtful as are they, so most assume men are as well.

Men are rocks. No, really. We are dumb and completely uncomplicated.

Only 2 thoughts EVER enter our heads. "Where's the food/beer?, and Where is/are my/the woman/women?" We don't even think about sleep. We just do it.

Women, as wonderful as they are, are completely incapable of understanding men. It is like technologically advanced aliens studying earth and not recognizing humans as sentient beings.

To whit:

Men are too dumb to realize they are vulnerable. We don't get it. It just seems like a game to women, but it is really stupidity on the man's part.

Men don't have ANY thoughts about feelings, caring. That's womens' territory. Again, women project these emotions onto their men and it seems, to the woman, like men don't care.

If its not about food and/or locating women, men don't think about it at all, and that can sometimes seem like men don't care, or are acting as if they didn't care.

In that brief moment of lucidity where men might actually sense something wrong with "their" woman, this question invariably leads to the "Nothing." answer. At which point we think, "Oh, good. There's nothing wrong, she just told me so. Where's the food/beer?" The moment of lucidity is lost.

If women want that moment to last, they MUST answer honestly. Only then will man switch into FIX IT mode, and actually be made to care.

Men learn VERY early from watching their parents that pursuing that line of questioning only leads to mom screaming at dad about how uncaring and unfeeling he is, and if he truly loved her, he wouldn't have to ask, etc., and dad wondering what the heck just happened. Then wandering off to find beer and maybe a different woman.

Boys are stupid.
Girls are psycho.

Those are the facts.

Perfectly stated!

[sarcasm]Oh man, Osmium has everything figured out[/sarcasm]

Can I get three cheers for ridiculous generalizations?

Sallow was 100% wrong, but Jasminne is 100% right.

And the closer one sex gets to its opposite, Jasmine's theory expands exponentially.

Why are boys stupid?

Edit: Blimey these tags are a rowdy lot!

I came to realize, after doing the whole waking up at 3:30am with a woman in your arms.....that your bed was a hell of a lot more comfortable to sleep in before she got there.

PS- I too am now awaiting the NickMix's "WTF WAS I THINKING!" rant.

K..well, said rant is ready to be rantified. Haha.

WTF WAS I THINKING

I'll come out with more later, need to get the brain off 100% CPU usage.

She's psycho.

At least that is going to be the conclusion I use to keep me from thinking I'm psycho, even though I know I am.

Just a little background, after that night where we almost got it on and I stopped her and took her home and told her to think about what she wanted, I didn't expect to hear from her again, but instead she called me the next day saying she wanted to hang out, and told me she didn't want a relationship, she just wanted someone to have fun with over the summer, I said ok, I can do that.

Now, if you saw us on the street, you would think we were in a relationship. She called me every day when she got off work, and the verbage was "Hey honey, how are you?" and ended with "Goodnight sweety." If you saw us on the street she had her arm around my waist. At movies we're holding hands. But for the most part, these were things she initiated. I'm a pretty shy guy, I don't tend to initiate stuff like that much. SHE put her arm around me. SHE would take my hand. SHE used all the pet names.

Then, the calls slowed down. She suddenly had too much to do, hanging out was practically non-existant for a while. Then we finally went to see a movie. I wanted to test things, so I walked with my hands in my pockets, talking to my buddies (it was a group movie). When we got in the theatre, I kept my hands folded in my lap. After the movie, she came up beside me and put her arm around me, and then in the car grabbed my hand. So I figure, she's showing affection, things are still going.

Then there is nothing for a couple days. I call, no answer, leave a message to say she left a work shirt at my house, she probably needs it, I'll bring it to her whenever she wants. Don't get a response. I send a text a day later, saying "What's up?" No response. A day later, I send another text, "Are you mad at me?" No response. So my friends drag me to her work while she is working to see what's up. She says she didn't get any of the messages, which of course I don't believe at all, but she doesn't act like anything is wrong. I say I gotta go, and start to leave, and get a seemingly angry "What, no hug?" so I turn around, fold up her apron (she was decorating cakes and had frosting all over her) and hug her. Turn to leave, she reaches down, gets chocolate frosting all over hands, and wipes it all over my white shirt, with a look like "haha ****er" on her face. Unsure of what the hell to think or do, I just say "I can't believe you just did that" and leave, looking like a big bum with chocolate all over me.

The next two times I invite her to do something, I get blown off. First time I call her and say "We're gonna rent some movies, want to come?" she says "That sounds like fun, let me call you back" and never called back. The other time, I say I'm having friends over, she says she has to eat dinner with her mom, she'll call back. 4 hours later she calls back, and says she is going to a movie with a friend of hers. Then I get a text 3 hours after that saying "Goodnight nicky." So I'm like, ok too far, and we get into it. I say what the **** is going on, your blowing me off, your acting different, what has changed. She says "the more I think about it, the more I think I can't handle a serious relationship" I say "I thought we decided it was just fun" she says "it seems like you want a relationship" I'm like "......you show the affection" she goes "I'm sorry, I just can't do this anymore" I say "So are we done then" she says "If thats what it takes not to hurt you or make you mad" I'm like "??????? you know my 2 best female friends are ex-girlfriends of mine, I'll see you around"

I won't lie, I'm angry. I'm a pawn in her little game, I'm getting played for a fool. She has no idea what she wants or what she is doing, and I fell for her crap, and then got thrown out when she thought about it too much. She is a smart girl, and can rationalize lots of things very well (like when we got caught by her dad) but she obviously has no grasp on her feelings. She got scared, or tired of me, or something, and made up some crap to get out of it.

Yesterday I left a message inviting her to the county fair, saying a bunch of us were going on Friday, found out she went today with someone else. That pisses me off, but it shouldn't, I need to forget about her.

Girls for me are few and far between, and when they do come along everything seems so wonderful, and then blows up horribly in my face. I'm going into my junior year of college, and this is only the fourth girl I've had "dealings" with, and only the second things have been really affectionate/intimate. I'm starting to get very bitter about these things.

I don't expect most of you to read all this, just needed to straighten out the stream of crap pinging around in my head, and be able to read back over this and figure what the hell I am doing wrong.

Have a nice day!

Only if I can get three cheers for the humorless.

Generalizations are FUN as long as they are not taken seriously. Sheesh, lighten up.

I'm going to have to disagree with your assessment of being a hapless pawn in someone's game. Seriously, you agreed to hook up and have fun over the summer, and when things didn't go quite like you expected, you opted to play games of your own instead of just being natural. What do you think was going through her mind, after not seeing you for a while, and the very next time you get together, your hands are in your pockets and you're making her make all the moves? You don't mention even being responsive, in terms of actively seeking her out physically in response. She probably felt rejected by you.. leading into the further pulling back and thicker games. She probably wanted you to want her, not just accept her when she reached over to your pocketed hand. Hell even in the beginning part of the story, when you say you guys seemed all couple-y, you said you left it to her to do all that stuff. I'm willing to bet she pulled back a bit in the first place to see how you responded, if you stepped forward to fill the gap. I don't mean serious relationshippy, just showing interest.

Affection isn't serious in itself. The stuff she was doing that you seemed to interpret as meaning she wanted an actual relationship doesn't sound out of context at all with what she initially proposed. Enjoying each other for the summer!

In summary, see Jasminne's post. And then

Wait.... Not POSSIBLE....go back and re read thread...Guys do not PLAY games...its not in their nature.