http://www.dollhouseecho.com/

yep, yep, 7 episodes are slotted, expected release is next fall. I almost fainted. I thought he was sooo sick of tv!!!

I cannot tell you how excited I am and even better it's Eliza Dushku, a definite fav of mine.

omg, /snoopy happy dance!!!

Since it's Fox I say we start a pool on how many episodes they get produced before Fox cancels them.

If it's half as good as Firefly I give it 5 episodes. If it sucks great big donkey balls I give it three seasons.

I remember when I first heard about this show... I thought ok, Fox + Joss Whedon = hysterical laughter followed by sobs of 'why god why?'. I mean geez, like that's not a recipe for disaster or anything...

ROFLOL:

'..and I said, "Honey, I accidentally created this Fox show," and she said great.'

http://www.eonline.com/gossip/kristi...d-0abf6afba1f3

and another great line: I went to the bathroom and came back and said, "I figured it out."

muhahaha. trip to the potty ended up with a signed 7 episode deal.

ah, he went with fox because Eliza had just signed a deal there, if I am reading between the lines correctly.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/...d53ac7422bd528


pres. and chairman are both supporting it, so I have some hope.

'It was a really welcomed surprise," Fox entertainment president Kevin Reilly said of getting Whedon's pitch for "Dollhouse."

Reilly and Fox entertainment chairman Peter Liguori called the decision to pick up the show "a layup."

"Joss is not only one of the more innovative show creators out there, he is an unbelievably accomplished showrunner," Liguori said. "It was a creatively inspired idea, and the fact that he wanted to do it with Eliza was the cherry on a sundae."

Translation: Holy ****, after what the guys before us did to his stuff we never thought he'd ever consent to doing anything for us other than throw gasoline on us if we were on fire.

But don't mistake that as evidence that they've actually learned from it or anything.

I may have to end my boycott of new shows on Fox when this airs, but I'm not having high hopes of it lasting more than a month.

/yawn

yay for you folks though.

As we predicted Fox Cancels Dollhouse

I hate you.

This could be in part a product of FOX regretting they axed Firefly, and hence are offering Whedon another shot at producing a new show (since bringing back FF is a logistical impossibility at this point).

I have a dream... a dream that this show will take off into stardom, or at least two seasons... and Fox will then greenlight the possible release of more Firefly.

Tread lightly Fox, for you tread on my dreams.

Hehe Far, I just had to do it.

I have mixed feeling about it. I hope it hits it's stride.

o.O
I agree with you some on the acting part, but emotional impact? They're dolls, the entire freaking point is there is NO emotional impact.

Now I know its gonna be hard people, but you need to not try and watch this show through a Street Fighter Alpha 3 filter.

Havent watched it yet, recorded it with my DVR (which btw I love). How long do you guys give it till its canned by Fox? I mean, the creator and star have both had a failed TV series on Fox, speaking of which how long do you give Nathan Fillion's new show on ABC?

I thought it was terrible, confusing, and boring. Whedon has managed to create a sci-fi action thriller with no sci-fi, no action, and no thrills. There weren't even any good dialogue exchanges which is something Whedon excelled at in Buffy and Firefly.

I thought it was pretty good... definitely not A-grade, but very good, and I will be tuning in when this comes on next...

Also... the near-sighted/asthma thing had me rolling when it was brought up...

I keep expecting the black guy to be selling me car insurance though... dunno why.

Maybe he realized if he makes a great show FOX will cancel it.

I'm with Andurian.

A very shrewd observation.

yeah, I get 'that', but she should have had a little light bulb in her head click on and go hmmmmm...

she didn't so it failed imo

I think it's hilarious they dropped his new show in the exact same timeslot that killed his last show.

Maybe it's a big practical joke, and they'll reveal it on April 1st when Andy Kaufman and Ashton Kutcher come on to PUNK! everybody.

I had totally skipped any interest in Dollhouse till this week. This is a genuinely creepy and entertaining show. Best first two episodes of a show that I have seen in a decade. Great potential. Fox will screw it up...

Edit: didn't know the Firefly guy was behind it. Now that you mention it you can really see the river and brother in episode two.

There is no good guys in this show though. Cept maybe FBI guy. But the brilliant part is her handler is sympathetic. But you step back you realize there's nothing redeeming about his job. That is the creepy part. Making someone like that sympathetic...

episode 2>>> episode 1

much better and well rounded. Almost movie quality imo.

Phe and I watched the premiere.

I was unimpressed.

I say that with great disappointment, but with little surprise. There were the aforementioned behind-the-scene troubles, with the scrapping of the pilot and creation of a new one, but all that matters is what ends up onscreen. In the case of "Ghost," the first episode, it was a poor substitute, and I shudder to think that what I bore witness to was better than the original, planned pilot.

The magic of Joss Whedon lies in his characters and the incredible writing. Neither element of which were exhibited in that pilot. I'll put aside my questioning of the viability of a show wherein the main character is essentially blank slate every week (the promos made it quite clear that Echo will begin to remember, but just how much will we care, if it happens so slowly?). Whedon works generally start off slow. In fact, virtually every individual season of a Whedon show began ploddingly. It's almost as if he has to warm up. But even with the earliest episodes of Buffy, while the show didn't find its footing until the second season, the seeds of greatness were there. I felt nothing of that in "Ghost."

The plot was utterly terrible, and incredibly contrived. The mental amalgamation implanted into Echo just happened to contain a bit of personality that was personally abused by the exact same kidnapper that winds up kidnapping the millionaire's daughter? Asthma, really? What an incredibly lazy way to sideline her while the bad guys made off with the girl, so as to put her in a place to rescue said girl.

The characters were completely blank, and I'm not just talking about the ones who have their memories wiped. They were exposition machines with legs, and as the people running the Dollhouse seem to highly guard their secrecy, why have they not shitcanned the ex-cop handler, who represents a rather obvious threat to that?

There's also the matter of Eliza Dushku. She was fantastic as Faith on Buffy, and while she's wonderful to look at for an hour, I do admit to some serious misgivings about her ability to tackle so many different roles. Dushku plays the tomboy exceptionally well, but I don't know how far her dramatic muscles will stretch.

I nitpick. But I do so out of love.

Part of it may lie in the fact that Dollhouse is a relatively straightforward show, rather than a witty genre deconstruction like Buffy or Angel or Firefly. Whedon has stated as much. But based on this, he seems to work best when he's turning assumptions on their heads and picking things apart.

But by far the biggest problem I had with it was that it felt like a Fox show, not a Joss Whedon show. It was simply a generic sci fi-ish show, a Dark Angel, or Tru Calling (Hi Eliza!). History has proven that if I put my faith in Joss, he will reward it. Right now, however, it needs to do some serious ramping up to live up to Whedon's legacy.

The second episode definitely showed promise for the series that I didn't feel in the first. Sadly, however, the main character's story remained the absolute least interesting thing in the piece, while the intercut bits of past were far more captivating. Also, again, the plotting of the Echo story seemed very contrived, though it seemed to have been hinted that the antagonist of the Echo plotline was in the service of another, more powerful force (though it didn't seem to me to be Alpha). If that's the case, it makes it much easier to swallow.

If they keep the same forward momentum contained between the first episode and the second, they should be ship-shape in five or six episodes.

And ironically, it seems Steven DeKnight wrote and directed more Jossly than Joss did last week. I have a feeling the pilot's weaknesses stem from the Fox rewrite mandates; I'd be unsurprised to find that the original pilot was two hours, rather than one, and did a more even job of setting up the characters and the story, rather than compressing everything into half the time and forcing a bunch of crummy exposition.

I think Whedon can only write the same characters again and again, even though I like the characters. We've got River and brother Simon (Echo and handler), we've got Wash (techie), there's even Mal and awkward love interest Inara (FBI guy and his neighbor from episode 2) all be it slightly modified.

Also, FarSky, it seemed really explicit that it was actually Alpha who was the puppet master behind episode 2. The hunter talks about him saying how special Echo is and the fake park ranger was killed in EXACTLY Alpha's established method from earlier in the episode.

I liked the touch at the end with Echo doing the shoulder to the wheel thing, even if I felt that it's an idiotic sounding phrase and the motion looks like some kind of autistic twitch or something.

Well, I thought episode 2 was far better than episode 1. It just fit better, it seemed like the first was um, heavily modified to fit Fox's ideas of what really sells people on shows to put it politely. Y'know, kind of like a certain other series. So I'm not getting attached. I'm hearing this sound in the background of a man loading a gun so I'm not bonding with the little puppy Fox gave us...

Glad I'm not the one pointing that out. I always get crucified by Whedonites for pointing out his standard cast of characters :/

While I really do love the shows he's done, at the same time I've always been confused by the praise for the dialogue he writes. I like his characters (usually), I just cringe when they have a conversation.

I havent watched eppisode two but the first eppisode rubbed me off as the same story of river in firefly, just in a different setting of course.

Well, Frank Miller is incapable of writing anything other than hardboiled testosterone filled action/noir no matter where he sets his stories... he just does it well enough that I still read it, although I am aware of his limitations, I've just stopped expecting to read a lighthearted comedy in his works. Similarly there's certain things I expect out of a Joss Whedon show, the first episode felt odd, not quite there, the second I liked more.

I'll have to agree with a lot of the sentiment here ... it just doesn't feel "Whedon" right now. I never cared for Buffy (because of my intense hatred for Sarah Michelle Gellar) but I absolutely loved Angel, Firefly, and Serenity. Then came his stint on Astonishing X-Men which made me a lifelong fan (oh! And Dr. Horrible). Right now, Dollhouse is ok, but it's definitely missing something. And I must be the only one that doesn't think it parallels River/Simon from Firefly. Oh well.

I'm willing to stick with it for awhile to see if it can all come together. I really enjoy the actor from BSG and hope he becomes a more directly involved character (actually tied in with Echo). My biggest problem right now is the two in charge of the Dollhouse (the blond guy and the priss). I can't stand their look, their characters, or their acting. When he was telling Echo off, I just groaned ... it was painful to watch.

I am digging the handler and Echo's relationship though. It's very Gunslinger Girl.

Oh! And Alpha ... meh. Right now I just giggle every time they mention him 'cause I think of Serpentor from G.I. Joe and how he was a composite of all the world's greatest kings. I gather from what Techie was saying that Alpha has a composite personality from left over memory wipes of various killers.

Episode 2 is on hulu and Fox on demand you should definately be watching it. It is head and shoulders better than 1.


I agree on the leadership of dollhouse. They are very cardboard cutout. Very weak characters.

I read a hulu comment about isn't this show sexiest to farm women out! (not about your comment just adding unto the thread) I thought man this person does not get it. The doll house "institution" is not the good guys in this show. These are the exploiters. These people are the long run protagonist of Echo. They control her and abuse her as an indentured servant. Your not supposed to like them. I just laughed cause the person obviously didn't get that.

In some ways its conception is gritter than Firefox though not its implementation. In serenity you had it easy. If the character lived in the ship they were a good guy and you were supposed to like them. In doll house they set the story as if it were in the ship, but these guys arnt supposed to be liked. This is not GI Joe versus Cobra.

Though the whole sex for money thing? I kind of buy it cause you cant change the nature of people, but it seems like a waste of perfectly good technology. I would buy it more if the brain wash dude got caught laying down a track for a good time but without permission, that is something that would happen in the real world (unfortunately). But I have trouble believing anyone could be paying enough money for a companion to justify the cost of this operation and getting in government sanction. I mean these guys are the perfect spys.


The reason I became very bullish on the series is in 2 he made it more complicated and naunced. I worry that the show doesn't even have the outline of a story as complicated as the not so gritty "pretender". Atleast in the pretender the institute had decades of secrets to play with. I want there to be an overarching umbrella authority with shadowy motives, I want echo to learn to override these memory grafts, I want more intrigue. But 2 convinced me that just cause he didn't lay it all out in day 1 doesnt mean its not coming.

So I am bullish.

They definately need to make that lady controlling the whole operation a little more real and gritty.

Well, if it's so sexist.. why do they have male dolls? It's all well and good to shout "omg, exploitation of women!!! Sexist!!!!" but when they're also exploiting men... yeah, that person's missing the point quite a bit.

the leadership is unknown. I think the point of view is Echo's, so as she we will get to know them. I think that's the 'turn' we get because the science geek is definitely not a good guy. He treats them like puppets, soulless drones. The lead female leader is an unsympthatic character. There is no greater good going on from what we have seen. It was made clear this was all money in episode 2 in her concern about Echo and the guy taking her out.

I think it's just a slow starter and I have much bigger hope now after episode 2 for the series. They are just setting up the chess pieces on the board at this time.

They've announced who's playing Alpha.

Spoilers below...

SWEET!

Imagine that word to have at least four sylables.

omg!omg! omg!

episode 3 spoilers

It's bad that it took me till last night's episode to notice that the doc with the cut up face is Fred from Angel, isn't it?

Eh, just watched the new episode. They need new writers. The dialog is abysmal. I mean, I don't think Whedon is the visionary director that a lot of people seem to think he is, but he does usually have entertaining dialog. Tycho's little blurb is a bit harsh, I'd say, and strikes me as as much a reaction against the fans as it is against the show itself; the show isn't great, hell it isn't even good, but it's about par the course as far as television shows go and, conceptually, it's something different, even if in execution it's turning out to be as successful as an aborted fetus sliding down a polished hospital hallway.

Im in the middle of episode 2 on Hulu and I agree with everyone that says it is an echo(no pun) of all of Whedon's previous works, especially Firefly. The FBI guy going after Dollhouse seems to be Mal, and even looks like him. Handler is a mixture of Operative + Simon, and Echo is obviously River. Oh, and the programmer is Wash.

I think the thing we are all looking for is the humor that is in everything Whedon does. This doesnt have it from what I can tell. So Im starting to wonder, if we took Joss Whedon off of the credits, how would we all like it? As I said, Im only through 1 and a half episodes, but so far its got me interested enough that Ill keep tabs on it, but Im not invested yet. Theres a chance I could be, but theres a chance it could pull a Heroes and become utter crap(though it took Heroes 2-3 seasons to do that, depending on who you ask).

I tried to watch episode 3 while playing scrabble and I wasn't feeling it at all. Maybe not paying enough attention. This center is just to ordinairy.



On a side note next sci-fi show I want to see:
X-Com UFO defense.

That would make a great show. Its about a team with elite ops and scientist (got a little SG-1 there) that on a moments notice are called to go to UFO landing sights. And they are creepy sights and nobody knows what is going on at first (a little X-files there). I think it would make a better TV show than a game.

Well, I still prefer it to say Heroes for the last two seasons. I keep watching for hopes that it's like a lot of starts - takes a bit of time to build up some steam. Now, if it doesn't... my interest does not stay as strong if there's nothing for me to be interested in obviously - I mean when I um, lost interest in Lost I dropped it fast. I hear it's better now but once bitten, twice gonna-wait-for-the-****ing-show-to-end-before-I-give-it-another-go.

Also while Joss Whedon is generally a good writer (ok, I didn't like his X-Men arc but thought his Runaway storyline was awesome) some of the best episodes were at least co-written with some of the other writers who aren't working with him on this series so far as far as I know.

Neither Buffy nor Angel really started to hit for me till their second seasons. Dollhouse so far has been at least passable enough to keep me watching and see where it goes. Of course I hope it picks up, but based on Buffy and Angel I'm not rushing anything. Of course Firefly was awesome off the bat....